Growth Comment on “The Church Age”

[farouk]

what was exactly joel 2 saying when peters says that came to pass in acts 2? and it shall come to pass that in the last days shall I pour out my spirit upon all flesh.. that is what peter quotes. whom got the Holy Ghost? jews that are now the church and no gentiles? if that isn't about the church then it was about isreal? ok then that promise didn't go to the gentiles? I think it did. we see that in that same book.

Clearly (to me, and other dispensationalists) there is a future for Israel and so it is not necessary to say that a prophecy relating to events on earth has been fulfilled in its entirely. In a sense partially, but not necessarily in its entirely. After all, the Cross relates also to the vindication of Israel also, after the church has gone.

Blessings.

 

[jasoncran]

I really try not add words or read the bible with a bias but it happens. but well

in the last days I shall pour my spirit upon all flesh.. in the last days shall my people speak with other tounges.and shall prophesy

And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.

31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the Lord come.

32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the Lord hath said, and in the remnant whom the Lord shall call.

ok if this isn't about the church then and the church wasn't formed at the act 2:38( im a pentacostal and I have been under the holy spirit power to speak in tounges). what then makes me not part of isreal today when the Hebrews in the trib will be doing the exact same thing as I have? given?

14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:

15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.

16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:

20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come:

21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved

peter there is saying that has come to pass.whom received that power first?jews! whom got it after them the goy! if salvation in the trib has changed show me where clearly and there wont be a need for a commentary for you do so as at present I have sticken to clear scripture.

 

[farouk]

I really try not add words or read the bible with a bias but it happens. but well

in the last days I shall pour my spirit upon all flesh.. in the last days shall my people speak with other tounges.and shall prophesy



ok if this isn't about the church then and the church wasn't formed at the act 2:38( im a pentacostal and I have been under the holy spirit power to speak in tounges). what then makes me not part of isreal today when the Hebrews in the trib will be doing the exact same thing as I have? given?

peter there is saying that has come to pass.whom received that power first?jews! whom got it after them the goy! if salvation in the trib has changed show me where clearly and there wont be a need for a commentary for you do so as at present I have sticken to clear scripture.

I'm not saying that it wasn't a fulflment in part; clearly it was. But it's not necessarily all that will happen in fulfilment. The expression 'the day of the Lord' refers to coming events on earth, rather than to the rapture of the church.

Blessings.

 

[jasoncran]

sigh. the dotl happen for isreal in ad 70. if you think that it will happen again for isreal kindly show me where in the new testament jesus says that he will return for isreal and that isreal will have to believe in him and not be filled just like we all are when we get the holy ghost. you have agreed to say the holy ghost infilling is the church. if a jew and goy have it then they are the church. if during the trib it the church. if during the millennium its still the church. so the church cant be removed to start another church. as well we just now see that peter says that joel 2 verses were about the idea of the holy ghost infilling. paul then says in corithians what that was for.if the requirement for the HS is the blood and then He comes. then how is isreal different then this Hebrew who is typing and all those like in said removed church? its not.

 

[farouk]

sigh. the dotl happen for isreal in ad 70. if you think that it will happen again for isreal kindly show me where in the new testament jesus says that he will return for isreal and that isreal will have to believe in him and not be filled just like we all are when we get the holy ghost. you have agreed to say the holy ghost infilling is the church. if a jew and goy have it then they are the church. if during the trib it the church. if during the millennium its still the church. so the church cant be removed to start another church. as well we just now see that peter says that joel 2 verses were about the idea of the holy ghost infilling. paul then says in corithians what that was for.if the requirement for the HS is the blood and then He comes. then how is isreal different then this Hebrew who is typing and all those like in said removed church? its not.

Ther difference between 1 & 2 Thessalonians, for example.

The rapture of the church is in 1 Thess. 4. But clearly there are other events on earth later.

Blessings.

 

[jasoncran]

nevermind farouk.

why do I say that to you? as I often have to futurists.
1) will the Hebrews not have to remember the blood on communion?
2) will the Hebrews not call on the lord and confess his name?
3) will the Hebrews not meet in buildings, streets and study the word?
4) pray?
5) receive the Hs?

if yes to any of that. what is the difference then of goy-Hebrew church then the reversed Hebrew-goy millienial saints as well you have said the saints will be as we are. they don't need goats and bulls for atonement.

 

[netchaplain]

what was exactly joel 2 saying when peters says that came to pass in acts 2? and it shall come to pass that in the last days shall I pour out my spirit upon all flesh.. that is what peter quotes. whom got the Holy Ghost? jews that are now the church and no gentiles? if that isn't about the church then it was about isreal? ok then that promise didn't go to the gentiles? I think it did. we see that in that same book.

Hi J - The believing Jews were first in everything, then the Gentiles--"They assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch (Acts 11:26). "And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved" (Acts 2:47).

"If that isn't about the church then it was about isreal?" These were believing Jews which was the beginning of the Church.

"Ok then that promise didn't go to the gentiles?" Not at that time, the Father must begin with His own, then "all flesh" (Acts 2:17 - Gentiles).

 

[farouk]

nevermind farouk.

why do I say that to you? as I often have to futurists.
1) will the Hebrews not have to remember the blood on communion?
2) will the Hebrews not call on the lord and confess his name?
3) will the Hebrews not meet in buildings, streets and study the word?
4) pray?
5) receive the Hs?

if yes to any of that. what is the difference then of goy-Hebrew church then the reversed Hebrew-goy millienial saints as well you have said the saints will be as we are. they don't need goats and bulls for atonement.

I'm not familiar with the goy-Hebrew Hebrew-goy terminology as such but I think I know what you are referring to. Usually the word goy is used by Jews pejoratively about Gentiles, unless I'm mistaken.

But I agree: the sacrifice of the Cross is finished and gloriously effective and final.

Blessings.

 

[jasoncran]

they are like me. they are of Abrahams seed. the Hebrews believed then and become the church and went to the goy. if the Hebrews today do that what is the difference?likewise if they do it in the trib or millenium nothing. the church is doing what isreal has been not doing when they should have. that is the problem for YOU not me.

any man of any race may believe and be part of the church. lineage no longer matters. as deborah13 says being a jew never was about blood but about faith. jews admit this!

 

[farouk]

Hi J - The believing Jews were first in everything, then the Gentiles--"They assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch (Acts 11:26). "And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved" (Acts 2:47).

"If that isn't about the church then it was about isreal?" These were believing Jews which was the beginning of the Church.

"Ok then that promise didn't go to the gentiles?" Not at that time, the Father must begin with His own, then "all flesh" (Acts 2:17 - Gentiles).

Kind of the order: first at Jerusalem, then in Samaria until the uttermost parts of the earth.

Blessings.

 

[jasoncran]

goy means gentile. goyim means nations. they don't have to be negative. if you read acts in Hebrew it would say that whenever the word gentile was used. its akin to sinner

 

[farouk]

they are like me. they are of Abrahams seed. the Hebrews believed then and become the church and went to the goy. if the Hebrews today do that what is the difference?likewise if they do it in the trib or millenium nothing. the church is doing what isreal has been not doing when they should have. that is the problem for YOU not me.

any man of any race may believe and be part of the church. lineage no longer matters. as deborah13 says being a jew never was about blood but about faith. jews admit this!

Jews and Gentiles that believe in the Lord Jesus are Abraham's seed by faith. Not necessarily his seed via the flesh and circumcision.

 

[jasoncran]

Jews and Gentiles that believe in the Lord Jesus are Abraham's seed by faith. Not necessarily his seed via the flesh and circumcision.

ok then you have just seen the problem with the futurist postion of removing a church to make another as its all faith and works the same for the Hebrew and the gentile.

 

[netchaplain]

Jews and Gentiles that believe in the Lord Jesus are Abraham's seed by faith. Not necessarily his seed via the flesh and circumcision.

I believe whenever the word "seed" is used it is posterity. Only Jews are posterity of Abraham's natural seed. Believing Gentiles are of the faith of Abraham, but not his seed or posterity.

 

[farouk]

ok then you have just seen the problem with the futurist postion of removing a church to make another as its all faith and works the same for the Hebrew and the gentile.

What about Matthew 24, 2 Thessalonians, etc.? Clearly they are about saints on earth after the church has gone; and not about the church, as such.

Blessings.

 

[farouk]

I believe whenever the word "seed" is used it is posterity. Only Jews are posterity of Abraham's natural seed. Believing Gentiles are of the faith of Abraham, but not his seed or posterity.

How would you understand Galatians 3.16?

Blessings.

PS: Galatians 3.29 also.

 

[netchaplain]

How would you understand Galatians 3.17?
.

God's promise to Abraham and His believing seed, for redemption, reconciliation, eternal life and salvation was not affected ("cannot disannul") by the Law which came "four hundred and thirty years" after this promise. If the Law were to affect this promise, it would have been forfeited.

 

[farouk]

God's promise to Abraham and His believing seed, for redemption, reconciliation, eternal life and salvation was not affected ("cannot disannul") by the Law which came "four hundred and thirty years" after this promise. If the Law were to affect this promise, it would have been forfeited.

Okay, ty. Doesn't it say or imply in Galatians 3.16 and Galatians 3.29 also that believing Gentiles are the seed of Abraham also? I'm reading in the King James; maybe some versions don't have 'seed' there, though.

Blessings.

 

[netchaplain]

Okay, ty. Doesn't it say or imply in Galatians 3.16 and Galatians 3.29 also that believing Gentiles are the seed of Abraham also? I'm reading in the King James; maybe some versions don't have 'seed' there, though.

Galatians 3 speaks of Gentiles (vs 8, 14, 22, 28), but speaks to those who were under the Law. When Paul said "Their is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female, "he did not mean there are no longer Jews, Gentiles, male nor female, for their state of being as such had not changed, they are still Jews, Gentiles, male, female, etc., but intends that there is no longer "respect of person" concerning who His people are, which before were just Jews but now also Gentiles.

Verse 28 does not make Jews and Gentiles one in posterity, but one in faith, by whom all "are blessed with faithful Abraham" (v 9); not joined with Abraham in posterity concerning the Gentiles, but joined in faith in Christ.

I believe "Abraham's seed" will always refer to his posterity only, and only a believing Jew is "an Israelite (Abrahamite if you will) indeed" (John 1:47). The chapter primarily concerns believing Jews (19, 21, 23-27, 29).

 

[Sinthesis]

HI S - To qualify for the present age (or even any past - Preterist view) to be the Millennium Kingdom (MK), this would have to be Jesus' kingdom, which would depart from Scriptural doctrine (John 18:36). The Christian is in this world, thus His kingdom is in the Christian, not this world, and its coming is inevitable.

Thomas and all of Christ's Apostles and disciples were Christian, and the implications of Jesus' resurrection related to being "blessed" was not accountable to them, because He had not yet established the basis for faith in His resurrection, which wasn't until He ascended. One of the blessings of the Jews who God saves later is the new earth, as promised.

John 18:36 was given before the resurrection. Not even Christ's Apostles were Christian prior to the resurrection. No one was, and no one could have been until after the resurrection. They didn't need the ascension to confirm the resurrection, rather the ascension confirmed their part in the great commission. The millennial kingdom is Jesus' Kingdom dwelling in the Christian, who dwells in the world, but as a stranger, fulfilling the great commission. Through this the entire world is blessed, even those who don't believe.