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Church of Christ a cult ?

jgredline said:
Jeff
Just so I am clear I will ask you a couple of yes or no questions questions.

Do you believe it is necessary to believe that Jesus is God for salvation?

Do you believe Jesus is God?

Sorry, I don't mean to hijack your thread, but your remark in this thread brought up a red flag....

Javier,
Please don’t take this the wrong way, but I don’t feel like answering your questions since they were based on my response to MEC and if my response to MEC generated your questions, then you have read way more into what I had written than was intended.

But to clarify the Red Flag, which I’m assuming came from my “Per se†comment, let me simply state that I am not MEC’s judge and if he chooses not to embrace the idea of the trinity; like many of us do believe in the Trinity (including myself), then who am I to force or argue my belief or understanding on him? Does this mean that MEC is not saved? It really is not my place to make that assumption because you see, I can’t find it in scripture where a person has to come to the full understanding of the trinity (which we are incapable of doing anyway and will remain a mystery until the day of the Lord) to receive salvation from a per se perspective.

Now, personally, I believe that we are in the process of being saved. Some call this being sanctified because we all like to think that there is this line in the sand that we can point to and say that we’re saved, so let’s just use the word sanctified for conformity ok? Now, when you “Accepted†Christ into your heart and thus you were “Savedâ€Â, did you believe in the trinity? Thus, is the belief in the trinity truly a salvation issue or is it simply a deeper understanding of who Christ is,.. furthering and assisting in our sanctification / relationship with, in and through Christ Jesus our Lord? I trust that it is the later.

Now, will you read my reply at face value or do you need further clarification?

Peace in Christ
Jeff
 
Jeff - I like the way you answered that and the spirit in which it was written, to me, says more than the words themselves.

The Lord bless you.
 
It was nice and smooth; was is not....I knew you would be happy with it as well as Mec and many Mormans and JW as well would appreciate it.... :wink:
 
jgredline said:
It was nice and smooth; was is not....I knew you would be happy with it as well as Mec and many Mormans and JW as well would appreciate it.... :wink:

I would say that Jeff understands that salvation is by faith and as Romans 4 says, Who are you to judge someone elses servant. To his own master he stands or falls. :D
 
jgredline said:
Mutz and Jeff
Who is the only one who can forgive sins?

Faulty premise. The pharisees said that only God can forgive sin.

Jesus said that God had given him (the son of man) the authority.

As scripture says, "God exalted him to his own right hand as Prince and Savior that he might give repentance and forgiveness of sins . . ."
 
mutzrein said:
Faulty premise. The pharisees said that only God can forgive sin.

Jesus said that God had given him (the son of man) the authority.

As scripture says, "God exalted him to his own right hand as Prince and Savior that he might give repentance and forgiveness of sins . . ."

Please provide the scriptures you used.
 
Is this what you want?

Acts 5:31 God exalted him to his own right hand as Prince and Savior that he might give repentance and forgiveness of sins to Israel.

Mark 2:10 "But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins . . . ."

John 17:2 "Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him."

John 5:26-28 "For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son to have life in himself. And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man."
 
Javier said:
Jeff
Thats what I thought. Well, I guess I am not surprised. I for one will not love people into hell....

Javier,
I’ll extend you the same charity that I extended to MEC.
May God give you a blessed day.

Jeff


The Lord said to his disciples: "This I command you, to love one another. If
the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you. If you were
of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the
world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.
Remember the word that I said to you, 'A servant is not greater than his
master.'
If they persecuted me, they will persecute you; if they kept my word,
they will keep yours also

For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
 
jgredline said:
Mutz and Jeff
Who is the only one who can forgive sins?

"Father forgive them..." (Luke 23:34) - forgiveness comes from the influence of the Soul, not the Body. Man, also, has to be raised above the sphere of the body before he can forgive.

Harry :fadein:
 
jgredline said:
Atleast I do not deny Jesus is God to please man :wink:

Are you saying that my response to MEC was for the gratification of MEC? You have utterly missed it again... Would you rather that I please you by responding to MEC with harsh words? or would you rathar that I speak my heart in the matter and by speaking my heart on the matter, why do you now become my judge with such condemning eyes?
 
StoveBolts said:
Are you saying that my response to MEC was for the gratification of MEC? You have utterly missed it again... Would you rather that I please you by responding to MEC with harsh words? or would you rathar that I speak my heart in the matter and by speaking my heart on the matter, why do you now become my judge with such condemning eyes?

First of all Jeff, you just finished judging me and falsey accusing me. I was NOT directing that response to you....
 
jgredline said:
First of all Jeff, you just finished judging me and falsey accusing me. I was NOT directing that response to you....

I was inquiring, not judging. But if you feel like I have judged you, then please forgive me as we seem to have one misunderstanding after another in this thread. You see, I saw your conversation with destiny as an extension of your reply to my initial reply to you in which you commentede about the JW's and Mormons and it felt like you were accusing me... and though your last response was directed at destiny, your theme continued unaltered..

So, do we have this little mess all cleaned up yet or should we keep moving forward?

Peace.
Jeff
 
Jesus words, not mine...


Matt 10:
5 These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: “Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans. 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And as you go, preach, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’ 8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out demons. Freely you have received, freely give. 9 Provide neither gold nor silver nor copper in your money belts, 10 nor bag for your journey, nor two tunics, nor sandals, nor staffs; for a worker is worthy of his food.
11 “Now whatever city or town you enter, inquire who in it is worthy, and stay there till you go out. 12 And when you go into a household, greet it. 13 If the household is worthy, let your peace come upon it. But if it is not worthy, let your peace return to you. 14 And whoever will not receive you nor hear your words, when you depart from that house or city, shake off the dust from your feet. 15 Assuredly, I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city!
16 “Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves. Therefore be wise as serpents and harmless as doves. 17 But beware of men, for they will deliver you up to councils and scourge you in their synagogues. 18 You will be brought before governors and kings for My sake, as a testimony to them and to the Gentiles. 19 But when they deliver you up, do not worry about how or what you should speak. For it will be given to you in that hour what you should speak; 20 for it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you.
21 “Now brother will deliver up brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death. 22 And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved. 23 When they persecute you in this city, flee to another. For assuredly, I say to you, you will not have gone through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.
24 “A disciple is not above his teacher, nor a servant above his master. 25 It is enough for a disciple that he be like his teacher, and a servant like his master. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more will they call those of his household! 26 Therefore do not fear them. For there is nothing covered that will not be revealed, and hidden that will not be known.
27 “Whatever I tell you in the dark, speak in the light; and what you hear in the ear, preach on the housetops. 28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. 29 Are not two sparrows sold for a copper coin? And not one of them falls to the ground apart from your Father’s will. 30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. 31 Do not fear therefore; you are of more value than many sparrows.
32 “Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, him I will also confess before My Father who is in heaven. 33 But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven.
34 “Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword. 35 For I have come to ‘set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law’; 36 and ‘a man’s enemies will be those of his own household.’ 37 He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. 38 And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. 39 He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it.
40 “He who receives you receives Me, and he who receives Me receives Him who sent Me. 41 He who receives a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet’s reward. And he who receives a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man’s reward. 42 And whoever gives one of these little ones only a cup of cold water in the name of a disciple, assuredly, I say to you, he shall by no means lose his reward.â€Â

NKJV

By denying Jesus Deity as God, You are denying Jesus and he said he will deny you before the father in heaven....

Mutz...While I disagree with you in your belief that Jesus is not God, as I have told you...I atleast respect you for not flip floping on your view....

As for other who claim Jesus is God and then to apease man will say, it does not not matter and so forth, ''who are we to judge?'' well, those people I have no respect for.

Christians are to stand firm in truth....If we can't stand firm in a forum, how can we stand firm in public?.....

Only God can forgive sins, and if Jesus forgives sins, guess what?...He is God...

Mark 2:7 Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?
KJV


Mutz...I say with all my heart and soul...and the same for Mec...
I love you guys very much and I will continue to pray for the truth to be revealed to you guys and that you will come to know the saving grace that is offered by faith alone in God who is Jesus Christ.....
 
You know jg, all anyone here really wants from you is for you to follow the TOS of this forum and leave your personal bias out of it.
You have proven time and again that you cannot do that. I really think it's a sad state when the ones who are suppose to be enforcing the rules become the ones who think the rules don't apply to themselves.
Or else they lack the maturity and integrity to set an example.
Just uphold the TOS, jg. Is that really so hard for you to do? Please try alot harder to leave your judgments and personal slaps out of it.
For the record, I dont need your approval, I don't care what you think or don't think of me.
Just uphold the TOS please, especially rules 5-6

Thanks
 
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