Christians are to follow Jesus' steps 1 Pet 2:21, how?

[miamited]

Hi gordon777

If anyone is joined to a church that has millions of members, all around them are unknown people in their church, they cannot have an idea who they really are, what they do, but they are one body with them anyway.

It's a tough lesson, and one that our sinful hearts are loath to learn...we cannot control how others live their lives. I think the Scriptures are pretty clear that we're going to have unbelievers, unrepentant sinners who join with us. Now, if we know that they are living a sinful life, then I think there is evidence that we can address that. But to just go around trying to make sure that we're always with perfect people who love the Lord by some sort of test that one might individually apply to everyone in their fellowship, is not something I find taught clearly in the Scriptures. In fact, I'd say that God has given us provision to accept them and pray for them and to teach them. But yes, eventually, if they persist in some obvious sin, then they can be put out of fellowship. But there is a method to that process.

So, if your complaint is that you just can't know the true heart of everyone standing around you in a worship service and therefore think you are somehow sinning before God to be among them, I'd say yes, if it's the leadership of the fellowship that is rotten, but no if it's just some congregants. You don't know that one day that congregant sitting among you, won't understand and believe. If, on the other hand the leadership teaches some different gospel or Scripturally bereft message, or harbors some sinful attitudes, I'd take myself out of them and not take them out of me. I'd leave that fellowship.

God bless,
Ted

 

[Highway54]

I did. No mention of salvation based on our capacity. Did you read them?? If so, why can’t you point out the words that you insist say that? Why just respond with “read it?” It’s because it’s NOT THERE so you can’t point it out.

Likely you just overlooked it, I put it in bold this time:
(Matthew 25:15) . . .He gave five talents to one, two to another, and one to still another, to each according to his own ability, and he went abroad.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Christians are to follow Jesus' steps 1 Pet 2:21, how?

The Gospels are the best way to come to know Jesus. They contain a historical account of the life and ministry of Jesus. They show us what he did, said, felt, and taught his followers. In effect, they contain those footsteps we are to follow.

To benefit fully from the Gospels, we must do more than just read them. We need to study them carefully and meditate on them as well. When studying them bring them to life, picture yourself among his disciples as he taught them, and observe the assignments he gave them. Imitate his footsteps in your life. Use your imagination to see, hear, and feel what was happening.

"But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you. (Jn. 14:26 NKJ)

Picturing myself there, I'm meditating on "the Helper" Jesus will send.

"He" will teach me all things. An active force like electricity cannot teach, only a person can. Also, the Father will send "Him", like a Person is "sent", "Whom" not 'it".

Impersonal electrical force cannot teach AND bring (by pointing out what Jesus said) to remembrance, only a Person can, a Teacher who is Helping me!


AND "He" has a name, "The Holy Spirit", that cannot be the name of electricity.

Electricity cannot be called a "Helper" nor can the pronoun "He" refer to electric shock.

So how are you following Jesus when you claim "The Holy Spirit" is like an impersonal electrical force?

That is NOT what Jesus taught!

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Likely you just overlooked it, I put it in bold this time:
(Matthew 25:15) . . .He gave five talents to one, two to another, and one to still another, to each according to his own ability, and he went abroad.

where is “he gave SALVATION each according to his ability?” It says he gave TALENTS, not salvation. Do you frequently change out words substituting the ones you prefer?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I do understand where you are coming from Gordon, but I have observed it. It is true we are imperfect, and brothers and sisters from other areas of the earth do have different customs, but we all worship Jehovah in unity sir, you don't really think the Bible can be wrong do you?

Most Christians worship God, not the manufactured misname “Jehovah.” The Bible uses YHWH which is a far cry from that made up name.

 

[Highway54]

"But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you. (Jn. 14:26 NKJ)

Picturing myself there, I'm meditating on "the Helper" Jesus will send.

"He" will teach me all things. An active force like electricity cannot teach, only a person can. Also, the Father will send "Him", like a Person is "sent", "Whom" not 'it".

Impersonal electrical force cannot teach AND bring (by pointing out what Jesus said) to remembrance, only a Person can, a Teacher who is Helping me!


AND "He" has a name, "The Holy Spirit", that cannot be the name of electricity.

Electricity cannot be called a "Helper" nor can the pronoun "He" refer to electric shock.

So how are you following Jesus when you claim "The Holy Spirit" is like an impersonal electrical force?

That is NOT what Jesus taught!

God's holy spirit is used in many ways, for us it is used to animate living beings, it was used in creation, as you mentioned it is used as a helper for us, which I might add that Jesus did send to them a short time later, so was it a being when that was fulfilled on Pentecost 33 CE? It was used to inspire the writing of the Bible, and no doubt in the compiling of it. It is through holy spirit that God reveals His word to the faithful slave during this time, which has been assigned to feed God's sheep. In several places in the Bible pronouns such as he are assigned to non beings. An example is found in Proverbs 8 for wisdom, but I will say, we believe that wisdom is Jesus Alfred.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

God's holy spirit is used in many ways, for us it is used to animate living beings, it was used in creation, as you mentioned it is used as a helper for us, which I might add that Jesus did send to them a short time later, so was it a being when that was fulfilled on Pentecost 33 CE? It was used to inspire the writing of the Bible, and no doubt in the compiling of it. It is through holy spirit that God reveals His word to the faithful slave during this time, which has been assigned to feed God's sheep. In several places in the Bible pronouns such as he are assigned to non beings. An example is found in Proverbs 8 for wisdom, but I will say, we believe that wisdom is Jesus Alfred.

I just need to point out to others that the leaders of the JWs have acquired the title “faithful slave” to their followers. This hides the power they wield as demonstrated in the above assumption that they alone receive from the HS understanding. This is very typical of cults. So if you read “faithful slave” you know you’re dealing with a JW.

 

[Alfred Persson]

God's holy spirit is used in many ways, for us it is used to animate living beings, it was used in creation, as you mentioned it is used as a helper for us, which I might add that Jesus did send to them a short time later, so was it a being when that was fulfilled on Pentecost 33 CE? It was used to inspire the writing of the Bible, and no doubt in the compiling of it. It is through holy spirit that God reveals His word to the faithful slave during this time, which has been assigned to feed God's sheep. In several places in the Bible pronouns such as he are assigned to non beings. An example is found in Proverbs 8 for wisdom, but I will say, we believe that wisdom is Jesus Alfred.

We both want to know what Jesus taught and believe Him above everyone else, because we trust He tells the truth.

I was picturing myself there at His feet, as you suggested, because I hoped to "understand how He viewed the Holy Spirit", whether the Holy Spirit is a Person or an impersonal force that animates living beings.

It would seem from calling Him "Helper", that Jesus did not view the Holy Spirit as an animating principle.

Read again the various way Jesus described the Holy Spirit.

NOT ONCE does His words convey the idea the Holy Spirit is an "animating principle in living beings":


"But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you. (Jn. 14:26 NKJ)

Picturing myself there, I'm meditating on "the Helper" Jesus will send.

"He" will teach me all things. An active force like electricity cannot teach, only a person can. Also, the Father will send "Him", like a Person is "sent", "Whom" not 'it".

Impersonal electrical force cannot teach AND bring (by pointing out what Jesus said) to remembrance, only a Person can, a Teacher who is Helping me!


AND "He" has a name, "The Holy Spirit", that cannot be the name of electricity.

Electricity cannot be called a "Helper" nor can the pronoun "He" refer to electric shock.

 

[Highway54]

where is “he gave SALVATION each according to his ability?” It says he gave TALENTS, not salvation. Do you frequently change out words substituting the ones you prefer?

May I ask what it is you believe Jesus is talking about maam?

 

[Highway54]

Most Christians worship God, not the manufactured misname “Jehovah.” The Bible uses YHWH which is a far cry from that made up name.

Why then is every other word in your sentences in English maam? Is it not true you have a bias against the name of God in English? Who prevented the translators of the KJV from removing it completely? Do you know of any English Bible that was able to remove it completely maam? I don't, but if you know of one, I would be interested in finding out if it is possible.

 

[Highway54]

I just need to point out to others that the leaders of the JWs have acquired the title “faithful slave” to their followers. This hides the power they wield as demonstrated in the above assumption that they alone receive from the HS understanding. This is very typical of cults. So if you read “faithful slave” you know you’re dealing with a JW.

It is true that Gods people will have a different language than others maam Zeph 3:9. So there will be terms exclusive to them, but faithful slave/servant is a Biblical term that is found in all versions of the Bible. In giving the signs of the last days to his apostles, Jesus stated very clearly that he would assign a faithful slave in his absence to feed his sheep. Mat 24:45-47. We are quite deep into the last days Dorothy, so it is quite easy to identify that assigned shepherd, as well as to identify the faith. Educating His people has always been a priority with God, and during these last days it is still a priority, take note of Isa 2:2-4 to see for yourself maam.

So are you able to identify those who are prophesied by that passage Dorothy? Kinda obvious isn't it?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

It is true that Gods people will have a different language than others maam Zeph 3:9. So there will be terms exclusive to them, but faithful slave/servant is a Biblical term that is found in all versions of the Bible. In giving the signs of the last days to his apostles, Jesus stated very clearly that he would assign a faithful slave in his absence to feed his sheep. Mat 24:45-47. We are quite deep into the last days Dorothy, so it is quite easy to identify that assigned shepherd, as well as to identify the faith. Educating His people has always been a priority with God, and during these last days it is still a priority, take note of Isa 2:2-4 to see for yourself maam.

So are you able to identify those who are prophesied by that passage Dorothy? Kinda obvious isn't it?

Please quote “faithful slave to whom the Holy Spirit gives understanding,” sir.

The last days started 2000 years ago. For interesting reading, look into all the dates the JWs predicted Jesus was coming and they waited on a hillside.

And the Bible says YHWH, that’s the truth.

Please quote exactly where you think Math 24 supports your JW faithful “slave” you need to obey, sir.

 

[Highway54]

We both want to know what Jesus taught and believe Him above everyone else, because we trust He tells the truth.

I was picturing myself there at His feet, as you suggested, because I hoped to "understand how He viewed the Holy Spirit", whether the Holy Spirit is a Person or an impersonal force that animates living beings.

It would seem from calling Him "Helper", that Jesus did not view the Holy Spirit as an animating principle.

Read again the various way Jesus described the Holy Spirit.

NOT ONCE does His words convey the idea the Holy Spirit is an "animating principle in living beings":


"But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you. (Jn. 14:26 NKJ)

Picturing myself there, I'm meditating on "the Helper" Jesus will send.

"He" will teach me all things. An active force like electricity cannot teach, only a person can. Also, the Father will send "Him", like a Person is "sent", "Whom" not 'it".

Impersonal electrical force cannot teach AND bring (by pointing out what Jesus said) to remembrance, only a Person can, a Teacher who is Helping me!


AND "He" has a name, "The Holy Spirit", that cannot be the name of electricity.

Electricity cannot be called a "Helper" nor can the pronoun "He" refer to electric shock.

It would seem from calling Him "Helper", that Jesus did not view the Holy Spirit as an animating principle.

Do you feel the outpouring of the holy spirit on Pentecost was the fulfillment of Jesus sending the helper Alfred? If you do, then merely observe what happened when he came?

The holy spirit is not named, and as I pointed out is used in various ways. Did you know that Jesus was not given holy spirit until his return to heaven, I found that interesting when I first discovered it Acts 2:33

 

[Highway54]

Please quote “faithful slave to whom the Holy Spirit gives understanding,” sir.

The last days started 2000 years ago. For interesting reading, look into all the dates the JWs predicted Jesus was coming and they waited on a hillside.

And the Bible says YHWH, that’s the truth.

Please quote exactly where you think Math 24 supports your JW faithful “slave” you need to obey, sir.

No need maam, you choose. I would recommend you consider the account of Korah however.

Oh by the way, do you have an example from the publications as to when Jesus was or is coming maam?

 

[Alfred Persson]

Do you feel the outpouring of the holy spirit on Pentecost was the fulfillment of Jesus sending the helper Alfred? If you do, then merely observe what happened when he came?

The holy spirit is not named, and as I pointed out is used in various ways. Did you know that Jesus was not given holy spirit until his return to heaven, I found that interesting when I first discovered it Acts 2:33

The Greek word "pour" (1632 ἐκχέω ekcheo) can be used without implying someone is not a person:

(III) Metaphorically in the pass. or mid., to be poured out, spoken of persons, i.e., intrans., to pour forth, rush tumultuously (cf. Sept.: Judg. 9:44; 20:37). In the NT, spoken metaphorically of a passion or direction of the mind, to rush into, give oneself up to (Jude 1:11). -Zodhiates, S. (2000). In The complete word study dictionary: New Testament (electronic ed.). AMG Publishers.

In the three examples given we see that clearly. Its used of persons "pouring themselves out", "rushing forward", "coming forth" or "rushing headlong", yet in no case does this imply these are "liquids" or "like electricity" and not "a Person":

And Abimelech and the chiefs of companies that were with him rushed forward, and stood by the door of the gate of the city; and the two other companies rushed forward (1632 ἐκχέω ekcheo) upon all that were in the field, and smote them. (Jdg. 9:44 LXA)

And when they retreated, then the liers in wait rose up, and they moved toward Gabaa, and the whole ambush came forth (1632 ἐκχέω ekcheo), and they smote the city with the edge of the sword. (Jdg. 20:37 LXA)

Woe to them! For they have gone the way of Cain, and for pay they have rushed headlong (1632 ἐκχέω ekcheo), into the error of Balaam, and perished in the rebellion of Korah. (Jude 1:11 NAU)


Can such ignorance of the Greek and Infinite God be evidence Christ is a "false teacher?"

For He certainly knows the difference between a Person who Helps and an active force like electricity!

Everything Christ said requires the Holy Spirit is a Person:

NOT ONCE does His words convey the idea the Holy Spirit is an "animating principle in living beings":

"But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you. (Jn. 14:26 NKJ)

"He" will teach me all things. An active force like electricity cannot teach, only a person can. Also, the Father will send "Him", like a Person is "sent", "Whom" not 'it".

Impersonal electrical force cannot teach AND bring (by pointing out what Jesus said) to remembrance, only a Person can, a Teacher who is Helping me!

AND "He" has a name, "The Holy Spirit", that cannot be the name of electricity.

Electricity cannot be called a "Helper" nor can the pronoun "He" refer to electric shock.

Nothing is impossible for Infinite Almighty God.

Foolish men in the WatchTower may deem something impossible for God, but Christ says it is not!!!

But Jesus looked at them and said to them, "With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."
(Matt. 19:26 NKJ)

AND in this case, its possible men be "poured out rushing forward" and still be PERSONS!!!

 

[Dorothy Mae]

No need maam, you choose. I would recommend you consider the account of Korah however.

I can see why no JW wants to know how often the organization resoundingly predicted Jesus return and it didn’t happen.

Oh by the way, do you have an example from the publications as to when Jesus was or is coming maam?

You really want to know?

 

[Highway54]

The Greek word "pour" (1632 ἐκχέω ekcheo) can be used without implying someone is not a person:

(III) Metaphorically in the pass. or mid., to be poured out, spoken of persons, i.e., intrans., to pour forth, rush tumultuously (cf. Sept.: Judg. 9:44; 20:37). In the NT, spoken metaphorically of a passion or direction of the mind, to rush into, give oneself up to (Jude 1:11). -Zodhiates, S. (2000). In The complete word study dictionary: New Testament (electronic ed.). AMG Publishers.

In the three examples given we see that clearly. Its used of persons "pouring themselves out", "rushing forward", "coming forth" or "rushing headlong", yet in no case does this imply these are "liquids" or "like electricity" and not "a Person":

And Abimelech and the chiefs of companies that were with him rushed forward, and stood by the door of the gate of the city; and the two other companies rushed forward (1632 ἐκχέω ekcheo) upon all that were in the field, and smote them. (Jdg. 9:44 LXA)

And when they retreated, then the liers in wait rose up, and they moved toward Gabaa, and the whole ambush came forth (1632 ἐκχέω ekcheo), and they smote the city with the edge of the sword. (Jdg. 20:37 LXA)

Woe to them! For they have gone the way of Cain, and for pay they have rushed headlong (1632 ἐκχέω ekcheo), into the error of Balaam, and perished in the rebellion of Korah. (Jude 1:11 NAU)


Can such ignorance of the Greek and Infinite God be evidence Christ is a "false teacher?"

For He certainly knows the difference between a Person who Helps and an active force like electricity!

Everything Christ said requires the Holy Spirit is a Person:

NOT ONCE does His words convey the idea the Holy Spirit is an "animating principle in living beings":

"But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you. (Jn. 14:26 NKJ)

"He" will teach me all things. An active force like electricity cannot teach, only a person can. Also, the Father will send "Him", like a Person is "sent", "Whom" not 'it".

Impersonal electrical force cannot teach AND bring (by pointing out what Jesus said) to remembrance, only a Person can, a Teacher who is Helping me!

AND "He" has a name, "The Holy Spirit", that cannot be the name of electricity.

Electricity cannot be called a "Helper" nor can the pronoun "He" refer to electric shock.

Nothing is impossible for Infinite Almighty God.

Foolish men in the WatchTower may deem something impossible for God, but Christ says it is not!!!

But Jesus looked at them and said to them, "With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."
(Matt. 19:26 NKJ)

AND in this case, its possible men be "poured out rushing forward" and still be PERSONS!!!

I think I made my point Alfred, when Jesus sent the helper, it did not come in a personal form. When God inspired the Bible penmen through holy spirit, a being did not come to them and quote what is to be written. When holy spirit reveals God's truths today to the faithful slave, a being is not sent to them. And no, the holy spirit does not have a name recorded in the Bible sir.

Although your bias of my faith is evident, that verse is used regularly throughout our publications as well and is included in the New World Translation: (Matthew 19:26) . . .Looking at them intently, Jesus said to them: “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

 

[Highway54]

I can see why no JW wants to know how often the organization resoundingly predicted Jesus return and it didn’t happen.

You really want to know?

You really want to know?

Sure, I asked didn't I.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Sure, I asked didn't I.

Why haven’t you researched your organization?

 

[Alfred Persson]

I think I made my point Alfred, when Jesus sent the helper, it did not come in a personal form. When God inspired the Bible penmen through holy spirit, a being did not come to them and quote what is to be written. When holy spirit reveals God's truths today to the faithful slave, a being is not sent to them. And no, the holy spirit does not have a name recorded in the Bible sir.

Although your bias of my faith is evident, that verse is used regularly throughout our publications as well and is included in the New World Translation: (Matthew 19:26) . . .Looking at them intently, Jesus said to them: “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

Bias? You repeated the Society's "pour" argument; I refuted it proving even men are "poured out" and yet remain persons, not active forces.

I am shocked by your comment. I thought you would address the argument, not accuse me of bias.