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  • Focus on the Family

    Strengthening families through biblical principles.

    Focus on the Family addresses the use of biblical principles in parenting and marriage to strengthen the family.

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  • The Gospel of Jesus Christ

    Heard of "The Gospel"? Want to know more?

    There is salvation in no other, for there is not another name under heaven having been given among men, by which it behooves us to be saved."

Conditional salvation is works salvation !

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And I answered you with...

How the lost saved if they "cant believe"?
I have already told you, they are saved by Christ. Christ saves the Lost so they can believe. Its Christ that saves, its Christ that saves, its Christ that saves the unbeliever/sinner !
 
I believe people saved by believing what Christ did.

He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”
John 3:36

The verse plainly says... he who believes in the Son has eternal life.

It doesnt say... he who has eternal life believes in the Son.





JLB
What do they believe about what Christ did ? Do they believe that what Christ did saved them ? Yes or No ?
 
Again you are claiming that saved people hear the Gospel to become saved?

No sir, the Gospel is the power of God unto salvation, for everyone who believes.


For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.
Romans 1:16


JLB
Lost peole cant hear Gods word. When Jesus spoke to the people in Jn 8:43 they were not saved people but lost people Jn 8:43

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

He even calls them children of the devil Vs 44


44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Now are children of the devil saved or lost n? Would Jesus call people He loved and saved children of the devil or that the devil is their faither.
 
How about both? Let's rephrase it for clarity, and give me your thoughts on it.

Do you believe that the Marriage supper of the Lamb happens only because of Christ, or does the Bride of Christ have something to do with it too?

In other words, no wedding can happen without a Bride And a Groom. So God gave to man Marriage so He can teach us about how to be married, and get married, so we know what do do and prepare for! Do you agree?

To plan a wedding both the groom and bride have certain responsibilities to prepare for it. Traditionally, the Groom is more busy because he's paying, but the Bride absolutely must do certain things. An example would be, no I'm not going to get you a wedding gown babe, you have to go pick that out yourself! Am I right?! You bet I am! Modern girls will want to take over food planning and photogrophers and al that to make sure their wedding is perfect and all that, with lots of help from her mom & dad which (traditionally) are footing the bill. Nowadays I think the groom pretty much gets his own tux and that's it. But the point is that the Bride has responsibilities and if she doesn't do them, the wedding son't happen! Right or not?

Now may I direct your attention to Revelation?

Revelation 19:7-8

At this time, the bride of Christ, the church, has made herself ready and is clothed in white linen, which represents her righteous acts. The implications are clear: Getting ready, walking worthy, and overcoming are the righteous acts of the saints that prepare her to be His wife in the resurrection to the Kingdom of God.

So here is the 64,000 $ question: Is the Bride of Christ required to make herself ready or not?
And wouldn;t this be works like you say, so she does not have to make herself ready? Your thoughts...
How about both ? So you believe man is saved by both what God did and what man does. Thats salvation by works, it detracts from the Glory of God
 
No, I’m actually applying your logic to a possible situation. What you are doing is resisting any work you have to do in matters of the Kingdom of God. It’s almost like the word “work” is odious.

But let me ask you, do you believe those destined for heaven right now have to love God?
Sorry you not applying my logic to anything, you are applying your logic. Anyone reading my posts know of a certainty I dont promote universalism. I witness to the Truth of limited atonement, do you know what that is ?
 
I have already told you, they are saved by Christ.

How are they saved by Christ if they have never heard of Him?


How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? Romans 10:14



And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard?




JLB
 
What do they believe about what Christ did ? Do they believe that what Christ did saved them ? Yes or No ?

If they believe then what Jesus Christ did on the cross will be able to save them.


He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.
John 3:36


  • He who believes in the Son has everlasting life


Do people have eternal life apart from believing in the Son of God, Jesus Christ?


Yes or No?




JLB
 
How are they saved by Christ if they have never heard of Him?


How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? Romans 10:14



And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard?




JLB
They are saved by Christ, by His Blood. I have told you this a million times !
 
If they believe then what Jesus Christ did on the cross will be able to save them.


He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.
John 3:36


  • He who believes in the Son has everlasting life


Do people have eternal life apart from believing in the Son of God, Jesus Christ?


Yes or No?




JLB
If they believe then what Jesus Christ did on the cross will be able to save them.


He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.
John 3:36


  • He who believes in the Son has everlasting life


Do people have eternal life apart from believing in the Son of God, Jesus Christ?


Yes or No?




JLB
Again What do they believe about what Christ did ? Do they believe that what Christ did saved them ? Yes or No ?
 
Whenever we make anything a must do prior to God saving us, and God saves us because of that we must do ir have done, we automatically forfeit salvation by Grace and come under the opposing view of salvation by works.
If a person says that they were saved after they obeyed, or after they believed, this person is in essence saying, salvation is of myself, of my work, and whether they admit it or not, they have something to boast of. Yet Gods word insists that salvation is the Gift of God, not of man, its not of works lest any man boast Eph 2:8-9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
It is by grace. But we need to open the door.
Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.

Jesus waited for Paul to accept even after appointing him.
In Damascus there was a disciple named Ananias. The Lord called to him in a vision, “Ananias!”

“Yes, Lord,” he answered.

11The Lord told him, “Go to the house of Judas on Straight Street and ask for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for he is praying. 12In a vision he has seen a man named Ananias come and place his hands on him to restore his sight.”

He asked and received by grace not works.
Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.

Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.

They came to the Lord.
They made a hole in the roof over where Jesus stood. Then they let the bed with the sick man on it down before Jesus. 20 When Jesus saw their faith, He said to the man, “Friend, your sins are forgiven.”

A choice is made.
When Jesus saw him lying there and learned that he had been in this condition for a long time, he asked him, “Do you want to get well?


The forgiveness of sins is not by works. But those who listen and learn from the Father choose to go to Jesus.
 
They are saved by Christ, by His Blood. I have told you this a million times !

By this reasoning everyone in the world would be saved by His blood.

Only those who believe are saved.

Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12


He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.
John 3:36


  • He who believes in the Son has everlasting life


Again, the question remains….

And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard?




JLB
 
Again What do they believe about what Christ did ? Do they believe that what Christ did saved them ? Yes or No ?

People must believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ; what He did on the cross, in order to be saved.



For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16



Do you believe unbelievers are saved?





JLB
 
It is by grace. But we need to open the door.
Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.

Jesus waited for Paul to accept even after appointing him.
In Damascus there was a disciple named Ananias. The Lord called to him in a vision, “Ananias!”

“Yes, Lord,” he answered.

11The Lord told him, “Go to the house of Judas on Straight Street and ask for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for he is praying. 12In a vision he has seen a man named Ananias come and place his hands on him to restore his sight.”

He asked and received by grace not works.
Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.

Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.

They came to the Lord.
They made a hole in the roof over where Jesus stood. Then they let the bed with the sick man on it down before Jesus. 20 When Jesus saw their faith, He said to the man, “Friend, your sins are forgiven.”

A choice is made.
When Jesus saw him lying there and learned that he had been in this condition for a long time, he asked him, “Do you want to get well?


The forgiveness of sins is not by works. But those who listen and learn from the Father choose to go to Jesus.
You promoting works, that automatically discounts Grace.
 
By this reasoning everyone in the world would be saved by His blood.

Only those who believe are saved.

Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12


He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.
John 3:36


  • He who believes in the Son has everlasting life


Again, the question remains….

And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard?




JLB
Only the people Christ died for are saved. People who die in their sins, arent saved.
 
People must believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ; what He did on the cross, in order to be saved.



For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16



Do you believe unbelievers are saved?





JLB
One more time:

Again What do they believe about what Christ did ? Do they believe that what Christ did saved them ? Yes or No ?
 
You promoting works, that automatically discounts Grace.
I don't see responding to Gods grace as works.
How do you read this teaching by the Lord?
Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.

What work did this than being put to death for His sins do to have His sins forgiven?
Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.”
Two asked something of Jesus while He was on the cross but only one received a answer.
The one who believed in Him. (faith)
 
I don't see responding to Gods grace as works.
How do you read this teaching by the Lord?
Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.

What work did this than being put to death for His sins do to have His sins forgiven?
Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.”
Two asked something of Jesus while He was on the cross but only one received a answer.
The one who believed in Him. (faith)
Is responding something a person does, an action ? Did performing that action result in God saving you ? Yes or No ?
 
They are saved by Christ, by His Blood. I have told you this a million times !
Jesus to Paul
to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.

that implies the knowledge of the truth
repentance or change of heart or decision to follow Christ
faith in Jesus for sanctification
 
Hasn't changed. Grace through "Faith"

Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; 26and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?”

“Stop grumbling among yourselves,” Jesus answered. 44“No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day. 45It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.

Believing and coming to Jesus by faith for life.
Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.

Eternal life is received by believing and going to Jesus for life.

True love for Jesus and a sincere faith in Him speaks to the outward sign of true salvation. (obedience to the Lords commands)
 
Jesus to Paul
to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.

that implies the knowledge of the truth
repentance or change of heart or decision to follow Christ
faith in Jesus for sanctification
I have no problem with what Paul said there. It says nothing about Salvation conditioned on man, on works.
 
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