Christian Tolerance?

[Amazed]

Wow!

There are some Muslims, a small but vocal and visible minority, who pray to God but listen to Satan. These are not men of God. Now that you know that we needn't mention it again. Right?

Let's see... Where to begin.

It is "witnessing" that you engage in when you tell us that our God is false? The usual reason for witnessing is to bring others to the truth.

When you begin by insulting those of other faiths, telling them they are wrong, do you really think that they are going to be receptive to what you say? Are we to want to become Christians after being subjected to such language?

Yes this is a Christian forum. What better place to discover what motivates Christians? Easy that.

There is a topic title just below mine on the listing wherein a Christian attempts to tell Muslims that "allah" is the name or, derived from a pagan god and we thusly do not worship the same god as you do. The entire premise of the post is most inaccurate and just plain wrong. I question both the reason for the post and the level of awareness of the poster. Please read it. What have we Muslims done to you that provokes such derisive statements? Why can't Christians tend to their own sins and leave us to ours? If you visit a Muslim forum you will be hard pressed to find any postings which portray Christianity in an unfortunate way. This is because we revere Jesus and to insult His legacy is wrong. God will instruct us in the errors of our ways.

Is it too much to ask in return the same courtesy?

Blessings in Jesus' Name,

Yaqub

 

[Amazed]

Hi. Im Kelly. Grace and peace to you from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. I'm glad you came to the forum and are giving us the opportunity to witness to you.
First of all, I admit that I have only little knowledge of the Islamic faith. However, I can tell you that Muslims do not worship the same God as us (christian) BECAUSE our God is our Father AND Jesus is His son!
Since you have come to this christian forum, I cannot pass up the opportunity to witness to you. This is my testimony. That Jesus is the Christ the Son of God. And that he was crucified on the Cross for your sins. And that He was resurrected on the third day for your righteousness and for your peace with God. How do I know? Because of the written letter? Yes- it was because of the written letter that I first believed Jesus to be Lord and Savior..... But it is because of the LIVING LETTER that I KNOW Jesus is Lord of all and Savior of every believer.
Now, It is very difficult for me to EXPLAIN this to you because I am still carnal, and the Word is divine. Romans 3:2-3 says "You yourselves are our letter written on our hearts, known and read by everybody. You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written now with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tables of stone but on tablets of human hearts.
You cannot understand Jesus' divine Sonship and participate in the divine nature because your hearts are veiled. And the veil is only torn by believing EVERY WORD.
You say that the Bible has authority in your religion- yet you do not believe what it says..?...
My stomach aches for you to believe. Because I know what is like to live in the darkness. Just believe it and confess it... And the truth will set you free. It is supernatural and beyond mortal comprehension. I pray for you. God bless you.

 

[Nick]

The gospel is offensive because it commands us to deny ourselves, take up our cross and follow Jesuse. Otherwise, many more people would be Christians.

There are extreme individuals for anything - Richard Dawkins for atheism, Westbro Baptist Church for Christianity and many terrorist groups for Islam. I don't think any group is 'innocent' with extreme statements/doctrines, unsenstitive judgement calls etc.

 

[jasoncran]

The gospel is offensive because it commands us to deny ourselves, take up our cross and follow Jesuse. Otherwise, many more people would be Christians.

There are extreme individuals for anything - Richard Dawkins for atheism, Westbro Baptist Church for Christianity and many terrorist groups for Islam. I don't think any group is 'innocent' with extreme statements/doctrines, unsenstitive judgement calls etc.

you forgot the jesus jones and the david koresh types as well.

 

[PouringRain]

[quote="Tina
So you believe in praying to Allah ? .....


[/quote]

I believe we all worship the same God, so yes, I believe in praying to God.

I realize that this is not a popular view on this forum.

 

[Ed the Ned]

The Bible is Gods word, Jesus died for my sins. I am told in Gods Word that I should not accept false Gospels. A Christian has to believe that the Koran is false. If he does not then he cannot claim to be Christian. No matter how tolerant we try to be it is not in Gods Word that we should accept it as truth.

There are many "Christian" preachers and prophets out there preaching false gospels. There are "Christians" who accept that the Koran is an extension of the universal truth of God. When we go back to the Bible we are told that this was going to happen and was already happening in the time of the apostles. I don't feel as a Christian I need to study the Koran to prove it is false. I only need to have certainty that the Bible is Gods Word and it is Truth.

God gave us the choice to follow HIm or deny Him in Christ. That is our choice and just as a muslim follows Islam it his his or her choice. I don't feel I need to stand up and critisize or condemn a Muslim. Why would we consider that Christian? God will be the judge one day and the muslims on this forum will not be able to turn to God and say we did not know. I can pray for them and can give my opinion regarding faith (Biblical) and discuss current affairs.

I don't think that it is right for a non-christian to critize Christians on a Christian forum. If it was an open forum I would understand. I think any non-christian on this forum should respect the fact that this forum is designed for Christians who want to discuss their own faith with brothers and sisters in Christ. They should respect that we see the Holy Bible as the Word of God. They should also respect that we are told that Holy Spirit lives in us and reveals to us the Truth of Gods Word. They should respect that we believe Christ died for our sins and it is only when we believe in Him that we will have eternal life.

 

[Mike]

I believe we all worship the same God, so yes, I believe in praying to God.

I realize that this is not a popular view on this forum.

PR, you're going to have to explain yourself further if you want people to understand what you said here. Of course it isn't going to be popular, because this flies in the face of there being One True God whom we worship. And we know no-one comes to the Father but by Jesus. Or at least, we're supposed to know that.

While it may be true that people know of God, misunderstand His nature, and call Him by another name, we can't allow for the Truth to be watered down to the point that He is found among all different religions.

I always appreciate Ed's input as I do his above. Before I go to far, I'll wait for you to comment further on this post.

 

[watchman F]

I believe we all worship the same God, so yes, I believe in praying to God.

I realize that this is not a popular view on this forum.

Not the popular view in this forum? No christian should have this view. How can you claim Allah is the same as Jesus? Or the same as the Father?

 

[Mike]

I dont think PR is taking a Unitarian approach to religion, I think she understands that Muslims do not worship Jesus(AS), and when we pray, we are not praying to Jesus(AS).

I think what she is saying is that she beleives the when we pray to Allah, we are praying to God The Father.

In my conversations with PR, she has advocated that while Muslims and Christians both worship God the father, she feels Muslims are neglecting the Role of Jesus(AS) in Divinity, and thus are not believers and subject to the same punishments of any infidel.

I tried to allow PR to explain herself for herself. You might be right, but it seems we should allow her the opportunity to explain what she means.

I would submit that a followers of a religion that don't know the same God as the One True God; His full nature, or Him through His True Word in the Bible, are not worshiping the same God. I'll go so far as to acknowledge that the same God is the source of all that is, but they don't grasp Him in full. Your post went on to reference the Trinity.

The confusion arises from the concept of the trinity, which is even confusing to christians.

We can all agree that Muslims do not worship Jesus(AS), We worship the same God the Jews worship, which is why I find it confusing that this argument isnt also applied to Jews. We call God - Allah. but we also refer to Him as God, and we accept Yahweh and El and Hashem and "Him".

Jesus is One with the Father and the Holy Spirit, yet separate. To deny Jesus' in the Triune God, is to not be worshiping the same God that Christians do. I could be wrong, you could be wrong, or we both could be wrong, but we can't both be right. Of course we are both very convinced that we are worshiping the One God. I have no way of saying what will happen come Judgment Day to the one who doesn't confess Jesus is Lord. god's Grace and Mercy are beyond my understanding. But I do know how to have assurance in His Reward! :amen You knew Him once, Mujahid. Though you have wandered, you're never out of His reach or His invitation. I pray that you return to Him.

 

[Pard]

Muslims deny Jesus and the Trinity. This is evident and I am sure MA will agree with this statement.

Given this we know that Muslims and Christians cannot possibly worship the same God. Either the Muslims worship the God of Abraham or the Christians do, but not both.

 

[jasoncran]

Muslims deny Jesus and the Trinity. This is evident and I am sure MA will agree with this statement.

Given this we know that Muslims and Christians cannot possibly worship the same God. Either the Muslims worship the God of Abraham or the Christians do, but not both.

What about jews? Why is there a double standard for the Muslim Abrahamic Monotheism and the Jewish Abrahamic monotheism?

Jews Even agree that Muslims and jews worship the same God.

really? let me ask the ones in my family. and i will let you know.

 

[Pard]

Muslims deny Jesus and the Trinity. This is evident and I am sure MA will agree with this statement.

Given this we know that Muslims and Christians cannot possibly worship the same God. Either the Muslims worship the God of Abraham or the Christians do, but not both.

What about jews? Why is there a double standard for the Muslim Abrahamic Monotheism and the Jewish Abrahamic monotheism?

Jews Even agree that Muslims and jews worship the same God.

I know plenty of Jews. I talk to them about this stuff. Not a single one of them believes that Muslims worship the same God as them. Actually, we talked about this very topic, because it was here in the forum. They were deeply insulted that I would even suggest the possibility, though I do not believe it at all.

There is no double standard at all. I can prove to you, using the Old testament alone, that the God of the Jews is Triune in nature. And Christians believe in a single, monotheistic God.

 

[jasoncran]

when i was a kid, if my dad wore sandals inside my grandpas house, grandpa would say what are you, an Arab?!
so i know that my family would agree with that statement of pards. as my grandparents went to the temple and my grandpa taught hebrew.

 

[watchman F]

This is common source of confusion amongst christians AND Muslims.

I dont think PR is taking a Unitarian approach to religion, I think she understands that Muslims do not worship Jesus(AS), and when we pray, we are not praying to Jesus(AS).

I think what she is saying is that she beleives the when we pray to Allah, we are praying to God The Father.

Well she is wrong. Allah is not God the Father.

 

[JudaicChristian]

Sometimes, I'll PM a fellow Christian to tame themselves more. It might be a good idea to bring Yaqub up to speed via PM's. With a little less aggressive offense and a strong defense, he could make his points with them same dignity you do. He has it in him, but by introducing himself the way he did, he sort of set himself up.


During the past year I have tried and tried again to discover what it is about Christianity that allows such as those who have no regard for Godliness. Time after time my attempts at civility were thrown in my face in contemptuous manner. Today, I visited this forum and the first thing I saw was the bit about ours not being the God of Abraham. Here it was again. Always with a reason which defies logic. It was too much for me.

Should I give up trying to understand these people who throw so many rocks in the name of God? No. That would not be right. I had abandoned the former gentle manner which is my normal style for a more direct one hoping to gain a better understanding. But no. There is none to be had.

Assalamu to you brother. I shall try to be more accepting of others.

Yaqub

How can Christians put behind them what has happened, when Muslims attack and kill them daily. Muslims kill as many Christians as they can everyday throughout the world. Just how civil should we be while Muslims kill us everyday? We share with you what we know as a matter of fact, and do we get any thanks? No, we only get insults and cursings. Muslims seem to think anyone who is not a Muslims lies about everything said against Islam. That kind of logic suggest that Muslims are beyond reason.

 

[shad]

There is no double standard at all. I can prove to you, using the Old testament alone, that the God of the Jews is Triune in nature. And Christians believe in a single, monotheistic God.

Excuse me Pard, I am non-trinitarian but I believe that Jesus is Son of God and Savior of the world. I am Jesus' servant. I live for Him. I also believe that the Bible is God-inspired.

 

[Mike]

Muslims deny Jesus and the Trinity. This is evident and I am sure MA will agree with this statement.

Given this we know that Muslims and Christians cannot possibly worship the same God. Either the Muslims worship the God of Abraham or the Christians do, but not both.

What about jews? Why is there a double standard for the Muslim Abrahamic Monotheism and the Jewish Abrahamic monotheism?

Jews Even agree that Muslims and jews worship the same God.

MA, there is not a double standard. The is One Standard by which everything is measured. The first Christians were Jews who shared the same heritage with Jewish people of today. The same can not be said of Muslims. So, in that respect, we have a lot more common ground with Jewish people. While they do worship God the Father, they too fail to experience God in all His fullness in the One Triune God. There is easier dialogue with them in discussing our God, because they rely on scripture that (as Pard said) can be used to point to the Trinity. They've introduced no external book to replace the Bible as Muslims have.

All I'm saying here is that there's a stronger connection between their faith and ours. Having said that, it's interesting that I've not seen Jewish people join the board and debate Christians as Muslims have. Although the reason might have something to do with sheer numbers. There are many more Muslims in the world, and they are more assertive in seeking conversion.

 

[Nick]

The Bible is Gods word, Jesus died for my sins. I am told in Gods Word that I should not accept false Gospels. A Christian has to believe that the Koran is false. If he does not then he cannot claim to be Christian. No matter how tolerant we try to be it is not in Gods Word that we should accept it as truth.

There are many "Christian" preachers and prophets out there preaching false gospels. There are "Christians" who accept that the Koran is an extension of the universal truth of God. When we go back to the Bible we are told that this was going to happen and was already happening in the time of the apostles. I don't feel as a Christian I need to study the Koran to prove it is false. I only need to have certainty that the Bible is Gods Word and it is Truth.

God gave us the choice to follow HIm or deny Him in Christ. That is our choice and just as a muslim follows Islam it his his or her choice. I don't feel I need to stand up and critisize or condemn a Muslim. Why would we consider that Christian? God will be the judge one day and the muslims on this forum will not be able to turn to God and say we did not know. I can pray for them and can give my opinion regarding faith (Biblical) and discuss current affairs.

I don't think that it is right for a non-christian to critize Christians on a Christian forum. If it was an open forum I would understand. I think any non-christian on this forum should respect the fact that this forum is designed for Christians who want to discuss their own faith with brothers and sisters in Christ. They should respect that we see the Holy Bible as the Word of God. They should also respect that we are told that Holy Spirit lives in us and reveals to us the Truth of Gods Word. They should respect that we believe Christ died for our sins and it is only when we believe in Him that we will have eternal life.

I would agree with nearly all of this. I would just say that I see no harm in reading the Qur'an to gain a better understanding of Islam and where they come from - in fact to understand their postion I think it almost necessary. However I wouldn't condem people for not reading it at all, I just think it could be useful to read it.

 

[Ed the Ned]

I would just say that I see no harm in reading the Qur'an to gain a better understanding of Islam and where they come from

- Nick

I agree, no I am not contradicting myself! What I was implying is that the Bible is enough Truth for me for me to defend my faith in Christ and accept it is the Truth. The only Truth. I do think that it is important to understand other religions and beliefs to ensure that those teachings are not mingled into Christian teachings. I also think it is important to try and understand dangerous anti-christian sentiments that linger in Islamic teachings, whether it is from the Koran or elsewhere.

The topic is Christian Tolerance. Why arn't we discussing Islamic Tolerance. Muslims are erecting and have erected Mosques in places that have clear Christian and Jewish significance. They believe that a muslim that coverts to Christianity should be killed. Why do Muslim countries have an issue with Christians yet they see no problem with Islam converts in Christian countries.

 

[Nick]

Ok, then Ed we agree.