Christians? Using self-defense and Guns?

[Jesse]

Maybe because it takes 20 years to execute. Criminals are pro gun control.

Hmmm...maybe that is so, you would still think it would be a detourant. Maybe people like the idea of being locked up.

Yes, criminals don't want any of us having guns, either does the gov't....oh, wait...same thing...haha j/k

 

[Deborah13]

Proverbs 24:11 Deliver those who are drawn toward death, And hold back those stumbling to the slaughter.
I found this website as well- "Biblical Self-Defense"
http://www.biblicalselfdefense.com/

This is a good article, thanks.

Ex 21:12 He that smiteth a man so that he die shall surely be put to death. This is the grounds for capital punishment.

Ex. 21:15 He that smiteth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death. This is God's protection for the home.

Ex 21:16 He that stealeth a man and selleth him or if he be found in his hand shall surely be put to death. The list goes on... Where do you think government got their ideas from. We're to busy trying to reform criminals. Imagine if there was an instant death penalty for stealing today. Maybe the world would be different if we listened to God's advice.

Ex 21:16 is not talking about theft. "He that stealeth a man" this is talking about kidnapping a person.

 

[Northman]

So is shooting the creep. The law allows for self defense. Who set up governments? God.

The governing authorities where i dwell do not allow for such action. Is this really God doing this or is this like everything else human?

 

[FreeGrace]

There was a study done sometime ago that suggested states where death penalty laws are in effect, their crime is actually higher.

No doubt many more studies that say the opposite. Who did that study?

 

[FreeGrace]

The governing authorities where i dwell do not allow for such action.

I have no idea where you dwell, but the concept of self defense is a basic right. Any government that removes self defense from its citizens is a totalitarian one. And evil. God set up governments and gave mankind the blueprint for proper government. There are many evil ones in the world today who hate God's blueprint and only want to enslave their populace.

Is this really God doing this or is this like everything else human?

Man always corrupts what God plans.

 

[Doulos Iesou]

Humans are spiritual beings and when Jesus talks about the sword, it is the Spirit of Truth that slashes through the bull.

You are not a corporeal being, you are flesh and blood.

 

[Doulos Iesou]

I wish it were easy as that, but people don't see people as a possible child as our heavenly Father. They see threat and want to remove the threat.

Not everyone is a child of God, only those who are adopted through faith in Christ.

 

[Doulos Iesou]

Every time He evaded crowds that wanted to kill Him is a form of self-defense. ;)

That's more of a passive form of self-defense, not violent in any way so it doesn't really apply to the topic at hand.

 

[Doulos Iesou]

There was a study done sometime ago that suggested states where death penalty laws are in effect, their crime is actually higher.

No distinction can be drawn from such a study to find causation versus correlation. Perhaps there is simply an environment for more crime in these states, which has nothing to do with the death penalty, as it only applies to the most heinous of crimes.

Don't get me wrong, I am not a supporter of the death penalty. Just saying.

 

[Jesse]

No doubt many more studies that say the opposite. Who did that study?

I really have no idea, we studied it in a psych/sociology class in high school.

 

[Jesse]

No distinction can be drawn from such a study to find causation versus correlation. Perhaps there is simply an environment for more crime in these states, which has nothing to do with the death penalty, as it only applies to the most heinous of crimes.

Don't get me wrong, I am not a supporter of the death penalty. Just saying.

You could very well be spot on. I do believe anyone can make a statistic say whatever they want it to say.

 

[LovethroughDove]

I wish it were easy as that, but people don't see people as a possible child as our heavenly Father. They see threat and want to remove the threat.

I had said "possible child".

 

[th1b.taylor]

Guns do not kill people, if an idiot is on the other end of a gun it might be used to murder someone. A gun also, in the hands of the Good Man, has the usefulness to be used to save many more lives than it has ever been used to end. People are evil, the gun is a tool just as my nail guns were when I built homes and is the steering wheel on the Concrete Mixer I ended my working career driving.

The world with guns is not a safe place to live but it is safer to live in if you and I own a gun with which to protect our wives and youngsters. Neither you, I nor the government will ever disarm criminals and to believe we can is intentional stupidity and such is inexcusable. What the world needs is real Christians that, personally know and daily study the scriptures to the point that they, actually, understand what God has had recorded for our, individual and collective, edification.

I must be getting old as I am to be 70 next month because I am losing my my ability to ignore the intentional stupidity that is rampant in the world today. Cause? People, many of them claiming the name of Christ for their own are lazy, period and unlike the Great Pretender, I mean it.

I only, to this date, have received flak for my position statement on the Bible from one ¿Bible? Teacher and some laymen. The Bible Jesus authored (John 1:1-5) is the Jewish Believer's versions a.k.a. the first 39 books of the Christian versions making the following 27 the best and perhaps only God inspired Commentary on the Bible.

And, yet, the bulk of the fat sides of mankind, parked on a pew or a chair, on any Sunday Morning has never read through the Bible Jesus, Paul, Peter and the other Church Fathers taught from.

I, so, upset the Peace Nicks when I mention King David, Samson and Abraham and their endeavors to protect the innocent. People, actually, believe the Bible has nothing to do with the New Testament. This is, partially, due to the Ear Tickling Liars in the Pulpits, partially due to the lack of personal study and fully do to the prophetic verses of Romans 1.

When Accepted Hermeneutics are understood and applied to a Bible study, verses are not extracted from their context to make, most often, false points. There are Key Verses through out the Bible that codify the lesson being taught in a chapter, book or paragraph.

However man is not smart enough to out think God, the Creator and yet Matthew 7:1, the first verse, not the key verse and yet, because of the world's influence, it is most often the only verse taught from the chapter. But if we read, to study, the entire chapter (minimum) we find that Jesus commanded us to clean our own mess (life) up and to righteously judge others.

The same is true of the sword! One verse, the one the peace nics want to be the key verse, is extracted, corkscrewed and used to teach lies. When Jesus sent His Disciples out He told to, if they did not own one, to sell their cloak anmd to buy a sword.

Sorry, but you are wrong, this verse does apply because all of us have loved ones and things we must protect at some point.

May God bless each of us with His truth, Amen!

 

[LovethroughDove]

A man is not a "Good man" if he is taking any life. Any life can be turned around and you are right, it is not our place to judge. We cannot tell what God has planned for a person, even if they seem REALLY evil. A Good man will give anyone the chance to make it right.

We are supposed to be "Christians", that means we are Christ in the earth and do as he did. He didn't "protect" his loved ones with weapons, as a matter of fact...weren't all the apostles martyred? But not in a jihadist way, because Allah is not our God.

We lay down our lives, pick up the cross. I agree with you 100% that people don't know what the bible says or the purpose, or the message and meaning of the cross.

The only part that Jesus mentions a weapon is the cloak and sword, but I was asking Blake if that was just to fulfill some kind of prophecy? because in Luke 22:37-38 It is written: 'And he was numbered with the transgressors', and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment." The disciples said, "See Lord, here are two swords." "That is enough," he replied.

 

[Doulos Iesou]

A man is not a "Good man" if he is taking any life.

Was David a bad man for killing Goliath?

Any life can be turned around and you are right, it is not our place to judge. We cannot tell what God has planned for a person, even if they seem REALLY evil. A Good man will give anyone the chance to make it right.

Sometimes circumstances do not allow for such, if my family was being attacked and potentially killed, I wouldn't meditate on God's purpose for this man. I would be a lot more concerned for the safety of my own family that God has given me to protect and provide for. There would be no hesitation, but only the will to act, even with hazard to my own life.

We are supposed to be "Christians", that means we are Christ in the earth and do as he did. He didn't "protect" his loved ones with weapons, as a matter of fact...weren't all the apostles martyred? But not in a jihadist way, because Allah is not our God.

None were killed in his presence, and it is different when it comes to persecution on account of our faith, and an evil person who intends only to harm for some sick perverted reason.

 

[LovethroughDove]

Was David a bad man for killing Goliath?

That was before the cross.

I wouldn't meditate on God's purpose for this man. I would be a lot more concerned for the safety of my own family that God has given me to protect and provide for.

Your family is not yours. My children belong to God and no matter what happens here, they are his.

And to his disciples, he warned them:

He warned them while he was with them Matthew 16:23-26 Jesus turned to Peter, "Get behind me Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men." Then Jesus said to his disciples, "If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will find it. What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul?

 

[Doulos Iesou]

That was before the cross.

Was the Jesus who accepted David killing Goliath different after the Cross?

Your family is not yours. My children belong to God and no matter what happens here, they are his.

And to his disciples, he warned them:

He warned them while he was with them Matthew 16:23-26 Jesus turned to Peter, "Get behind me Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men." Then Jesus said to his disciples, "If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will find it. What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul?

But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever. 1 Timothy 5:8 (ESV)

He must manage his own household well, with all dignity keeping his children submissive, for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God’s church? 1 Timothy 3:4-5 (ESV)

The pronoun "his" is the possessive form of "he" and is used to express belonging. It is perfectly Biblical to call my family, my own. Or was Paul mistaken when he used this pronoun?

I am responsible for my family, and if they are harmed due to my failure to act and protect them then I will be held responsible for such. How could one claim to not defend their wife or daughter in the instance of sexual assault? Would you watch and simply plead? Their body is the Temple of the Holy Spirit, and I would have righteous indignation to protect them as they are so valuable to myself and God.

 

[LovethroughDove]

It seems like you are using Timothy as an excuse to "kill" someone? Correct me if I'm wrong. Timothy is exhortation in raising a family up in God.

How do you see?? Luke 16:26 "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, and his wife and children, his brothers and sisters - yes, even his own life - he cannot be my disciple.

I see it as if you put any of these slightly above God, you will really "hate" God. Because if you lose anyone who has been put above God........you will end up hating God because of it.

And, why have the cross..............if nothing is different than what happened in the Old Testament

 

[Doulos Iesou]

It seems like you are using Timothy as an excuse to "kill" someone? Correct me if I'm wrong. Timothy is exhortation in raising a family up in God.

It is rather disingenuous for you to misrepresent my statement.

I didn't use Timothy "as an excuse to kill someone," I used the text to refute the notion that a person's family is not his in a possessive sense.

How do you see?? Luke 16:26 "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, and his wife and children, his brothers and sisters - yes, even his own life - he cannot be my disciple.

I see it as if you put any of these slightly above God, you will really "hate" God. Because if you lose anyone who has been put above God........you will end up hating God because of it.

I see it as valuing God above all others, and making him first.

What I don't see in that text is that I should allow them to be raped or murdered if I had the power to prevent it.

And, why have the cross..............if nothing is different than what happened in the Old Testament

My point is that the immutable God did not change, the New Covenant Kingdom was brought about, but God's zeal for his people and his righteous indignation against those who do evil is still the same.

 

[LovethroughDove]

It is rather disingenuous for you to misrepresent my statement.

I didn't use Timothy "as an excuse to kill someone," I used the text to refute the notion that a person's family is not his in a possessive sense.

That is why I wanted you to correct me, if I was wrong.

I see it as valuing God above all others, and making him first.

What I don't see in that text is that I should allow them to be raped or murdered if I had the power to prevent it.

Not disagreeing with you, just not going right to "harming the person" harming my family.

My point is that the immutable God did not change, the New Covenant Kingdom was brought about, but God's zeal for his people and his righteous indignation against those who do evil is still the same.

Again, not disagreeing with you, but the New Covenant added "Love one another as I have loved you" and "Love does no harm"