Christian Tolerance?

[jasoncran]

At what point to we stop being blindly tolerant and put our foot down for what is right?

When we repeal religious freedom in America.

a interesting person that was here in the amory council us on the death of a fellow soldier today in small talk with me stated that the entire bill of rights is appeable! along with the others.

the amendments are appealble but not the constution itself.

interesting. so i majority states wanted to vote in new amendment negating the earlier 1st they could.

 

[jasoncran]

not me. we cant do that. if they are peaceful and not a threat to us or anyother person we are not to do that.

 

[Pard]

MA,

The problem people have is not Allah worship (OK, I imagine people do have that problem, but not the point!). The problem is that Islam comes along with a whole sack full of laws and rules. You call it Sharia Law and that is the problem, because, admit it or not, Muslims impose this Sharia law on the nations they come to call home. Look at France, Sweden, England, Spain, and a whole mess of other European nations. That is what people do not want, and it is also wholey illegal in this nation...

 

[Pard]

All this anti-muslim talk is just a bit unsettleing - this may have been what germany was like in the 20's and 30's when anti jewish sentiment was high, but before the german people declared outright war on the jews.

I doubt that. It came on suddenly, if you read some of the journals from Jews of the time it just happened with no real warning. One minute they were normal citizens and the next they were being forced to wear stars and forced into ghettos and then camps.

And, that's what people fear, just telling you the truth. Heck, who wouldn't fear that set of laws? I got a few books by Muslims and even they fear that bunch of laws.

And, uh, it's not only in Muslim nations, is that what they are telling you? Parts of France are completely run by sharia law. We have friends there and they have entire sections where they will not go because they could very possibly die... The cops won't even investigate the murders and robberys or w/e in that area because they are not welcomed.

 

[Danus]

Sharia law is only imposed on a majority Muslim nation, and can only be imposed by a Muslim govt, so what are you so afraid of?

And that is the GOAL of Islam. Beside Muslims are subject to Sharia law, to the extent they can, regardless of the government they live under. Islam will continue to try and spread itself by force. That's not going to stop. You can say Islam is peaceful all you want. You can say how you like Jesus and how we are all brothers under the same God....but we're not. Islam does not love Christ nor understand even who Christ was. Islam is not the peaceful religion it claims. You may get the secular world to go along with it, but you won't get Christians to buy into, or Tolerate it.

 

[jasoncran]

ma, why has history shown other wise with islam?

 

[Ed the Ned]

Originally Posted by Mujahid Abdullah

Sharia law is only imposed on a majority Muslim nation, and can only be imposed by a Muslim govt, so what are you so afraid of?

Please explain! I stand correxced but are their not calls for Saria law to be imposed on Muslim communities within non-muslim govt.?

 

[sword99]

I have been on many christian forums and chat rooms over the years and I have seen bashings on both sides: muslims and christians. However, religious tolerance is a phrase that is being over used. The Scriptures tells us that as born again believers in Jesus Christ we have the right to judge those who preach falsely. To expose false doctrines and false teachers.. The apostle Paul was very clear on this. Unfortunately, many forums have been reduced to debates. Everyone trying to one up the other and get the last word in. I don't believe very many find Christ in this method.

 

[theLords]

I dont expect tolerance.

I also do not feel Islam is as Tollerant of false religions as modern American christians are.

If a Muslim, living in a Muslim land, ruled by sharia law, and has a just Muslim ruler ruling it, renounces Islam openly, that person is subject to the death penalty. In order for him to be put to death the land he lives in MUST fulfill all those conditions. The Hadd punishment can not be delved out by commoners with no knowledge of the law, the Hadd cannot be delved out without eye witnesses. If all these conditions are fulfilled than the death penalty is mandatory and as a Muslim I can not argue with that.

Like I said, I dont expect christians to be tollerant. when they are its fine, if they change that stance I wont be suprised or hurt by it.

why do you believe in this? does it not seem barbaric?

 

[theLords]

The evidence that the Muslims of today are not acting acording to Islam is right in front of you, as a whole we have violated the sharia and commands of Allah, hence, Allah has allowed the kuffar to defeat us and subjegate us. Once the Muslims as a whole begin to act as Muslims, we will once again reclaim the earth.

This is terrifying coming from the mouth of a peace loving muslim. I'm surprised.

 

[theLords]

Surah 15:26-35
We created the human being from aged mud, like the potter's clay. As for the jinns, we created them, before that, from blazing fire. Your Lord said to the angels, "I am creating a human being from aged mud, like the potter's clay. "Once I perfect him, and blow into him from My spirit, you shall fall prostrate before him." The angels fell prostrate; all of them, except Iblis (Satan). He refused to be with the prostrators. He said, "O Iblis (Satan), why are you not with the prostrators?" He said, "I am not to prostrate before a human being, whom You created from aged mud, like the potter's clay." He said, "Therefore, you must get out; you are banished. "You have incurred My condemnation until the Day of Judgment."

When jesus(AS) decends and judges and rules - it wont be the end silly - that is just the end of this era.

In the End, i.e. the day of Judgement, Allah will judge. - I see, you just took those hadeeth without looking at any others - you are just confused in regards to the Islamic version of End Times events - I thought you were crazy, now I see you are not. Look at the whole picture in regards to Jesus(AS) returning.

Now Adam(AS) is in your pantheon? This incident took place in heaven - while Adam(AS) was being created, our concept of angels is different from yours, Angels have no free-will, they can not disobey Allah, therefore, they could not ever take Adam as god beside Allah. In Addition, Iblis and the Angels were in the direct presence of Allah, and if you are in the direct pressence of Allah, you do what He says, and if he says prostrate to Adam(AS) you do it. Iblis, a Jinn, not an angel, refused to obey Allahs direct order - so He was cast down to earth and cursed for eternity. if I was sitting in heaven and Allah told me to prostrate before a tree, I would do it.

In arabic the word for prostrate is sujud which means to become lower than your surroundings.
The word for worship is Ibada - which means to worship. If the angels were ordered to worship adam(AS), the word Ibada would have been used.

You did not address all of my previous post - could you please explain your reasoning behind trying to prove we are commanded to worship more than one god, i.e. Jesus(AS) (and now Adam I guess), but claim you dont advocate worshipping more than one god?

Doesn't this here further prove that the God of Jesus Christ is not the same god of Mahammad?

Prostrating is a form of worship, so the god of Mahammad told his created beings to worship his other created beings.

But the God of Jesus Christ, has never and will never allow the worship of anyone else besides Himself.

Exodus 20:5
"...I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God...”

In the Bible when man used to fall before angels. There was a much different way of handling the situation.

Revelation 19:9-10
Then the angel told me, "Put this in writing. God will bless everyone who is invited to the wedding feast of the Lamb." The angel also said, "These things that God has said are true." I knelt at the feet of the angel and began to worship him. But the angel said, "Don't do that! I am a servant, just like you and everyone else who tells about Jesus. Don't worship anyone but God. Everyone who tells about Jesus does it by the power of the Spirit."

 

[theLords]

I believe in it for the same reasons you believe the OT stories - are they barbaric? is the OT law barbaric? if you lived in OT times would you question the laws sent down by Moses(AS) as barbaric?

You may have done away with the law - but we are still bound by the law - a new law albeit, but a law.

Also if you look at the historic examples of how many times someone has been put to death for something in Islam - there are maybe 20 recorded cases in 1400 years. God has made convicting someone of a death penalty offense so difficult that it rarely happens - and on the occasions it has happened, the perpetrator admmitted to the crime and asked for the Hadd so as to be forgiven of the sin.

I don't believe the OT stories are barbaric. They are the most loving acts of the most merciful God.

1) The people of the OT lived in a world Pre-Holy Spirit. When God destroyed the earth with the flood, the Bible says "the minds of men thought of nothing but evil" all day. They didn't have the gift of the Holy Spirit. Only those anointed of God had the Holy Spirit (i.e. King David) The Bible says that "there is no one good by God." All credit for all good done on the earth through man goes to God.

So as a foundation, I hope you see I'm first trying to establish that, the OT people were a people of very hard and calloused hearts.

2) The purpose of the Law and the Jews (God's chosen people) was to pave the way for the Messiah to come. That is it. The Law doesn't please God, respecting and obeying God through the law does. The Law taught the OT Jews that they were sinners and that God is Holy. That the only way to wash away your sins before God was to bring Him a blood sacrifice of an animal He deemed pure. The commandments in the Law were nothing more than a witness before the Jews to constantly remind them of the ways of God. (Do not mix the fibers of your clothes = do not marry into those of other religions. Do not eat pork for it is unclean = Remember that you in your flesh are unclean) This is the Law that Christ redeemed us from. The Commandments of God (which is also called the Law) is what cannot be abolished. (i.e. - Do not commit Adultery, Do not steal)

So here God has chosen a people group to be set about for Him. To show them His ways. He gave them a Law for them to learn His ways. He gave them a covenant with blessings if they obeyed and consequences if they did not. He also promised to give them a Messiah who would one day take away their sins in place of the animals they slay. This Messiah would come through their own bloodline and be light for them and the whole world. (The Jews are still waiting for the Messiah to come)

3) So now we see that God has paved the way for a Messiah to come and take away the sins of the earth. So when He said "Stone those who commit Adultery, Stone those who are disobedient to parents, Do not marry those who worship another God." He is doing this to keep the path pure. All those sins would be stumbling blocks for the Messiah. If God hadn't had been so strict in this regard the Jewish people would have disappeared! They would have been swallowed up by the other pagan people living at the time. But because of the wisdom of God the Jewish people are the oldest surviving civilization!

All Christians give PRAISE and THANKS to God for this. If He had not done this then we would never have met Jesus Christ.

So, now, I'll ask again. What is the point of murdering apostates in Islam?

 

[theLords]

Angels have no free will - they worship God in every action, they never rebel or sin. So when the angels bowed before Adam - the angels were simply hearing and obeying - them being in total servitude to God. I explained it earlier how the Arabic is written, they were not worshipping Adam(AS) - they were worshipping Allah by obeying His every command.

The act of prostrating is in and of itself an act of worship. Whether angels have no free will or not doesn't matter. The point is the god of Muhammad is not the God of Jesus Christ.

 

[watchman F]

Originally Posted by Mujahid Abdullah
Angels have no free will - they worship God in every action, they never rebel or sin. So when the angels bowed before Adam - the angels were simply hearing and obeying - them being in total servitude to God. I explained it earlier how the Arabic is written, they were not worshipping Adam(AS) - they were worshipping Allah by obeying His every command.

The act of prostrating is in and of itself an act of worship. Whether angels have no free will or not doesn't matter. The point is the god of Muhammad is not the God of Jesus Christ.

Satan and his demons were free to disobey. I must deduct that the rest of the angles are as well, and simply choose not to.

 

[Ashua]

Yaqub,

The reason why so many Christians speak out against islam, is because in their perception islam is a counterfeit delivered by a false prophet of which many will perish because islam directly disparages the Gospel of Christ: his sacrifice and resurrection, as well as role and origin. We were warned well before mohammed came against false prophets who would seek to pervert the Gospel.

I know that islam is a religion which greatly values proselytizing. Christianity is also. If you look at it from a Christian's perspective, they are only doing the most "loving" thing possible: spreading the gospel to whom they perceive to be lost in error. Certainly you feel that converting Christians to islam is to that Christian's benefit and in good intention you do will that all would convert to islam.

Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him. Leviticus 19:17

Better is open rebuke than hidden love. Proverbs 27:5

It is better to hear the rebuke of the wise, than for a man to hear the song of fools. Ecclesiates 7:5

There are so-called Christians who don't believe in rebuking. They claim it is judging --and then promptly turn on the rebuking Christian in JUDGING that Christian themselves. I remember one time I was merely stating my opinion that abortion is murder --directed at no one in particular-- and some teenage girl who --claimed-- she was a pro-life Christian got on my case and told me a bunch of blah blah blah you have no fruit you have a stoney heart blah blah blah. Why? Because I said abortionists commit murder. So the one who cried judge was herself judging.

The one who said you have to relate to people and have compassion on people and not judge people and love people in order to win them over was certainly not displaying any of that to me.

Anyways, people can talk all they want about the 'right' way to win people over, but as for me: I will look at the examples given to me.

Like when Jesus overturned the sacrilegious money changers tables in defiling the temple? Was that too direct? How about when Moses in his anger smashed the tablets of the Law against the idolatry of Israel? Does he make Jews and Christians look bad? And lets not forget about the time John the Baptist confronted king Herod without reservation concerning his adulteries.

Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins. -Isaiah 58:1

I am wrong for calling abortionists murderers. Didn't Jesus call the pharisees liars and murderers who do the will of their father the devil? A brood of vipers? Yeah, modern Christianity is sick. Jude says on some have compassion and on others save by fear. Some people respond to rebuke some respond to soft words. There is nothing unrighteous with calling sin what it is.


At the same time, there are parts of islam I think are very valid. Obviously the parts which mirror the Bible. Islam says "say not three" concerning the trinity. I will probably be accosted for say this, but while I wont exactly outright deny the trinity, there isnt much real evidence to support it. The plural word "Elohiym" is plural intensive to demonstrate might (sort of like a "King of kings and Lord of lords" is just an over the top way to demonstrate superiority.) The hebrew word for life is chayim --also a plural intensive word. chayim is used in the singular where the subject is one person. anyways without going too far into that, Ill just say I cannot denounce islam for that based on the fact that out scriptures NEVER plainly teach that. If I am wrong, then show me by the scriptures I am wrong. I do not argue out of malice or agenda. I present my understanding. If anyone thinks he has a higher understanding, let him rebuke me and show me Biblical love so that my understanding will be made whole. If you are fully convinced in the trinity doctrine and refuse to show me why, you have no right to judge my interpretation. It is not about debate and pride. Its about understanding the truth. If you cannot make a case for the trinity do not judge me for not understanding it, but if you rebuke me; do not do it in hostility, but show me my error so I can correct it.

Islam loses all credibility with me when they deny Christ died and was raised on the third day. While the trinity concept isnt sufficiently confirmed, the status of Christ as God is pretty well rooted. The root and the offspring of David the bright and morning star. The Alpha and the omega the beginning and the ending the first and the last the almighty. Before Abraham was I am. who being in the very form God, thought it not robbery to be made equal with God. The Word was with God and the word WAS God and nothing that was made was made without him but everything by him. The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.... It goes on and on and on.

And beyond that, Islam refuses to acknowledge that God has a son. I dont think muslims understand the "son(s) of God" concept. Jesus asked Peter who he thought he was. Peter didnt outright say "Thou art God." (although Thomas put his hands in the wounds of the resurrected Jesus' and exclaimed "My Lord and my God!"
Anyways, Peter responded "Thou art the Christ; the son of the living God."
That is the answer I prefer to stick to when addressing this question. Christ responded to it favorably so I have adopted this response.

Islam rejects this.

Islam means "submission to God"
Christians are only submitting to God when they do what he commanded them.
He commanded them to preach the Gospel to every living creature.

Dispelling lies which stand against the truth of God is righteous submission.

In the first century, Jews looked down on the Samaritans. The Samaritans were half Jews who worshiped the same God inasmuch as Christians and Muslims worship the same God. Though the Samaritans had a defective understanding of God and worshiped him contrary to that which was revealed by his servant Moses, Christ thought it good to use the Samaritan in his parable.

I do not boast in conceits over muslims. They are only believing what they understand to be right. My only wish is that they come to know the truth of the Gospel and forsake the false doctrine that has been delivered to them.

Im sure muslims feel the same about us. In the end, we will all stand to give an account before the creator, as it is written in Romans: Who are you to judge another man's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. I wont judge you, but I will rebuke you in hopes of reproof. I rest in the knowledge that Gods will shall be exercised in the end. His will be done. There is no fear that it will fail. I stand by faith that his word is true. the quran contradicts his word. You will say the Bible is doctored and not preserved; but there are scrolls discovered in caves that date back some 3,000-4,000 years that say the exact same thing that we have today. There is a complete Isaiah scroll found in the dead sea caves. Its the same as our Isaiah. Its true the Masorites edited the Tanahk in the middle ages to aid their agenda against the fulfilled scriptures of Christ, but the Septuagint and dead sea scrolls among other prevail as a faithful witness.

I hope muslims come to the truth, but Im not going to be a constant nag. The prophets of old appeared once or twice or rarely such as Moses before pharaoh more times.... Then they stepped aside and allowed God to act after they delivered their warning.

And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, inquire who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence.

And when ye come into an house, salute it.

And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you.

And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city. -Matthew 10:11-15

If we are "tolerant" of things which we know to be wrong, we consent that these things are right. Tolerance of a fundamental error is the betrayal of the fundamental truth. My praises are not of men; but of God. In the end, it is not about disrespecting islam. It is about leading you to salvation in Christ so that you will be spared from the second death. That is all we want for you.

 

[theLords]

Satan and his demons were free to disobey. I must deduct that the rest of the angles are as well, and simply choose not to.

Another example that the god of Muhammad is not the God of the Bible. The God of the Bible created angels with free will. The god of Muhammad created the angels without free will.

 

[theLords]

We simply dont belive that angels have free wil - the only two creations given free wil are humans and Jinn (jinns are what you might consider devils - but not all Jinns are evil, some are christian, some are Jewish, some are Hidu, some are Muslim, some are atheist)

As far as trying to convince you that I worship God the father - you have your mind made up - you can look for all the evidence in the world you like - and if convincing yourself that we Muslims worship a differnet God, this makes you feel more secure in christianity, than I cany convince you otherwise.

Bottom line is - when I pray - I pray to what you know of as God the father - when I read the Bible, I am reading about my God - when you put jesus(AS) along side God in divinity - you are placeing a partner in worship along side Allah. And no matter how many times yu repeat it - I will continue to Worship the God Moses and Abraham and David and John The Babtist Worshipped Alayhi salaatu wa salaam.

For centuries, Christians and Jews agreed that Muslims are part of the Abrahamic line, even the catholic church officially recognizes we worship the God of Abraham - its only recently, that evangelicals, in an attempt to discredit Islam, have invented new theories as to who we worship. This is not a honest appraisal of our religion, but rather a last ditch effort to keep christians from seeing Islam as a viable religion. By telling uneeducated christians that we worship an entirly different God, it keeps them from even looking to Islam for spiritual answers.
It is an effective tactic, but not a truthful tactic.

What makes me secure in my Christianity is the Lord Jesus. I met Him. I'm one of those "miracle conversion, I met the Lord face to face" conversion Christians. We may not be many, but we exist. He is the one and only reason I know I have the Truth. I was a Thomas who put my hands into His pierced hands. And after He gave me life, He made it abundant by becoming my best friend! How could I ever break His heart by leaving Him? How could I break His heart by not sharing the gospel of Truth with the people He loves and died for?

For centuries the Christian Church has lived in limited light. The end times are upon us and so God has increased knowledge. The past generations didn't have the knowledge and resources our present day has.

By showing a Muslim that we do not worship the same God we establish a foundation of Truth. Either a Christian is right or a Muslim is right. Either the Bible in it's entirety is correct or the Qu'ran in it's entirety is correct. It cannot be both.

The God of the Bible and of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob has stated: "I am the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow."

Yesterday - the Jews (Check)
Today - the Christians (Check)
Tomorrow - the Musims (X wrong)

If you worshipped the God of the Bible then you would either be a Jew or a Christian. Muhammad brought a new gospel with a different message. By saying that the Qu'ran is from God you call Him a liar because that means He's not "the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow."

It's not a untruthful tactic in the least bit. It's the path to salvation. In one of your other posts you stated that the Qu'ran says that Jews and Christians don't have to worry about hell fire. This is not what the God of the Bible proclaims. He says that there is only way way to Salvation. Not many. Another example as to why the God of the Bible is not the god of the Qu'ran and Muhammad.

 

[theLords]

So, now, I'll ask again. What is the point of murdering apostates in Islam?

Would you mind answering this question MA? How does a peaceful muslim reconcile such a volatile act?

 

[theLords]

And what is the NT? Isnt that a new gospel! A radical new religion which completely went against the system that God had established with the Jews for thousands of years prior to Paul?

How is it you have a book that is written by men who were not Prophets - yet you call it the word of God - we have a book brought to us by a Prophet - a Prophet who was confirmed as such by both christians and Jews - a Prophet who brought a continuation of the same message brought by previous Prophets. Yet your NT brings a different message - one which is totally contradictory to OT principals

We are not the ones who Teach of a God who is radicaly different - we agree with the OT - our ways are much like the OT - our definitions ,of God are the same as the Jews. However your book and your religion are the ones wich abolish the laws - and add jesus(AS) as a God or a son of God (christians cant decide if the bible says there is a trinity or not) - So our way is a simple continuation of the what all previous prophets brought - we confirm everything David(AS) brought, and Noah(AS) - its christians who have invented a new system - not Muslims.

And you may have misunderstood me before in regards to christians and jews in Hell - their will be christians and jews in heaven - but not all christians and jews will make it there, some, those who openly deny Allah and after being told the truth will receive the punishment of Hellfire.

No, the NT is not a new gospel. It is a mirror image of the OT.

Muslims seem to have such an issue with Paul. "Paul's Gospel" It's absurd! What about Peter? What about James? What about John the Beloved? They walked with Him!

Muhammad was not a prophet of the Judeo-Christian God. The Judeo-Christian God only spoke through the Jewish people. He only called out His prophets from those within the Covenant made to the desendents of Abraham, Isaac (not Ishmael), and Jacob. When Muhammad went to the Jews they rejected him because he was an Arab. So how could he be a prophet of the Lord YWHW? When he went to the Christians he was rejected because he came proclaiming that Christ is not the Son of God. Jesus Christ had specifically told His followers "be careful false prophets will come." You're absolutely wrong in stating that Jews and Christians confirmed him. Muhammad attracted a following through the sword. He broke a peace treaty and brought that city to it's knees. He went conquering making converts out of fear: "convert or die." (So when terrorists act in this manner, they're simply following the ways of their prophet)

Your book was not written by Muhammad. An illiterate? No, it was written by his followers some time after he died!

Your ways are much like the old testament because Muhammad brought a new law simply because he was misinformed about the Jewish Law. Muhammad coming to a Jew turned Christian and trying to say "come back to the Law" Is ridiculous! How do you tell a prisoner to return to his cell once he has been set free? Reading the Qu'ran is like reading a bastardized version of the Holy Bible. Why? Because Muhammad mixed folklore with Bible stories. And mixed Bible story characters with each other. Adam, a giant? He was a little on the confused side.

The Law is not abolished, Jesus did not come to abolish the Law but to fulfill it! Jesus Christ is the Law! He is the Living Law!

There will be Christians and Jews in the Islamic heaven? Then why are the terrorists trying to kill us? Your own god welcomes us into his paradise, who are they to go against him? Well, guess what according to the Judeo-Christian God, the only people who will be in heaven will be those who have called upon the Lamb of God to wash away their sins regardless of the title they name themselves with. Your post further proves they cannot be the same god. One offers "universal" type of salvation and the other offers one narrow path, and one door.

 

[theLords]

If its a mirror image of the OT - than why do the followers and caretakers of the OT reject it? Why do they call it blasphemous? Why is it that you dont follow the law of God - unless you feel you are free from the confines of the law given to man?

1 Corinthians 1:18-25
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written: “ I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, And bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent." Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom; but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.


1 Corinthians 1:18-25
The message about the cross doesn't make any sense to lost people. But for those of us who are being saved, it is God's power at work. As God says in the Scriptures, "I will destroy the wisdom of all who claim to be wise. I will confuse those who think they know so much." What happened to those wise people? What happened to those experts in the Scriptures? What happened to the ones who think they have all the answers? Didn't God show that the wisdom of this world is foolish? God was wise and decided not to let the people of this world use their wisdom to learn about him. Instead, God chose to save only those who believe the foolish message we preach. Jews ask for miracles, and Greeks want something that sounds wise. But we preach that Christ was nailed to a cross. Most Jews have problems with this, and most Gentiles think it is foolish. Our message is God's power and wisdom for the Jews and the Greeks that he has chosen. Even when God is foolish, he is wiser than everyone else, and even when God is weak, he is stronger than everyone else.

The very first Christians were Jews! Some Jews accept, some Jews reject. Same with the Gentiles. There are still Jews to this day coming to know the Lord Jesus. 144,000 will come to know Him during the Tribulation period. And yes I am completely free from the Law, because of Jesus Christ. I must still obey the Lord's commandments, but we are free from the Law.

Tell me, what is the purpose of the Islamic Law?

The whole revealation of the NT is a new foreign system - none of the authors of the NT were Prophets - something required of those bringing new revealattions in the past. We have such a big problem with Paul because he never met Jesus(AS) - why is that ok for you. Paul, a regular man, never met Jesus(AS) - but he can relay the word of God? He can write a letter to the Galatians - and this becomes the unaldultred Word Of God? That is ok with you?

A prophet is a mouth piece of God. Chosen to speak God's words. Prophets are still alive and booming in the Church today. It boils down to semantics. The authors of the NT brought no new revelation. And yes Paul did meet Jesus.

Acts 9:1-9
The Damascus Road: Saul Converted
Then Saul, still breathing threats and murder against the disciples of the Lord, went to the high priest and asked letters from him to the synagogues of Damascus, so that if he found any who were of the Way, whether men or women, he might bring them bound to Jerusalem. As he journeyed he came near Damascus, and suddenly a light shone around him from heaven. Then he fell to the ground, and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?” And he said, “Who are You, Lord?” Then the Lord said, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. It is hard for you to kick against the goads.” So he, trembling and astonished, said, “Lord, what do You want me to do?” Then the Lord said to him, “Arise and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.” And the men who journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice but seeing no one. Then Saul arose from the ground, and when his eyes were opened he saw no one. But they led him by the hand and brought him into Damascus. And he was three days without sight, and neither ate nor drank.

I have said it before and I will say it again. I do not believe in Jesus Christ because of the Bible. I believe in the Bible because of Jesus Christ.

You speak of the Quran not being written down and compiled by Muhamed(SAW) - but it was compiled by men who actualy sat with him and memorized his words - the originals have been preserved, so if any corruptins have creeped in we can correct them (which none have ever creeped in ) - When was the bible compiled? if I was a christian living in 100 ad - what book would I read from? the time difference between the compilation of the Quran and the compilation of your modern bible is vastly different - those who compiled the Quran sat with Muhamed(SAW) those who compiled the bible lived 300 years after Jesus(AS)

The Holy Bible was through Divine Inspiration. How can I believe it so easily? Because I have experienced the Lord's Divine Inspiration in my own life. Those same men who memorized the words of Muhammad seemed to forget some of them at later points in their life. If a Christian was living in 100 AD they had the OT, and thrived under the miracles surrounding them. They had personal contact with God on a daily basis. The Lord compiled the Bible and gave it to the world in His time frame. He's not accountable to the demands of men's perceptions of how things should be carried out in matters of religion.

The protestant christian system is brand new - never in the history of Man has God revealed and conducted religion in the manner that you practice - never has God asked his creations to worship another beside Him, never has God begotten offspring - and God never even mentioned that he would beget offfspring. No where in the OT is Jesus(AS) mentioned by name - and nowhere in the NT does it say the coming Jewish Messiah would be half god half man (wait, the greeks used to hold that belif with their idols, and the greeks were the ones who took over christianity, and the oldest surviving texts arent in Hebrew, or Aramaic, but greek - thats odd)

The Protestant Christian Church worships in the same way that the OT Jews did. Gathering in assembly with musical instruments, making a joyful noise before the Lord, dancing in His presence the same way King David did. Absolutely nothing new. God is not asking His creation to worship another God. That is unBiblical. My God is a Jealous God and won't allow someone else to steal what rightfully belongs to Him. Never has God begotten offspring, absolutely right. Jesus wasn't created. The OT does not reveal Jesus' name, but does record His many interactions with His people. Jesus is not half man and half God. He is fully God and fully man. BIG, BIG, BIG difference. The BT was written in greek because it was the common language of the time. If it was written only in Hebrew or Aramaic the Gentile would have been excluded from it's message and salvation. It's more coincidental, in fact, that the Qu'ran was written in Arabic. A language only certain people groups spoke. This limits those people who have access to it. How many new converts speak sounds with no meaning in their prayers every day when speaking in a tongue that is not their own. The early Catholic Church did the same thing to it's people. This is how they kept them in the dark so they could control them.

Muhamed(SAW) was confirmed by several Jewish and christian clerics who were his contemporaries - Salman Al Farsi (RA) - Waraqh bin ANwafal - Rabbi Abdullah ibn Salaima - Rabbi Hussayn ibn Psyllium. The jews and christians who met Muhamed(SAW) accepted him as a Prophet inn the abrahamic lineage. And even modern jews accept that Prophethood is not confined to just the Jewish lineage. In addition, many of the Jews of Arabia recognozed many of the arabs as decendants of Isaac(AS).

Using the Qu'ran and Muhammad to validate Muhammad's prophethood, is the same as the evolutionists proclaiming that "this bone is from this era because it was found in this layer of the earth, and this layer of the earth is from this time because this bone was found in this layer of the earth." It's simply circular reasoning. The Holy Spirit testifies to man about Jesus. God reveals God.

Isaiah 55:9
"As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts."

How can fallen man ever understand the complexity of God? Only God can reveal God.