jasoncran
Member
that is because you sound much like a uu type. and pard and i see that. pard is raised in that church.
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Christian Tolerance?
- Thread starter Yaqub
- Start date
Isaiah28:7-8
Member
Its not the same because you dont want it to be. We have the technology to build defenses against attacks. The Japanese have missile shields and defensive means, why should we not also be pacifistic in our approach?
I hardly think the loss of two buildings and a few thousand lives warrants the destruction of a country and over 100,000 civilian lives alone among the great crimes america has perpetuated.
We bombed bunkers that MAY have contained al qaeda members but turned out not to and it was located in the middle of a thriving city. Any time you bomb a city or target the innocents nearby die. Bombs are not carefully aimed bullets they are weapons of mass destruction and everything nearby is decimated human or not.
We have yet to be bombed by the middle east once. Yet we bomb like we're dropping candy yet no one has caught the supposed perpetrator of the crimes.
The intel showed that the war was premeditated and they were planning to go into iraq for some time. They also took down Hussein without warrant at the time among other strange things for supposed revenge.
We stop hijackers all the time without killing as we stop many things. Japan is able to stop threats from outside without violence. Why can we not do the same?
Im amazed that common people with boxcutters could hijack a plane this issue lies with not taking preventive measures that we should have.
But one act does not warrant massive killing and execution and a 9 year war that seems to never end.There is more than justice that is going on.
jasoncran
Member
japan is able to stop violence let see here then what of the cult with the sarin gas thing that killed hundreds. war is and should be a last resort. but what did you expect? us to oh my bad america from the president we are gonna to have not go after bin laden so as to avoid the casualties of innocents
how many terrorists attacks has japan had , more then we do and mostly from within.
those innocents are killed by the taliban and are used as shields. in my ao we had one of those incidents the local village of nagalam was ransacked and the kids of that village was killed, why cause they helped us and sought medical attention for themselves and thier kids.
flight 93 was shot down not taken over. look at the crash evidence, very little found considered that angle of approach and the tail section was nearby. so that bird had to come in real hard for that tail to seperate(this does happen when a boeing 747 does that) yet very little of fueselage was found. one ir guided missile did the trick imho.
now then. japan has what for defenses, we pay for them last i checked. been a while since i looked at that.
how many terrorists attacks has japan had , more then we do and mostly from within.
those innocents are killed by the taliban and are used as shields. in my ao we had one of those incidents the local village of nagalam was ransacked and the kids of that village was killed, why cause they helped us and sought medical attention for themselves and thier kids.
flight 93 was shot down not taken over. look at the crash evidence, very little found considered that angle of approach and the tail section was nearby. so that bird had to come in real hard for that tail to seperate(this does happen when a boeing 747 does that) yet very little of fueselage was found. one ir guided missile did the trick imho.
now then. japan has what for defenses, we pay for them last i checked. been a while since i looked at that.
Isaiah28:7-8
Member
See thats the issue, pentacostal people believe the bible is inerrant and other denominations or even non denominations will not necessarily agree with it.
There is no remedy to that.
I sound much like UU perhaps but this doesnt mean I obtained all my information from UU. I considered myself non-denominational and attend UU to share my faith.I believe what I do out of the teachings and what I believe is the way to live the word of jesus and his compassion and kindness. What I believe is that we are to emulate christ as closely as possible period. It is out of this much of my beliefs spring. If we are not to emulate christ then why did he give us endless teachings on compassion, kindness and love.
I see that Jesus saved all men and I see that he was compassionate to all.
Others feel differently. There is no way to reconcile two opposite sets of beliefs. But attacks or calling cult doesnt help a thing nor is it emulating christ. I feel people are being very intolerant overall. This is the issue with christianity and why people have issues with christian is this sort of attitude.
Tina
Member
I live in a First-World multi-racial Asian country where it's common to see a Mosque, a Hindu Temple, a Chinese Temple and a Church next to each other ... and the freedom of religion allows all kind of Christian as well as Non-Christian festivals and events happening all year round.
I read the newspapers and watch news every single day on TV and all I've ever seen about terrorist attacks is the Islamic religion solely behind it. Yet in my country, no one is allowed to say anything bad about Islam or Muslims. A couple of unfortunate guys have been arrested, convicted, charged and are serving their sentence for making the mistake of saying bad things about Islam. You guys in the States have freedom of speech when it comes to the Islam religion but we don't !
jasoncran
Member
that is because we believe the bible over men, did you just say that the bible is to intepret the bible?
isnt that not self contradictory if its in error how do you know that?
you have said that with about the gospel. with that thought we can justify all manner of sin. when i was acted in my bisexuality i used that thinking for that as i had to. i knew what the bible clearly said and wanted that man.
and i guess add baptists and others that still hold to that.
i think your problem with that is the approach, sometimes we can be too blunt. and bash the faith of others, i have to adjust my approach for that, but i was raised in a cult myself. called the jehovah's witness.
i know that doctrine well. it hasnt changed much at all. alot of good persons there and some truth but not the way to heaven(they deny the diety of christ)
they too believed in the innerency of the bible. i just disagree with their intrerpretations of the bible.
and the bible innerant guys that are protestent accept what you would call solo scriptura.
you are of the liberal scholar fold, i know pard will comment on that , and i think thats where hes coming from.
isnt that not self contradictory if its in error how do you know that?
you have said that with about the gospel. with that thought we can justify all manner of sin. when i was acted in my bisexuality i used that thinking for that as i had to. i knew what the bible clearly said and wanted that man.
and i guess add baptists and others that still hold to that.
i think your problem with that is the approach, sometimes we can be too blunt. and bash the faith of others, i have to adjust my approach for that, but i was raised in a cult myself. called the jehovah's witness.
i know that doctrine well. it hasnt changed much at all. alot of good persons there and some truth but not the way to heaven(they deny the diety of christ)
they too believed in the innerency of the bible. i just disagree with their intrerpretations of the bible.
and the bible innerant guys that are protestent accept what you would call solo scriptura.
you are of the liberal scholar fold, i know pard will comment on that , and i think thats where hes coming from.
Isaiah28:7-8
Member
I live in a First-World multi-racial Asian country where it's common to see a Mosque, a Hindu Temple, a Chinese Temple and a Church next to each other ... and the freedom of religion allows all kind of Christian as well as Non-Christian festivals and events happening all year round.
I read the newspapers and watch news every single day on TV and all I've ever seen about terrorist attacks is the Islamic religion solely behind it. Yet in my country, no one is allowed to say anything bad about Islam or Muslims. A couple of unfortunate guys have been arrested, convicted, charged and are serving their sentence for making the mistake of saying bad things about Islam. You guys in the States have freedom of speech when it comes to the Islam religion but we don't !
It is unfortunate that there is such censorship.
Son of Hutaree Leaders Wants Charges Dismissed « Michigan Messenger
The hutaree militia was a recent incident where a US christian group by the product of their faith decided to plot a terrorist attack against the US. This is an ongoing case and happened just recently. We tend to be able to infiltrate and disrupt US terrorist actions before they occur due to government projects like echelon among others which monitor communications on all levels.So US terrorist plots are usually aborted by officials before they are carried out.
Tina
Member
.
I'm curious .... which denominations do not believe the bible is inerrant ?
From which source or which scriptures do you base your belief that "Jesus saved ALL men" ?
I'm curious .... which denominations do not believe the bible is inerrant ?
From which source or which scriptures do you base your belief that "Jesus saved ALL men" ?
Isaiah28:7-8
Member
The bible is the way to learn the bible, not from men who may or may not distort it. I invite all people to study the bible to learn the bible but unfortunately many people rely on various intrepretations or other people to teach them the bible or what to believe and this is in err often times.
I am not suggesting to excuse all manner of sin by accepting that there are bibilical discrepancies. I however think it is in error to believe that opposing stories are both true as 1+1=2 but cannot equal also 3. It must be one or the other and my view is that we must decide in our faith what is the truth through the bible for ourselves as I feel the bible as erred passing through the hands of men and this is why while god does not err the bible does quite clearly in some areas.
The accounts of Judas differ as well:
Acts 1:18
"This very man, therefore, purchased a field with the wages for unrighteousness, and pitching head foremost he noisily burst in his midst and all his intestines were poured out."
Mt. 27:5
"So he threw the silver pieces into the temple and withdrew, and went off and hanged himself."
Which is correct?
So now we have the issue of two different accounts of the birth of Jesus as well as two differing accounts of the death of Judas. Which ones are correct?
If the bible is inerrant why are there two opposing accounts of both things plus this is just the beginning of the discrepancies.
To say the bible is inerrant is ignorant in my opinion as clearly both cases cannot be true in both scenarios given.
Isaiah28:7-8
Member
.
I'm curious .... which denominations do not believe the bible is inerrant ?
Many. Some view the bible as literal, some metaphorical. Some view the bible as inerrant, some do not hold to this necessarily. The denominations vary widely in views.
You can answer your own question.
[/quote]
From which source or which scriptures do you base your belief that "Jesus saved ALL men" ?[/QUOTE]
Ive answered time and again my beliefs several times this morning alone.
No one will be satisfied until it is their own faith's view of things precisely then another group will rise up and complain.
As far as Im concerned the best thing to do is agree to disagree as I feel this is fruitless and going nowhere and with my views and pieces being said it is fruitless to continue to debate something we will not agree upon.
I bear no ill will against anyone in any of this, for the record.
Tina
Member
Not the 9/11 .... Perhaps God didn't intervene to stop that so that the world may come to know what kind of religion Islam is. The Quran burning was also aborted, and I believe it's largely because Christians mostly disapproved of it and prayed against it and God intervened.
The tiny island where I live in Asia may be completely wiped out from bombings if God hadn't intervened ... a couple of Islamic terrorist plots by the Al-Qaeda network were foiled before they were executed.
Isaiah28:7-8
Member
That is hate speech. The quran issue was stopped because of politics the government was heavily involved in trying to stop it including many branches of government due to the impact on the current diplomatic situation.
Heres the issue AL-Qaeda is NOT Islam.... Al-qaeda is a terrorist organization that runs guns, is militant and profits from the sales of opium.
Islam is islam. Not minority groups on the fringe.
God gave man free will and does NOT prevent free will from being expressed whether it is good or evil btw. This is why 9/11 happened. That and the government failed to act in time.
Ok. I don't know you. I only know what I see for myself. I see muslims calling for the murder of cartoonists who draw a cartoon of Muhammed. I see muslims who scream with blood in thier eyes "death to America". I see muslims celebrating the deaths of 3000 people here in the US.
Don't tell me that Islam is a religion of peace and non-violent.
Michelle Malkin » MUSLIMS KILL CHRISTIANS IN NIGERIA
Muslims Burn Homes, Attack, Kill Christians and Buddhists in Bangladesh - Atlas Shrugs
Islam Killing Christians
It goes the other way too but is this retaliation, which is anti-christian by principal, or revenge, which is also anti-christian?
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2004/mayweb-only/5-3-32.0.html
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Tina
Member
.
Earlier you said this --->
Now you are saying this --->
You are only contradicting yourself ....... :biglol
Earlier you said this --->
Now you are saying this --->
You are only contradicting yourself ....... :biglol
jasoncran
Member
unbelivable, one is talking about his death of judas and when he cast his money to the sanhedrin.
not quite a contradiction, now then if one of those is wrong,why not remove it? why not check and see if theres another accounts? surely there must be. so what if you are checking scriptures verse scripture and that occurs? what then? you must have someone to doublecheck you.
what version of the bible are you using? i will post the kjv on that.
act 1:18 " Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity;and falling headlong he burst asunder in the midst and his bowels gushed out"
then unto mt 27:5 " and he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hang himself"
sounds close to me. not exact as is the nature of witness but good enough for a court. theres a general picture produced here. i can gather that he hung himself, and a field was purchased with his money to bury him see matt 27:6 -8 on that. so that isnt quite a contradiction, but a GENERAL idea and view of what when.
that is how eyewitness work, you will never get the exact words(if you do they a lyin). as we see things differently. the courts use the general consesus as what did they all notice and in the gospel we see just that.
now then i have a question for you? how do you know what the lord actually said? at point was salvation for the gentiles added? that could have been added later by the catholics or a gentile group. as all the apostles were jewish
or what of the words of jesus did he really die on the cross,or say those things.
and notice the jesus never said i came to the gentiles but the lost sheep of isreal, so then could it be that gentiles added the peter vision at a later date?
Pard
Member
Well, I'm Christian, but I do attend a Pentecostal church because they are more in line with the Bible then other churches. I also attend a Baptist church's youth program. The Bible is the Word of God, literal and all. Man's hand wrote the Bible, but God was in them when they did it. And no, not all scholars "know". There are plenty of Bible scholars who hold that the Bible is free of error and contradiction and is the Word of God. Don't try the "every scholar knows" trick. I've seen them all, not going to phase me with sweeping generalizations.
Not going to argue this because I recognize emotional beliefs and as I rule I avoid arguing with people are have a view because of emotions.
You sound like you did. Universalism is not exactly a common belief... You may not have been raised a UU, but you are fitting the mold.
I think you have stumbled upon a colloquialism. "Bit" doesn't mean a little to me. "Bit" is not the same as a little time it means a constant amount or so.
This really got me to laugh! People who claim the Bible is just a bunch of stories written by men never want to admit the inflections the Hebrew language puts on words. There are inflections in the Hebrew language that proclaim literalness. I know all about Hebrew inflection, I am a studying student of Hebrew and Greek.
Though technically speaking the modern English translations (dating back to the Geneva, actually) are direct translations from the Greek (Gospel) and Hebrew (Tanakh)...
Yup His name is Yahushua. We know this from the Tanakh, for it declares the name of the coming Messiah.
That's fine and understandable. But I am not about to let someone glaze over and declare something wrong because they are "scholars". Some have gifts of teaching, we call them Pastors. Scholars are those who wish they had the gift but do not.
Bob Carabbio
Member
"This does not anger me so much as it amazes me."
Actually it shouldn't "amaze" you at all.
One obvious, basic, and ABSOLUTE FUNDAMENTAL of Christianity is it's TOTAL "INTOLERANCE" of ANY OTHER "religious system" when the question becomes" How Does a human AVOID eternal separation from God, and ENTER into spiritual life WITH Him - when physical existence ceases??
Jesus says "I am the WAY, the TRUTH and the LIFE, and NO MAN comes to the father except by ME" - and that's about as INTOLERANT of other religious systems as one can get. it's an ABSOLUTE STATEMENT which totally ELIMINATES any other belief system from consideration.
So essentially, I'm TOTALLY INTOLERANT of any Islamic claims that their "way" is even a "Way" at all. I couldn't care less whether Islam is "Peaceful", "Neutral" or "Bloody". I couldn't care less what the Koran says or doesn't say, And I couldn't care less about Islamic worship and/or beliefs. They are meaningless to me, and will remain so - since there's no reason to even bother with 'em.
If Jesus is the WAY, and the ONLY NAME by which there is salvation - then there IS NO OTHER WAY - period.
All the rest is nothing but "Background noise".
That doesn't mean we couldn't "Get along" socially, or that I wouldn't treat an Islamic believer honestly, and with hospitality, and friendliness - as I would anybody else as another "brother in the flesh".
I WOULD NOT consider an Islamic believer to be a "Brother in the Lord" - or as anything other than just another unregenerate human following a false belief system.
If an Islamic believer ASKED me to "Give an account of my faith" - I would tell him my testimony of salvation 50 years ago when I turned over my life to the Lord in faith.
I would not ask an Islamic believer about his beliefs, since I'd have no interest in 'em. And if the Holy Spirit would "Convince the Islamic believer of his sin" then I'd help Him to become a Christian through faith in the shed blood of Jesus that cleanses us from sin.
Simple as that.
Our "Intolerance" is almost certainly what will get us in SERIOUS trouble when the "New World Order" begins gaining REAL power on earth, and persecution gets rolling again.
Actually it shouldn't "amaze" you at all.
One obvious, basic, and ABSOLUTE FUNDAMENTAL of Christianity is it's TOTAL "INTOLERANCE" of ANY OTHER "religious system" when the question becomes" How Does a human AVOID eternal separation from God, and ENTER into spiritual life WITH Him - when physical existence ceases??
Jesus says "I am the WAY, the TRUTH and the LIFE, and NO MAN comes to the father except by ME" - and that's about as INTOLERANT of other religious systems as one can get. it's an ABSOLUTE STATEMENT which totally ELIMINATES any other belief system from consideration.
So essentially, I'm TOTALLY INTOLERANT of any Islamic claims that their "way" is even a "Way" at all. I couldn't care less whether Islam is "Peaceful", "Neutral" or "Bloody". I couldn't care less what the Koran says or doesn't say, And I couldn't care less about Islamic worship and/or beliefs. They are meaningless to me, and will remain so - since there's no reason to even bother with 'em.
If Jesus is the WAY, and the ONLY NAME by which there is salvation - then there IS NO OTHER WAY - period.
All the rest is nothing but "Background noise".
That doesn't mean we couldn't "Get along" socially, or that I wouldn't treat an Islamic believer honestly, and with hospitality, and friendliness - as I would anybody else as another "brother in the flesh".
I WOULD NOT consider an Islamic believer to be a "Brother in the Lord" - or as anything other than just another unregenerate human following a false belief system.
If an Islamic believer ASKED me to "Give an account of my faith" - I would tell him my testimony of salvation 50 years ago when I turned over my life to the Lord in faith.
I would not ask an Islamic believer about his beliefs, since I'd have no interest in 'em. And if the Holy Spirit would "Convince the Islamic believer of his sin" then I'd help Him to become a Christian through faith in the shed blood of Jesus that cleanses us from sin.
Simple as that.
Our "Intolerance" is almost certainly what will get us in SERIOUS trouble when the "New World Order" begins gaining REAL power on earth, and persecution gets rolling again.
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I second that!
Ed the Ned
Member
I "third" that