Conditional salvation is works salvation !

[brightfame52]

Can you provide scripture that says only the “elect” are given the new birth?

Can you provide scripture that says its not only the elect that are given the New Birth ?

 

[JLB]

You dont have to literally say the words, " Salvation by works"

I never used the phrase salvation by works.


Dont misrepresent me and what I say.


1.4: Do not misquote or misrepresent another member. Do not state a negative opinion about a member's denomination, leaders, founders, or the veracity of a member's faith. (Exodus 20:16)

 

[brightfame52]

I never used the phrase salvation by works.


Dont misrepresent me and what I say.


1.4: Do not misquote or misrepresent another member. Do not state a negative opinion about a member's denomination, leaders, founders, or the veracity of a member's faith. (Exodus 20:16)

I already spoke to that ! You do condition salvation on what man does !!

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Thats true unless a person repents they will perish, yet it is God who gives repentance to the Elect. The Salvation of the Elect isn't conditioned upon their repentance, no, repentance is an evidence that God has saved a person ! See God/Christ gives repentance Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Acts 11:18
18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

2 Tim 2:25

25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth

So in your church people frequently repent and cease that sin, right? If not, they aren’t a part of the elect, right? But wait, isn’t repenting a work??

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I already spoke to that ! You do condition salvation on what man does !!

Are the elect forgiven whether they forgive others or not?

 

[JLB]

Can you provide scripture that says its not only the elect that are given the New Birth ?

Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
Nicodemus answered and said to Him, “How can these things be?”
Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things? Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness. If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:5-16



Whoever believes is given eternal life, through the new birth.





JLB

 

[brightfame52]

Are the elect forgiven whether they forgive others or not?

Yes, the forgiveness of sins is based upon the Blood of Christ for the elect Eph 1:7

7 In whom we[the elect] have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

If you therefore base your forgiveness of sins on whether or not you forgive someone else, then thats conditioning forgiveness of sins on your works, your performance and not Grace and the Blood of Christ !

 

[JLB]

I already spoke to that ! You do condition salvation on what man does !!

Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12

• lest they should believe and be saved.

Believe is the condition for receiving salvation.

Question:
What prevented these folks in verse 12 from receiving salvation?

Answer:
They didn’t believe!

Simple and true because they Truth teaches this.



JLB

 

[brightfame52]

Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12

• lest they should believe and be saved.

Believe is the condition for receiving salvation.

Question:
What prevented these folks in verse 12 from receiving salvation?

Answer:
They didn’t believe!

Simple and true because they Truth teaches this.



JLB

Yes or No, do you base salvation on something you do ?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Yes, the forgiveness of sins is based upon the Blood of Christ for the elect Eph 1:7

7 In whom we[the elect] have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

If you therefore base your forgiveness of sins on whether or not you forgive someone else, then thats conditioning forgiveness of sins on your works, your performance and not Grace and the Blood of Christ !

Where is the word “for the elect only” in there?

I didn’t say salvation is based on forgiving other people. But Bright, you are arguing with Jesus when you think it’s not a necessary condition. He said it is.

Now something needs explaining for anyone trying to understand these matters. There are real conditions to be met for salvation. These are necessary but alone they are completely insufficient. That is, refuse to forgive others and your sins (justice here) will NOT be forgiven. But forgiving others will not get you salvation same as a thief admitting he stole will not prevent him from jail time. There are necessary but insufficient conditions. This is so common in life it ought to be easily understood. Applying for a job wont get you the job but if don’t apply, you’ll never get it.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Yes or No, do you base salvation on something you do ?

How about repent and believe? Is that too much work?

 

[JLB]

Yes or No, do you base salvation on something you do ?

I base my salvation on what Jesus Christ did on the cross.


In order for anyone to receive the salvation He paid for, they must first hear about what He did, then they must believe.

Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12

• lest they should believe and be saved

For “whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved.”
How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed?
And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard?
And how shall they hear without a preacher? Romans 10:14

• And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard?

JLB

 

[Edward]

Thats true unless a person repents they will perish, yet it is God who gives repentance to the Elect. The Salvation of the Elect isn't conditioned upon their repentance, no, repentance is an evidence that God has saved a person ! See God/Christ gives repentance Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Acts 11:18
18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

2 Tim 2:25

25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth

I think you mean, He gave them the grace to be able to want to have a repentant heart.

Cuz, for all who believe in His name, they are given the power to become the sons of God....

 

[Edward]

7 In whom we[the elect] have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Yes. But do you understand how grace works?

Then they receive the power to become...sons of God. And His grace is sufficient for me to do this. !!!

So yes, you do have to get up on your feet and move, lol. Do something, anything. It shows that you are alive...

 

[JLB]

Yes, its something a regenerated man does. God gives it to His Elect when He gives them a New Birth with a New Heart.

So a person who is already saved, repents so he can be saved?




JLB

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Yes, the forgiveness of sins is based upon the Blood of Christ for the elect Eph 1:7

7 In whom we[the elect] have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

If you therefore base your forgiveness of sins on whether or not you forgive someone else, then thats conditioning forgiveness of sins on your works, your performance and not Grace and the Blood of Christ !

Uh, Jesus said if you don’t forgive others, you won’t be forgiven. You didn’t answer my question.

 

[brightfame52]

Where is the word “for the elect only” in there?

I didn’t say salvation is based on forgiving other people. But Bright, you are arguing with Jesus when you think it’s not a necessary condition. He said it is.

Now something needs explaining for anyone trying to understand these matters. There are real conditions to be met for salvation. These are necessary but alone they are completely insufficient. That is, refuse to forgive others and your sins (justice here) will NOT be forgiven. But forgiving others will not get you salvation same as a thief admitting he stole will not prevent him from jail time. There are necessary but insufficient conditions. This is so common in life it ought to be easily understood. Applying for a job wont get you the job but if don’t apply, you’ll never get it.

I answered your question the way I understood it. What did you get out of it. Gods forgiveness of sin isnt based upon whether or not you forgive someone else, thats works salvation !

 

[brightfame52]

How about repent and believe? Is that too much work?

If you base your salvation on your repenting and believing, then you base salvation on your works. Its just that simple !

 

[brightfame52]

I base my salvation on what Jesus Christ did on the cross.


In order for anyone to receive the salvation He paid for, they must first hear about what He did, then they must believe.

Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12

• lest they should believe and be saved

For “whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved.”
How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed?
And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard?
And how shall they hear without a preacher? Romans 10:14

• And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard?

JLB

So if you base your salvation on things you do, then you base it upon your works !

 

[brightfame52]

I think you mean, He gave them the grace to be able to want to have a repentant heart.

Cuz, for all who believe in His name, they are given the power to become the sons of God....

No He gave them repentance !