Christian Tolerance?

[Yaqub]

On virtually every Christian forum in which I have participated there is at least one person who does nothing but to continually find reasons why my religion is false. They will typically pick out some point or other and then pretend to have a greater understanding of classical Arabic than some of us might have and continue to a erroneous conclusion which they beat us over the head with. Other times they will attempt to interpret the Qur'an in a way which is contrary to true meaning and try to defeat us with that. More often they will use the Bible to indicate how wrong we are. They fail to understand that we do not consider the Bible to be an authoritative work and that it is thus of no value when used in such a way.

This does not anger me so much as it amazes me. Why, I wonder, is this so important to some of you? We Muslims do not engage in any similar behavior against Christians. We try our best to respect all of you. Muslims honor Jesus and we try very much to follow His great example in life. This example specifically tells us to be humble and giving towards others. Forgiveness and non-violence are of paramount importance. If a Muslim knows this why do some Christians not?

Christianity and Islam do not compete. We are supposed to be brothers in God. Is it only spiritual immaturity which inspires this foolishness or is there something even more profound?

What I would like to discuss is the reasons some of you might have for attempting to undermine my religion. I don't spend my time dreaming up reasons why Christianity is false. I have better things to do. Don't you? Also I'd like to know what you think God's reaction to your behavior might be.

What, I wonder, will those Christians who do these things say when they meet Muslims in heaven? Imagine their bulging eyes and mouths open in surprise when they find that God has no religious preference whatsoever.

Sheesh you guys.... grow up already.

Blessings,

Yaqub

 

[Mike]

Forgiveness and non-violence are of paramount importance. If a Muslim knows this why do some Christians not?

Are you suggesting all Muslims consider non-violence of paramount importance? All of them?

If you said some Muslims do, your point would be better received.

Christianity and Islam do not compete. We are supposed to be brothers in God. Is it only spiritual immaturity which inspires this foolishness or is there something even more profound?

You're right. They don't compete. Christianity is set apart from all other religions, as we would say there is only One Truth, and Christianity is it. Christians are Brothers in Christ. While we are told to give the reason for the hope that lies within, we are not to allow other religions to blur the lines of Truth.

What I would like to discuss is the reasons some of you might have for attempting to undermine my religion. I don't spend my time dreaming up reasons why Christianity is false. I have better things to do.

I hope you stick to this statement and not argue reasons why Christianity is false. This is a Christian board you've become a member of. We didn't go to a Muslim board and make arguments to undermine your faith. You came to ours. While people of other faiths are welcome to join in on our conversations, this IS a Christian board. We're having discussions based on our Christian faith with each other, so I don't believe we're going out of our way to undermine yours.

If you can constructively share your point of view, we'll be happy to engage in conversation with you.

By the way, welcome to Christianforums.net!

Mike

 

[westtexas]

More often they will use the Bible to indicate how wrong we are. They fail to understand that we do not consider the Bible to be an authoritative work and that it is thus of no value when used in such a way.

I'm not sure how you feel you can go to any Christian forum,as you have said you do, and NOT expect us to use the Bible. It is our authority and the Qu'ran will have no authority or value in a theological discussion on ANY CHRISTIAN FORUM.
Westtexas

 

[Tina]

.

What, I wonder, will those Christians who do these things say when they meet Muslims in heaven ? Imagine their bulging eyes and mouths open in surprise when they find that God has no religious preference whatsoever.

Sorry to disappoint you, but that ain't gonna happen .... Unless the Muslims renounce your god and religion , and turn to Jesus Christ as personal Lord and Savior and the Son of God .... Only then will we get to meet and shake hands in heaven some day.

Otherwise you'd sure be left with bulging eyes and mouths wide open in surprise when you discover to your dismay that you'll be burning in hell instead of enjoying paradise with the Christians because God DOES take into account what false "religion" and false god you had been following !

 

[Yaqub]

Wow!

There are some Muslims, a small but vocal and visible minority, who pray to God but listen to Satan. These are not men of God. Now that you know that we needn't mention it again. Right?

Let's see... Where to begin.

It is "witnessing" that you engage in when you tell us that our God is false? The usual reason for witnessing is to bring others to the truth. When you begin by insulting those of other faiths, telling them they are wrong, do you really think that they are going to be receptive to what you say? Are we to want to become Christians after being subjected to such language?

Yes this is a Christian forum. What better place to discover what motivates Christians? Easy that.

There is a topic title just below mine on the listing wherein a Christian attempts to tell Muslims that "allah" is the name or, derived from a pagan god and we thusly do not worship the same god as you do. The entire premise of the post is most inaccurate and just plain wrong. I question both the reason for the post and the level of awareness of the poster. Please read it. What have we Muslims done to you that provokes such derisive statements? Why can't Christians tend to their own sins and leave us to ours? If you visit a Muslim forum you will be hard pressed to find any postings which portray Christianity in an unfortunate way. This is because we revere Jesus and to insult His legacy is wrong. God will instruct us in the errors of our ways.

Is it too much to ask in return the same courtesy?

Blessings in Jesus' Name,

Yaqub

 

[Pard]

You should be pleased when a Christian tries to turn you from your false religion. It is because of our love that we even attempt such tasks.

So, you are welcome...

 

[Tina]

.

It is "witnessing" that you engage in when you tell us that our God is false? The usual reason for witnessing is to bring others to the truth. When you begin by insulting those of other faiths, telling them they are wrong, do you really think that they are going to be receptive to what you say? Are we to want to become Christians after being subjected to such language?

This is a debate forum, what do you expect ?
To agree with you when we know you are wrong ???

Yes this is a Christian forum. What better place to discover what motivates Christians? Easy that.

It's the TRUTH that motivates Christians .... even if those truths hurt some non-Christians.

There is a topic title just below mine on the listing wherein a Christian attempts to tell Muslims that "allah" is the name or, derived from a pagan god and we thusly do not worship the same god as you do.

And I agree with the poster because as I mentioned in that thread, the Allah of the Quran commanded Abraham to sacrifice his son Ishmael, while the God of the Bible commanded Abraham to sacrifice his son Isaac ... God does not contradict Himself. Allah is clearly NOT the God of Abraham and the Bible.

If you visit a Muslim forum you will be hard pressed to find any postings which portray Christianity in an unfortunate way. This is because we revere Jesus and to insult His legacy is wrong. God will instruct us in the errors of our ways.

It's great to know that Muslims have nothing much negative to portray Christianity in an unfortunate way.... because Christianity and Jesus Christ is the Truth !


:amen

 

[PouringRain]

We Muslims do not engage in any similar behavior against Christians.

Welcome to the forum.

Sorry, I stopped reading your post when I got to this line that I quoted. Do you not visit many Islamic forums?

Otherwise, I agree with you..... (I think. Since I didn't read your whole post.) :D

 

[watchman F]

Of course Christians are going to believe your religion is false. If they didn;t they would be muslim.

 

[PouringRain]

Of course Christians are going to believe your religion is false. If they didn;t they would be muslim.

Not necessarily...

 

[jasoncran]

Of course Christians are going to believe your religion is false. If they didn;t they would be muslim.

or u.u. which believes that all relgious have a equal amount of truth.

 

[Free]

More often they will use the Bible to indicate how wrong we are. They fail to understand that we do not consider the Bible to be an authoritative work and that it is thus of no value when used in such a way.

Christianity and Islam do not compete. We are supposed to be brothers in God. Is it only spiritual immaturity which inspires this foolishness or is there something even more profound?

And is it spiritual immaturity or maturity that does not recognize the authority of Scripture? If they truly don't compete, why would you consider the Qur'an authoritative and not the Holy Bible?

What I would like to discuss is the reasons some of you might have for attempting to undermine my religion. I don't spend my time dreaming up reasons why Christianity is false. I have better things to do. Don't you? Also I'd like to know what you think God's reaction to your behavior might be.

Well, I would quote from Holy Scripture on the importance of truth and standing up for it, that there is one Gospel and one name by which we are saved, that Jesus is God Incarnate who died and rose again as a propitiatory sacrifice that we might be reconciled for God, and also show the biblical mandate for standing against false teachers and false Christs, but you wouldn't consider it authoritative.

What, I wonder, will those Christians who do these things say when they meet Muslims in heaven? Imagine their bulging eyes and mouths open in surprise when they find that God has no religious preference whatsoever.

At this point I must question how much you actually know about both Islam and Christianity. One who studies religions knows that every religion is fundamentally different at the core and therefore irreconcilable. There will either be Muslims or Christians or neither in heaven, not both.

 

[Mike]

As Salaam Wa Laykum Yaqub,

I have been a member of this forum for a few months and I have found only a few members who regularly insult Islam and use the tactics you talked about in the OP. I simply do not respond to their posts, youve met them already, Ahlui is the main insulter, mdo throws some low blows with his symantics argument, tina has used some questionable sources of islamic knowledge to further her objectives. But even the worst offenders here HAVE to have some honorable intentions behind their actions, we must not and are forbidden by Allah, to retaliate in with equal recourse. We must simply try our best to dispel what ever false notion they are peddaling and move on, if they continue to debate after sufficient proofs have been shown, our hands are tied and we must leave them for Allah, for he alone is Al Hadi.

We as Muslims must expect that they will go to their bible for guidance, and since we deny the biggest part of their religion, they will find fault in us for that. that is to be expected.

For the most part, on this forum, people will engage you in a respectable manner, they may say some blasphemous things, but they are not doing it out of malice, but out of ignorance.

However, it does sadden me to see Muslims essentialy saying "Christians are our brothers in God, we love Jesus(AS) as much as you do, and we prostrate to the same GOd you do" and christians respond with insults on our Holy Last Messenger (SAW) and insults hurled at our Creator.

This forum is not like others Yaqub, the majority of christians here and especially the mods are quite respectful, even when denouncing our beleifs as false, it all depends on how you approach them, if come with an argumentitive nature, they will in turn respond with arguments, if you respond in genuine and truthful nature, likewise they will reciprocate.

MA, as committed as you are to your faith, I have to say my observation has been that you are a great representative of it. I haven't read everything you've shared but what I've read has added a measure of respect to you. I've seen some things thrown at you that were over the line, but you still took the high road.

Sometimes, I'll PM a fellow Christian to tame themselves more. It might be a good idea to bring Yaqub up to speed via PM's. With a little less aggressive offense and a strong defense, he could make his points with them same dignity you do. He has it in him, but by introducing himself the way he did, he sort of set himself up.

Here's a question for you both: Do you believe we are brothers in God? Wouldn't you call us infidels? I never use the term "Brothers in God", because that sounds rather vague. Too many other gods people have conjured up. We are Christians. We follow Him, as He is God. We are brothers and sisters in Christ! Believing in Him as God and as our Savior AND responding to His love with the life he leads makes someone a brother in Christ. This is far different than someone who says they have profound respect for His teachings but not acknowledging His Divinity.

I breathed a sigh of relief when I saw you posted here, because I thought this was our chance for meaningful dialogue. :nod

 

[Yaqub]

Sometimes, I'll PM a fellow Christian to tame themselves more. It might be a good idea to bring Yaqub up to speed via PM's. With a little less aggressive offense and a strong defense, he could make his points with them same dignity you do. He has it in him, but by introducing himself the way he did, he sort of set himself up.


During the past year I have tried and tried again to discover what it is about Christianity that allows such as those who have no regard for Godliness. Time after time my attempts at civility were thrown in my face in contemptuous manner. Today, I visited this forum and the first thing I saw was the bit about ours not being the God of Abraham. Here it was again. Always with a reason which defies logic. It was too much for me.

Should I give up trying to understand these people who throw so many rocks in the name of God? No. That would not be right. I had abandoned the former gentle manner which is my normal style for a more direct one hoping to gain a better understanding. But no. There is none to be had.

Assalamu to you brother. I shall try to be more accepting of others.

Yaqub

 

[VegasGeorge]

"Tolerance" should never be confused with acceptance or approval. I believe that islam is wrong, a false religion, and that moslems are nothing more than idolators. But until the relatively recent upsurge in militancy among moslems, and the funding and at least tacit approval of jihad by major moslem elements and countries, I was willing to pursue a 'live and let live' approach to Christian relations with islam. Now, however, that has changed. Christianity is under attack and I for one will fight back. It is still the duty of Christians to proselytize and attempt the peaceful conversion of moslems to Christianity. But it is also the duty of Christians to defend the faith, and that includes physically defending our Christian homeland. America IS a Christian nation, founded by Christians for Christians, and upon Christian standards and ideals. America is NOT a moslem nation, and should never be allowed to become one. There is NO place for sharia law in America. "Tolerance" in America includes allowing for the peaceful coexistence of Christians and others, but it does not include the surrender of our Christian national heritage to moslems.

 

[PouringRain]

During the past year I have tried and tried again to discover what it is about Christianity that allows such as those who have no regard for Godliness. Time after time my attempts at civility were thrown in my face in contemptuous manner. Today, I visited this forum and the first thing I saw was the bit about ours not being the God of Abraham. Here it was again. Always with a reason which defies logic. It was too much for me.

Should I give up trying to understand these people who throw so many rocks in the name of God? No. That would not be right. I had abandoned the former gentle manner which is my normal style for a more direct one hoping to gain a better understanding. But no. There is none to be had.

Assalamu to you brother. I shall try to be more accepting of others.

Yaqub

I think Mujahid has had some good advice for you. Talk to him and he can tell you about the members here-- who to avoid, who not to.

I understand how it can be difficult to see threads about your religion that contains so many errors, falsehoods, generalizations, etc. and you have a desire to address those problems and correct them. It can be difficult to hold ones tongue, but the things is, people who make threads like that do not want to know any truth. (People of both of our religions who do it.) Their ears and minds are closed. They have no interest in finding out the truth to their questions, only in listening to themselves speak. They have already decided on the answers and there is nothing you say that will influence them. (In case anyone misunderstands what I am saying, I am not speaking of people as a whole, just select people in both religions who continuously spout out false things about the other religion.) You just have to wipe your feet at the door and know when to just walk away. All you can do is pray for them. (Make du'a.)

Anyhow, I gotta run. I like your name.

 

[Tina]

.

It can be difficult to hold ones tongue, but the things is, people who make threads like that do not want to know any truth. (People of both of our religions who do it.) ..... just select people in both religions who continuously spout out false things about the other religion.)

While I partly agree with you .. the stark contrast is that when Muslims spout falsehood about Christianity or Jesus in any forum, they usually get away with it, the worst that could happen is a warning or possible ban .... but if a Christian attempts to spout falsehood about Islam or Muhammad in a MUSLIM FORUM , guess what is likely to happen ..... a "jihad" could possibly break out ..... perhaps a "cyber jihad" if not a real jihad !


:armed :twopistols :fullauto :fencing


So much for "Tolerance" and forgivenness !

All you can do is pray for them.

So you believe in praying to Allah ? .....

 

[Mike]

During the past year I have tried and tried again to discover what it is about Christianity that allows such as those who have no regard for Godliness. Time after time my attempts at civility were thrown in my face in contemptuous manner. Today, I visited this forum and the first thing I saw was the bit about ours not being the God of Abraham. Here it was again. Always with a reason which defies logic. It was too much for me.

If it's too much for you, and you can't control your outrage, perhaps being on a board isn't for you.

Should I give up trying to understand these people who throw so many rocks in the name of God? No. That would not be right. I had abandoned the former gentle manner which is my normal style for a more direct one hoping to gain a better understanding. But no. There is none to be had.

It didn't appear that you were reaching out to try to understand. There were some accusations based on a few or our members posts and your past experience on other boards, and not a lot of questions. IMO, when you abandoned your former gentle manner, you blew right past a more direct one and went to a very aggressive one. There's an art to being direct and being respectful at the same time, but it can be done. People would have been a lot more willing to engage with you if you weren't as aggressive.

Sorry, but the Christian and Muslim faiths are mutually exclusive. I will humbly assert that we have the Truth, and anything that contradicts it is false. Jesus told us we would be hated and persecuted for our faith. We can't sacrifice anything if it means conceding even one article of it. But we should defend the faith with love and respect as well. My desire is to invite unbelievers to experience Jesus, not to cast them out.

 

[Pard]

Yaqub,

You remind me of a U.U., with this idea that everyone's religion is "ok".Let's be real, you know that in Islam no Christian is going to meet up with any of those virgins and I know, as a Christian, that no Muslim is gonna make it into Heaven. We are not religious "brothers" at all, we are only brothers in the name of Adam.

You seem convinced that the majority of Christians are politically correct numb-skulls who would rather put civility before Christianity. This is wrong. Christians put Christ first, and if they are thinking properly they will know that Islam is a false religion, with a false God, invented by a false prophet. This boils down to idolatry, which is a sin before the Lord. As I stated before, when a Christian comes to you, doing just as Jesus said to do, and tries to show you that Islam is not the way, but that Christ is the Way, you need to be thankful because, like it or not, they are trying to help you save yourself from Hell.

Now, some people will go about this in a civil manner, while others will do so in a more straight forward manner, and still others will just be plan rude about it. You need to realize the difference between the first two and the last one. The last is the only manner which is against what the Lord commanded of us, and let me tell you, not a single person on this thread has been rude to you in any way or form. In fact, I'd suggest that no has been rude to you on this entire forum, even the two people MA told you to stay clear of.

Your problem is you see that the Truth people lovingly give to you is them being rude to you. Well, the Truth is going to be a rude wake-up call for you, but nothing more.

 

[watchman F]

Of course Christians are going to believe your religion is false. If they didn;t they would be muslim.

Not necessarily...

I am not sure what you mean???????

Seems like common since to me.