Christian Pacifism, can Christians go to war?

[Grappler]

You are a Christian right? You live in this nation right? Godless nation? I fight for you, you are why this nation is not Godless.

Yes. Yes. Yes. How are you fighting for me?? Let me be a little more specific. The leadership of this nation is Godless....capital G because they do have a god. Many people living in this country qualify as Godless as well. Wouldn't you agree? You must be in the military? How do you like this "great" nations military accepting the Godless lifestyle of homosexuality? How do you expect God to bless your military when it's leaders are evil?

I come at it from a different perspective than you. God Blesses this nation because He has spiritually mature believers residing here. He blesses Washington DC because He has a spiritually mature believer that cleans their toilets. He Blesses the Military because He has spiritually mature believers in that institution.

If there were 300,000 homosexuals in the military and one spiritually mature believer, God would bless the Military.

It is with everything, no matter How corrupt the institution is .....As goes the believer,as goes the institution.

If you do not realize that the military is fighting for you,I do not know what to tell you.

I would rather be in a foxhole with a drunk,smoking,high homosexual that would die for His God given country then a christian who was whining about violence and how he hates his country.

Hates his country? Where'd that come from?

Yeah i didn't know where he got that one from either...just making stuff up i suppose.

 

[Grappler]

I come at it from a different perspective than you. God Blesses this nation because He has spiritually mature believers residing here. He blesses Washington DC because He has a spiritually mature believer that cleans their toilets. He Blesses the Military because He has spiritually mature believers in that institution.

If there were 300,000 homosexuals in the military and one spiritually mature believer, God would bless the Military.

It is with everything, no matter How corrupt the institution is .....As goes the believer,as goes the institution.

If you do not realize that the military is fighting for you,I do not know what to tell you.

I would rather be in a foxhole with a drunk,smoking,high homosexual that would die for His God given country then a christian who was whining about violence and how he hates his country.

So what about the Christians that live in say....China? Does God bless China because of those people? What about those Christians that live in Iran? Does God bless that nation as well? That is right you don't know what to tell me about the military fighting for me because that is a bunch of bunk.lol The military won't defend the US southern border but it sure will kill some villagers in Afghanistan or Iraq. Your last sentence shows your true colors...you may want to edit that one or delete it all together.

How much do you know about China and what American Chrisitans are doing to help those Chrisitans/people know the true Gospel message rather than the "government approved message" in the "government regulated and registured" Churches?

I just came back from a prayer meeting for a group of pastors (mine included) who are in a remote area of China trying to teach pastors the true gospel message. They need our prayers.

I do believe God has blessed our nation with prosperity and freedom so that we can help other countries such as China know about Jesus Christ.

Probably as much as you do....considering we are talking about over a billion people. Did you know that there is an "underground church" in China of true believers? Since there are possibly a million Christians living in China i wonder if God blesses the whole nation because of them as Mr. gr8grace was implying? God could have chosen another country as well. Don't be too proud of your country...especially a country that has fallen away from God as this one. Patriotism can be a form of idolatry if you are not careful.

 

[Grappler]

Like I've said.....thank God for the pagans who save us from the Hellish nightmare individuals like this would have us live in.

Wow you just gave Webster a new definition for the word oxymoron...lets take a look at the new definition of an oxymoron- A professing Christian who gives thanks to God for pagans.

Perhaps you have not followed the thread,some say that Christians cannot have any part in using force to oppose evil,since we have so much evil it is safe to assume that whatever these Christians have been doing apart from force to oppose evil has failed,and since according to some it is not possible for true christians to be policemen or in the Military that leaves the pagans so my thanks go to them for their service as policeman and soldiers to stem the tide of evil doers....true Christians I suppose I have nothing to thank them for.

Jesus told Pilate that my kingdom is not of this world...if it were my followers would fight for me. Maybe we should try fighting evil by obeying Jesus.

 

[Eugene]

God uses the people of this world to achieve His goals.

To me you nailed it Reba.

Romans 9:17 "For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth." Did I hear it right; did God say He put Pharaoh in that position?

Daniel 4:17 "This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men."

 

[Butch5]

So your would offer your wife your child to rapist? to the murder? You do realize this is what your are saying.. The creeps of this world should have not been stopped by physical force? The cops in Boston were wrong to go after the bomber they way they did?


What world do you live in? There is a difference between martyred and marterdumb .


Some folks are coward enough to live at the expense of others and take pride in doing so.

I don't know if this was to me or not, however, no one is saying to offer anyone to anyone. Let me ask you a question, who is better able to protect my family, me or God?

God uses the people of this world to achieve His goals. He doesn't need Christians to oppose His teachings to achieve His Goals. We can see from the OT that He destroyed whole nations without any help from anyone, surely He can handle a rapist or murderer without the Christians help. Would you agree?

I believe you answered your own question I underlined it.

People of the world, not Christians.

 

[gr8grace]

Leviticus 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination. 1 Corinthians 6:9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality.

Urk,

Which is worse. A homosexual that does not know the truth or a believer that knows the truth and Gossips?

 

[Butch5]

Like I've said.....thank God for the pagans who save us from the Hellish nightmare individuals like this would have us live in.

Wow you just gave Webster a new definition for the word oxymoron...lets take a look at the new definition of an oxymoron- A professing Christian who gives thanks to God for pagans.

Perhaps you have not followed the thread,some say that Christians cannot have any part in using force to oppose evil,since we have so much evil it is safe to assume that whatever these Christians have been doing apart from force to oppose evil has failed,and since according to some it is not possible for true christians to be policemen or in the Military that leaves the pagans so my thanks go to them for their service as policeman and soldiers to stem the tide of evil doers....true Christians I suppose I have nothing to thank them for.

Likewise, since there is so much evil the use of force has done nothing to stem the tide.

 

[Butch5]

A simple question, is God able to protect you? If so, does He need your help?

 

[gr8grace]

Greetings to you [MENTION=95330]gr8grace[/MENTION]

If there were 300,000 homosexuals in the military and one spiritually mature believer, God would bless the Military.

With this in mind, can you remember how God treated Sodom when Lot and his family were living there?

2 Peter 2:7 But God also rescued Lot out of Sodom because he was a righteous man who was sick of the shameful immorality of the wicked people around him.

How many righteous were left in Sodom when He took out Lot and His wife? As goes the believer.....as goes the institution.(city,nation,Government,peoples,states.)

ALL were unrighteous in Sodom, He did not destroy until He had ALL of His believers out.

 

[reba]

So your would offer your wife your child to rapist? to the murder? You do realize this is what your are saying.. The creeps of this world should have not been stopped by physical force? The cops in Boston were wrong to go after the bomber they way they did?


What world do you live in? There is a difference between martyred and marterdumb .


Some folks are coward enough to live at the expense of others and take pride in doing so.

I don't know if this was to me or not, however, no one is saying to offer anyone to anyone. Let me ask you a question, who is better able to protect my family, me or God?

God uses the people of this world to achieve His goals. He doesn't need Christians to oppose His teachings to achieve His Goals. We can see from the OT that He destroyed whole nations without any help from anyone, surely He can handle a rapist or murderer without the Christians help. Would you agree?

I believe you answered your own question I underlined it.

People of the world, not Christians.

Here is a very short list of names.... Paul, Peter, Joni, Tbow, Drew, Billy Graham, Butch5, Corri ten booms family, Brother Andrew, My dad, The nameless folks we do hear about via the news who do XYZ as unto the Lord.. You are the first Christian I have ever heard that says God does use Christians.

 

[Atonement]

How many righteous were left in Sodom when He took out Lot and His wife? As goes the believer.....as goes the institution.(city,nation,Government,peoples,states .)

ALL were unrighteous in Sodom, He did not destroy until He had ALL of His believers out.

The point is. God will save His own, but not at the expense of sinners

 

[Butch5]

I believe you answered your own question I underlined it.

People of the world, not Christians.

Here is a very short list of names.... Paul, Peter, Joni, Tbow, Drew, Billy Graham, Butch5, Corri ten booms family, Brother Andrew, My dad, The nameless folks we do hear about via the news who do XYZ as unto the Lord.. You are the first Christian I have ever heard that says God does use Christians.

I assume you meant doesn't use Christians. The point is context. We are talking about war and violence, not reaching the lost.

 

[gr8grace]

Like I've said.....thank God for the pagans who save us from the Hellish nightmare individuals like this would have us live in.

Wow you just gave Webster a new definition for the word oxymoron...lets take a look at the new definition of an oxymoron- A professing Christian who gives thanks to God for pagans.

Perhaps you have not followed the thread,some say that Christians cannot have any part in using force to oppose evil,since we have so much evil it is safe to assume that whatever these Christians have been doing apart from force to oppose evil has failed,and since according to some it is not possible for true christians to be policemen or in the Military that leaves the pagans so my thanks go to them for their service as policeman and soldiers to stem the tide of evil doers....true Christians I suppose I have nothing to thank them for.

Likewise, since there is so much evil the use of force has done nothing to stem the tide.

What do you mean stem the tide? The scriptures say that we will NOT stem the tide. By force or by smoking the peace pipe. We ain't fixen this place. Jesus comes back because we CANNOT fix it. He has to fix it. I do have to admit that Force prolongs His coming, prolly so He can get more people saved. Kumbaya my Lord, would have ushered in the second coming long ago.

 

[Mike S]

Like I've said.....thank God for the pagans who save us from the Hellish nightmare individuals like this would have us live in.

Wow you just gave Webster a new definition for the word oxymoron...lets take a look at the new definition of an oxymoron- A professing Christian who gives thanks to God for pagans.

Perhaps you have not followed the thread,some say that Christians cannot have any part in using force to oppose evil,since we have so much evil it is safe to assume that whatever these Christians have been doing apart from force to oppose evil has failed,and since according to some it is not possible for true christians to be policemen or in the Military that leaves the pagans so my thanks go to them for their service as policeman and soldiers to stem the tide of evil doers....true Christians I suppose I have nothing to thank them for.

Likewise, since there is so much evil the use of force has done nothing to stem the tide.

Tolkien has a hauntingly beautiful phrase that speaks to our condition as Christians in a world dominated by earthly evil, “I am a Christian… so that I do not expect ‘history’ to be anything but a ‘long defeat’—though it contains… some samples or glimpses of final victory.â€

Fighting the long defeat. We fight against evil, spiritually or physically, and sometimes win battles, but evil always rises again. We don't know how this chapter of the history between Christ's resurrection and His return ends, but we fight on nonetheless to defend the good, the true, and the beautiful and, we pray, to bring about yet another sample of final victory, another glimpse of grace, another taste of the certain Kingdom of love and light that will have no end.

 

[P31Woman]

I come at it from a different perspective than you. God Blesses this nation because He has spiritually mature believers residing here. He blesses Washington DC because He has a spiritually mature believer that cleans their toilets. He Blesses the Military because He has spiritually mature believers in that institution.

If there were 300,000 homosexuals in the military and one spiritually mature believer, God would bless the Military.

It is with everything, no matter How corrupt the institution is .....As goes the believer,as goes the institution.

If you do not realize that the military is fighting for you,I do not know what to tell you.

I would rather be in a foxhole with a drunk,smoking,high homosexual that would die for His God given country then a christian who was whining about violence and how he hates his country.

So what about the Christians that live in say....China? Does God bless China because of those people? What about those Christians that live in Iran? Does God bless that nation as well? That is right you don't know what to tell me about the military fighting for me because that is a bunch of bunk.lol The military won't defend the US southern border but it sure will kill some villagers in Afghanistan or Iraq. Your last sentence shows your true colors...you may want to edit that one or delete it all together.

How much do you know about China and what American Chrisitans are doing to help those Chrisitans/people know the true Gospel message rather than the "government approved message" in the "government regulated and registured" Churches?

I just came back from a prayer meeting for a group of pastors (mine included) who are in a remote area of China trying to teach pastors the true gospel message. They need our prayers.

I do believe God has blessed our nation with prosperity and freedom so that we can help other countries such as China know about Jesus Christ.

Probably as much as you do....considering we are talking about over a billion people. Did you know that there is an "underground church" in China of true believers? Since there are possibly a million Christians living in China i wonder if God blesses the whole nation because of them as Mr. gr8grace was implying? God could have chosen another country as well. Don't be too proud of your country...especially a country that has fallen away from God as this one. Patriotism can be a form of idolatry if you are not careful.

Yes I know about the undergound Church. I had friends who years ago could not tell anyone where they were missionaries. They used false identities to work in that country.

I agree with you that God can and does use another countries to help spread the Good News. I am very aware of the fact God can remove his hedge of protection from this nation. I don't think it's right for you to imply gr8grace is even close to idolarty. That's not permitted on most Chrisitan forums.

I thank God every day for allowing me to live in this nation with it's freedoms and wealth. I feel grateful and humbled by the responsibility.

 

[P31Woman]

A simple question, is God able to protect you? If so, does He need your help?

You never did answer my question.

Do you have lockes on your house doors and windows?

Do you take medication or visit a doctor or been in the hospital?

 

[Grappler]

How much do you know about China and what American Chrisitans are doing to help those Chrisitans/people know the true Gospel message rather than the "government approved message" in the "government regulated and registured" Churches?

I just came back from a prayer meeting for a group of pastors (mine included) who are in a remote area of China trying to teach pastors the true gospel message. They need our prayers.

I do believe God has blessed our nation with prosperity and freedom so that we can help other countries such as China know about Jesus Christ.

Probably as much as you do....considering we are talking about over a billion people. Did you know that there is an "underground church" in China of true believers? Since there are possibly a million Christians living in China i wonder if God blesses the whole nation because of them as Mr. gr8grace was implying? God could have chosen another country as well. Don't be too proud of your country...especially a country that has fallen away from God as this one. Patriotism can be a form of idolatry if you are not careful.

Yes I know about the undergound Chuch. I had friends who years ago could not tell anyone where they were missionaries. They used false identities to work in that country.

I agree with you that God can and does use another countries to help spread the Good News. I am very aware of the fact God can remove his hedge of protection from this nation. I don't think it's right for you to imply gragrace is even close to idolarty. That's not permitted on most Chrisitan forums.

I thank God every day for allowing me to live in this nation with it's freedoms and wealth. I feel grateful and humbled by the responsibility.

I don't think it is very moral of you to say that i am calling others idolaters. If you read again what i said you will see that i said that patriotism can be a form of idolatry. That would apply to anyone...and i stand by that statement until death. I thank God everyday for all of my blessings as well...something we can agree on.

 

[P31Woman]

How much do you know about China and what American Chrisitans are doing to help those Chrisitans/people know the true Gospel message rather than the "government approved message" in the "government regulated and registured" Churches?

I just came back from a prayer meeting for a group of pastors (mine included) who are in a remote area of China trying to teach pastors the true gospel message. They need our prayers.

I do believe God has blessed our nation with prosperity and freedom so that we can help other countries such as China know about Jesus Christ.

Probably as much as you do....considering we are talking about over a billion people. Did you know that there is an "underground church" in China of true believers? Since there are possibly a million Christians living in China i wonder if God blesses the whole nation because of them as Mr. gr8grace was implying? God could have chosen another country as well. Don't be too proud of your country...especially a country that has fallen away from God as this one. Patriotism can be a form of idolatry if you are not careful.

Yes I know about the undergound Chuch. I had friends who years ago could not tell anyone where they were missionaries. They used false identities to work in that country.

I agree with you that God can and does use another countries to help spread the Good News. I am very aware of the fact God can remove his hedge of protection from this nation. I don't think it's right for you to imply gragrace is even close to idolarty. That's not permitted on most Chrisitan forums.

I thank God every day for allowing me to live in this nation with it's freedoms and wealth. I feel grateful and humbled by the responsibility.

I don't think it is very moral of you to say that i am calling others idolaters. If you read again what i said you will see that i said that patriotism can be a form of idolatry. That would apply to anyone...and i stand by that statement until death. I thank God everyday for all of my blessings as well...something we can agree on.

We are not stupid.

BTW, odd that you call this "your country".........hum..........

 

[Grappler]

Perhaps you have not followed the thread,some say that Christians cannot have any part in using force to oppose evil,since we have so much evil it is safe to assume that whatever these Christians have been doing apart from force to oppose evil has failed,and since according to some it is not possible for true christians to be policemen or in the Military that leaves the pagans so my thanks go to them for their service as policeman and soldiers to stem the tide of evil doers....true Christians I suppose I have nothing to thank them for.

Likewise, since there is so much evil the use of force has done nothing to stem the tide.

What do you mean stem the tide? The scriptures say that we will NOT stem the tide. By force or by smoking the peace pipe. We ain't fixen this place. Jesus comes back because we CANNOT fix it. He has to fix it. I do have to admit that Force prolongs His coming, prolly so He can get more people saved. Kumbaya my Lord, would have ushered in the second coming long ago.

So you condemn yourself with your own words. You say the "tide" can NOT be stemmed and then you turn around and support Christians going to war and killing. Sounds like another oxymoron.

 

[Guest]

Leviticus 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination. 1 Corinthians 6:9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality.

Urk,

Which is worse. A homosexual that does not know the truth or a believer that knows the truth and Gossips?

They're both sin. Why are you asking this.