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Commonly Referred to as Separate or Partial Rapture

JCitoL said:
the biblical expression "upon the whole world" in Revelation 3rd chapter means: "upon the whole system of (the) human religion/spirituality", while the expression "those that dwell on the earth" means: those who live by following/practising human religion/spirituality, and the "trial" is the spiritual/religious delusion

Blessings
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Upon the whole world means upon the whole world, no qualification is given specifically. Everyone is tried even Christians are tried for Christians do not escape trial and tribulation. They are martyred even. A Christian who was not ready at the first rapture will enter into the Tribulation, to help lead people to Christ even then.

Christians do not receive God's wrath but certainly chastisement for being carnal Christians. Paul said there are two kinds of Christians: spiritual and carnal. Both saved and have eternal life which is eternal and can never be lost, but they both don't receive the same reward for the timing of the rapture or for the reign in the millennial kingdom.

You've been warned.
 
Partrib said:
Upon the whole world means upon the whole world, no qualification is given specifically. Everyone is tried even Christians are tried for Christians do not escape trial and tribulation. They are martyred even. A Christian who was not ready at the first rapture will enter into the Tribulation, to help lead people to Christ even then.

Christians do not receive God's wrath but certainly chastisement for being carnal Christians. Paul said there are two kinds of Christians: spiritual and carnal. Both saved and have eternal life which is eternal and can never be lost, but they both don't receive the same reward for the timing of the rapture or for the reign in the millennial kingdom.

You've been warned.
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a man's(earnest/honest) deed means to bear the burdens of the "fatherless" i.e. the infidel/non-occult people and the "widows" i.e. the weak believers in affliction

James 1:26-27 "If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain. Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.",

Romans 15:1-3 "We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves. Let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to edification. For even Christ pleased not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell on me."

then why must they be doomed?!

Blessings
 
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Partrib said:
Upon the whole world means upon the whole world, no qualification is given specifically. Everyone is tried even Christians are tried for Christians do not escape trial and tribulation. They are martyred even. A Christian who was not ready at the first rapture will enter into the Tribulation, to help lead people to Christ even then.

Christians do not receive God's wrath but certainly chastisement for being carnal Christians. Paul said there are two kinds of Christians: spiritual and carnal. Both saved and have eternal life which is eternal and can never be lost, but they both don't receive the same reward for the timing of the rapture or for the reign in the millennial kingdom.

You've been warned.
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Care to explain where you are coming to this conclusion (chapter and verse, within context of course)?
 
JCitoL said:
a man's(earnest/honest) deed means to bear the burdens of the "fatherless" i.e. the infidel/non-occult people and the "widows" i.e. the weak believers in affliction

James 1:26-27 "If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain. Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.",

Romans 15:1-3 "We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves. Let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to edification. For even Christ pleased not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell on me."

then why must they be doomed?!

Blessings
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Why do you think who must be doomed?
 
Partrib said:
Rev. 4 there is no rapture. It is a picture of earth from heaven, and there we see the 24 archangels close to God.
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I'll just address this portion of your reply. It is not a picture of earth which closed with the judgment of the church in Rev Chapters Two and Three. Rev 4:1 begins with "A door was opened in heaven . . Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter; a new viewpoint.

Secondly archangels are not redeemed from every out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation told us in Rev 5:9. I would additionally ask concerning angels who Jesus' angel of Rev 1:1 is to you, or even what you think an angel is?

To me God in Revelation is revealing His Son and His work from the future time of the Lord's Day. He is given the views from that point of view of past, present, and things to come. To ignore the presence of the redeemed with Jesus on the Lord's day is to miss them that will actually reign as kings and priests.

Thanks and these are just my thoughts. Blessings in Christ Jesus.
 
Partrib said:
Why do you think who must be doomed?
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the doctors are to heal the patients, otherwise no one would consider them as doctors, likewise the spiritual servants/workers should work for the overall salvation in the true Lord God, otherwise, if they ruin the humans, their work will be considered as sinful both on the part of God and the people

Romans 14:17-18 "the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness(i.e. overall concern/care), and peace, and joy(i.e. and grace) in the Holy Ghost.
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For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men."

Blessings
 
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Partrib said:
Luke 21.36 confirms this condition for Christians, "But watch ye at every season, making supplication, that ye may prevail to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man."

What is to come to pass to stand before the Son of man? The Tribulation -- Daniel's final seven.

And again in Matt. 24, "Then shall two man be in the field; one is taken, and one is left: two women shall be grinding at the mill; one is taken, and one is left. Watch therefore: for ye know not on what day your Lord cometh."

So the believer is told to watch. If you don't want, there are consequences. It is better to be taken by the Lord than left. If you watch you will be taken. Taken when?
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A better question is taken where. Is there even 1 scripture that says we will be taken to heaven at the 1Cor.15 event?
 
Partrib said:
Upon the whole world means upon the whole world, no qualification is given specifically. Everyone is tried even Christians are tried for Christians do not escape trial and tribulation. They are martyred even. A Christian who was not ready at the first rapture will enter into the Tribulation, to help lead people to Christ even then.

Christians do not receive God's wrath but certainly chastisement for being carnal Christians. Paul said there are two kinds of Christians: spiritual and carnal. Both saved and have eternal life which is eternal and can never be lost, but they both don't receive the same reward for the timing of the rapture or for the reign in the millennial kingdom.

You've been warned.
Click to expand...

There is no scripture that supports a "first" rapture.

There is only one Rapture and that takes place AFTER the resurrection of the dead.


JLB
 
"
Here is how noted pre-trib scholar Arnold Fruchtenbaum explains it,
"The identity of these twenty-four elders has been much debated. Some take it to refer to celestial beings, while others take it to refer to and represent the church. While the text does not clearly state as to what these twenty-four elders refer, there are clues in the text by which their identity can be deduced. First, these elders are clothed with white garments which throughout the Revelation are symbols of salvation. Celestial beings before the throne of God do not need salvation for they were not lost to begin with. But these elders were at one time lost and at some point received salvation as is seen by their wearing of the white garments.

"The second clue is the fact that they are wearing crowns. These crowns are not diadem crowns worn by those who are royal by nature, which would have been the case had these been celestial beings. These crowns are the stephanos crowns, the crowns of an overcomer; the type of crown given as rewards to the members of the church at the Judgment Seat of Christ.”

"A third clue lies in their very title of elders. Nowhere else in Scripture is this term used to describe celestial or angelic beings. This term is used of humans in positions of authority either in the synagogue or church.”

"Hence, from these three clues, the twenty-four elders must represent the church saints. If this is true, then they provide further evidence for a pre-tribulation Rapture. The church is already in heaven in chapter four and five before the tribulation begins in chapter six." (The Footsteps of the Messiah, p.114)."

http://lastdayscalendar.tripod.com/twenty_four_elders.htm

This seems to make sense to me.
 
Edward said:
"
Here is how noted pre-trib scholar Arnold Fruchtenbaum explains it,
"The identity of these twenty-four elders has been much debated. Some take it to refer to celestial beings, while others take it to refer to and represent the church. While the text does not clearly state as to what these twenty-four elders refer, there are clues in the text by which their identity can be deduced. First, these elders are clothed with white garments which throughout the Revelation are symbols of salvation. Celestial beings before the throne of God do not need salvation for they were not lost to begin with. But these elders were at one time lost and at some point received salvation as is seen by their wearing of the white garments.

"The second clue is the fact that they are wearing crowns. These crowns are not diadem crowns worn by those who are royal by nature, which would have been the case had these been celestial beings. These crowns are the stephanos crowns, the crowns of an overcomer; the type of crown given as rewards to the members of the church at the Judgment Seat of Christ.”

"A third clue lies in their very title of elders. Nowhere else in Scripture is this term used to describe celestial or angelic beings. This term is used of humans in positions of authority either in the synagogue or church.”

"Hence, from these three clues, the twenty-four elders must represent the church saints. If this is true, then they provide further evidence for a pre-tribulation Rapture. The church is already in heaven in chapter four and five before the tribulation begins in chapter six." (The Footsteps of the Messiah, p.114)."

http://lastdayscalendar.tripod.com/twenty_four_elders.htm

This seems to make sense to me.
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How does all that "speculation" compare with the plain straight forward truth of the scriptures that Paul teaches us.

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming. 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 1 Corinthians 15:22-24

At His Coming is when the Resurrection takes place.

After the Resurrection, those who are alive and remain are Raptured.

Then come the end.

Simple plain Truth!

Then end is not 7 years BEFORE the end.

The end is the last Day.


JLB
 
I'm pretty sure that if 'as in Adam all die', then those who are alive and remain must either die at His coming, or die at the rapture, (at least a bodily death).
 
Sinthesis said:
I'm pretty sure that if 'as in Adam all die', then those who are alive and remain must either die at His coming, or die at the rapture, (at least a bodily death).
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The main point is ALL are taken up when He Comes.


JLB
 
Sinthesis said:
I'm pretty sure that if 'as in Adam all die', then those who are alive and remain must either die at His coming, or die at the rapture, (at least a bodily death).
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No Christians are going to die at the rapture or the last day. The Word says so.
The prophetic Word indicates one generation that will not pass away completely; that is, not everyone in that generation will die. Some people will be taken directly from Planet Earth after an instantaneous, miraculous change into supernatural minds and bodies, for eternal residence in heaven. The Generation Mystery

We know from the Scriptures that the first generation began with Adam and Eve. Noah was the tenth generation. Which generation of people was Christ talking about that would see his return when he said: “…This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled?” (Matt. 24:34). The answer to this 2000-year-old question may be closer than we think, if the many prophecies we see converging on the horizon continue their march towards fulfillment in the 21st century.
 
JLB said:
Scripture please.
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1 Corinthians 15: 51-52
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed./(KJV)

This sure seems to say that at the last trump, there will be people alive and standing. They will not sleep. Jesus is life. I don't see Him killing them off just to raise them up again.

There's also Matthew 16: 28
28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom./(KJV)

I know that some hold that this speaks of John, but it does say "some" which is plural and not singular.
 
Matthew 16:28...there be some standing here..... does not mean he is talking about those in the flesh. It is interesting that with all the catching away threads and all the scripture being quoted to support each readers opinion concerning the resurrection, nobody seems to look to the laws of the Harvest, Jesus told us that he came to fulfill the Law, he also told us that the scriptures (old test obviously) cannot be broken, the resurrection (Harvest) for all, will happen according to the Laws of the Harvest, there are two loaves of firstfruits that will be taken before the ingathering, one of the loaves was raised already, there is one more loaf of firstfruit yet to be taken...... when we understand this, there is sweet harmony ...check this site http://www.resurrectiontruth.com/
 
TCash said:
Matthew 16:28...there be some standing here..... does not mean he is talking about those in the flesh. It is interesting that with all the catching away threads and all the scripture being quoted to support each readers opinion concerning the resurrection, nobody seems to look to the laws of the Harvest, Jesus told us that he came to fulfill the Law, he also told us that the scriptures (old test obviously) cannot be broken, the resurrection (Harvest) for all, will happen according to the Laws of the Harvest, there are two loaves of firstfruits that will be taken before the ingathering, one of the loaves was raised already, there is one more loaf of firstfruit yet to be taken...... when we understand this, there is sweet harmony ...check this site http://www.resurrectiontruth.com/
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When we understand that the laws that govern the first-fruits apply to Jesus, and can not be mis-applied to mean the law of the first fruit occurs when Jesus was resurrected from the dead and also 2000 years later to some unspecified group at the rapture.

When we understand this, then the fantasy of the Pre-Trib Rapture Doctrine is blown away like chaff on the summer threshing floor.

20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 1 Corinthians 15:20


JLB
 
I do believe that 1 Cor 15:20 is one of the most miss-understood verses in the non-Jewish Christian community. that being said because of the lack of understanding of the Laws of Harvest, and the choice of wording used in translating the Greek word Ginomai in 1 Cor 15:20. The two firstfruit loaves are prepared with Leaven (yeast), We know Christ is the Un-leavened bread ... and he is the Lamb offered with the two loaves in the wave offering performed by the High Priest in the offering of the firstfruits to God fifty days after the beginning of harvest,(mistakenly referred to as firstfruits) that is the day Our Lord was raised, the day the sheaf of firstfruits (called the Omer, the amount of weight of the first cut of ripe Barley) is waived before God. Fifty days after Christ was raised is the firstfruits offered to God.
Paul in the 15th chapter of 1 Corinthians is teaching the assurance of the resurrection, the firstfruits is a resurrection event of those chosen by God, just as ingathering (Tabernacles) is also, and Christ has become (Ginomai) both of these events... and Paul goes on to confirm the order of the resurrection... Christ, the firstfruits, then those who are his at his coming (Ingathering) ........ Christ did not become (as to imply-translated into- the leavened bread of firstfruits)...
The dead shall rise FIRST then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up ! at his appearing.
http://www.resurrectiontruth.com/
 
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