CONFESSING OUR BELIEFS

[GodsGrace]

wondering

#1 Is it important to know church history?

I don't know about anyone else, but church history was vital to my quest to know GODS TRUTH about everything the church should be according to scripture, and also according to non-Christian and Christian historians, about how things in the Christian church had changed by persecutions by church leaders in the early days of the faith. Say the first 200-300 years, and a lot changed then, including people being martered BY THE CHURCH for things that were eventually abolished that had to do with salvation, but is totally taught against now.

History brings to life the truth and reality of what Christianity was like and how many suffered and died for doing things in their faith that isn't even practiced today and is spoken against by mostly all churches today.

I agree with you,,,I find it very important.
I had left the Catholic church and had to find out about the beginning and what I believed to be true since those doctrine are different from those of Protestantism.

What do you think is not practiced today?
I tend to think more about what IS practiced that was not at the beginning.
For instance....confession to a priest; the belief that salvation was not secure, but was secure only In Christ and only by doing good works; some denominations baptize babies BECAUSE they fear they are lost --- the early fathers baptized babies but not for this reason. (for a blessing).

That's why when learning all this while I was going to church, and seeing the result of all those restrictions and teachings from the past happening in my own church, and remembering the same in all the other churches I attended before, and the falseness of what they taught and practiced, as I sat there in church my last Sunday a little over a year ago, after attending church for 41 years, I felt so edgy and totally uncomfortable and convicted by the Holy Spirit, I had to get up and leave during service, and never returned again.
And since then God has validated those actions over and over, and though many would site Hebrews 10:25, that applies to a person with a hardened heart - a bad heart condition before God.
If you read and study 2nd Corinthians 6:14-18, you read where God says that we all should SEPARATE ourselves from any kind of ungodly false teachings and actions, and to me in my learning, that's what most churches are guilty of and why there are so many different doctrines and beliefs, because Gods ONE doctrine of faith has been replaced by mans doctrinal beliefs, in both cases, so they can SIN against God and feel good about it.

Well, I think all denominations teach something or other that I don't find in the early church.
I do think it's important to fellowship with others that are of like beliefs. Right now I can only attend Catholic church and I do every now and then...but haven't been going steadily for more than a year, but the priest I know does know this and he tells me Jesus loves me anyway...he knows us well. I think it's a problem if you don't feel comfortable in any church...I think a little bit of discomfort is not so bad. Maybe eventually we get to miss it? I don't know.

This is just HISTORY, speaking of HISTORY, repeating itself again. Christians today replacing the meaning of Gods words, like the Jewish leaders did thousands of years ago so that they could validate their sinning by changing the meaning of the Mosaic law to the people, changing it even more as time passed - watch the movie "Fiddler on the roof. " Just kidding.

But if you study it out, you'll find a huge parallel between how the leaders in the Jewish faith and the leaders in the Christian faith have almost identically changed the meaning and purpose of what God and Jesus had given in word to their respective faiths.
In fact Jesus actually commented on it to the Jews in Matthew 5:17, "..where 6 times Jesus said, "you have heard it said, but I say" - a condemnation of their Hipocricy.

I agree with the above. I've said that some of the O.T. was written by man and not God (the Torah and VERY FEW verses) but I'm scolded for this! Every time Jesus said: You have heard it said....He was CORRECTING something.

The Pharisees had become religious and forgot about faith and love.
Some churches today are like this: They say that we must follow THEM instead of God.
I don't care for this.

So, is it important to know church history? Maybe not to some, but to me it's vital to knowing the truth.

You'd be "Shocked" at the changes made in the last 2000 years that changes your ability to find true salvation.
I hope you decide to study it out and make it your own as I was called to. PRAISE GOD :amen

What I have learned I could just barely skim the surface of trying to share here. It has to be studied for yourself so that the Holy Spirit can cause what you learn to be your own, something you live for and would die for, because the truth from God the way I got it became so COMPELLING, it was irrestable.
I invested thousands of hours and thousands of dollars, and over 40 years of my life because that's a small thing compared to eternity which is forever and forever.

I counted the cost, because there's a price to pay for every Christian to find the truth, especially with todays teachings, and I paid it at Gods calling, and wouldn't sell what I've learned for any amount of money because what I've learned is priceless.
No matter what anyone says, Christianity isn't free. Jesus said it would cost us everything, because in truth, it's all HIS.

OK, but let me ask you this:
What if someone has not studied and they have some doctrine or other wrong...
do you believe they are still saved? IOW, does our doctrine save us or does Jesus save us?

Finding the truth is like digging for a bountiful booty of buried treasure and when found everyone rejoices and has a wonderful time thinking of how they will spend their share. For me and others who've paid the price, I'm hoping for that "Crown of righteousness that Paul said he was to receive.

All this learning and struggling to find the truth has brought me a peace and joy and comfort in this faith I find beyond compare

May you all be blessed to find that peace we can all have before our savior.
My name is OLIGOS

I didn't count the cost at the beginning. God spoke to me through Jesus...I accepted and believed what I was being "told". I found it to be true and the rest "is history".

 

[jasonc]

He was corrected oral traditions ,not the law as written.

Having read and listened to rabbis ,there's the oral law and written ones,the oral for the most part is the interpretation of the written law ,mostly


Oral law, Moses was told by someone of the book of life ,either by God or the sages then,oral law the feast of lights,and also Purim.

What type of work done on Shabbat,what was cause for divorce .the Talmud is also commentary

 

[GodsGrace]

He was corrected oral traditions ,not the law as written.

Having read and listened to rabbis ,there's the oral law and written ones,the oral for the most part is the interpretation of the written law ,mostly


Oral law, Moses was told by someone of the book of life ,either by God or the sages then,oral law the feast of lights,and also Purim.

What type of work done on Shabbat,what was cause for divorce .the Talmud is also commentary

What was a certificate of divorce allowed by Moses?
Please answer, but I must leave for a while....

(Jesus corrected this in Matthew 5, I think).

 

[jasonc]

What was a certificate of divorce allowed by Moses?
Please answer, but I must leave for a while....

(Jesus corrected this in Matthew 5, I think).

Because of the hardness of your heart Moses gave writ of divorce . however if God allows divorce that way ,and he did .God permitted divorce for the hardness .

With this actually Jesus agrees with the oral law given by shimei.

 

[Tessa]

1. No it's not important. It was written by man. It can comfuse. It is interesting though.
The earliest church is in the NT. That's the one I believe and love.

 

[HeIsRisen2018]

Not by me

Yeah Ik, sorry it was by me lol, but it's back on track now.

Most Christians are not history buffs...it's not really important unless you need to know it for whatever reason.

It helps me a lot because I like to know what the early
Christians believed. They died for what they believed, so I like to know what it was. It doesn't really help much with salvation issues.
We won't be judged by the history we know,,,,but our knowledge of God and our obedience, or as some call it "works"....Same thing. If we obey God,,,we're working for Him.
1 Corinthians 3:8-9
8Now he who plants and he who waters are one; but each will receive his own reward according to his own labor.
9For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building.



There are saved theologians that do not believe the bible is 100% accurate,,,or that it does have some conflict.

It's not a history book and so the above should not shock anyone.

This is not to say that it is not the inspired word of God...but men wrote it and some mistakes might be in there. For instance, we can't really be sure that there was a census in the time of Jesus' birth.

However, it's important to note that there is no SUBSTANTIAL mistake or conflict in the bible that would cause on to lose trust in the message....the message remains in tact.




Matthew 13:49-50
49“So it will be at the end of the age; the angels will come forth and take out the wicked from among the righteous, 50and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. "

Jesus said the above....so no mistake here!

This is repeated in
John 5:28-29
28“Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
29and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

So, I have two questions for you:
1. What do these verses mean to you?
2. Can a person go to heaven WITHOUT knowing God?
Or must they know God?



Do you mean that they do NOT believe in God....
or do you mean that they are not Christian?



Are everyone's sins covered even if the don't believe in God?

1. I do believe I answered this already.

2. The truth is if we were all honest with ourselves nobody really knows who will be saved in the end as God is the only judge, but I don't believe that He would send somebody to Hell if they truly love and care for others and do what He says that we all should do even if their beliefs are different.


3. As for everybody's sins being covered like I said again I don't know. All I know is that I wasn't around back in the time when the things were being discussed, I don't know if Jesus really said everything that the people in the Bible said He said or whether they might have twisted His words around.



However, if somebody had a pretty good heart but made a mistake here and there, like telling a lie versus murdering somebody then I think there is a better chance that the liar would go to Heaven versus the murder. Again, just my beliefs here.




Either way I think we can all agree that nobody can enter the kingdom of Heaven if it wasn't for Jesus' sacrifice on the cross and that if you truly know Christ than you are guaranteed to be saved.

 

[jasonc]

If you live with a person ,they night profess Jesus,but if they don't act like it,common sense.


But well cheap grace .my church being reformed ,doesn't even go,there

 

[HeIsRisen2018]

If you live with a person ,they night profess Jesus,but if they don't act like it,common sense.


But well cheap grace .my church being reformed ,doesn't even go,there

Now that's a whole different thing right there that I completely can agree with. Actions speak louder than words that's for darn sure. In the end only they and God knows if they are saved or not and either way I would think they would have to repent and be sorry for the thing or things that they did.

 

[Tessa]

2. If we hold on to our confession Christ is our High Priest. We can come boldly to the throne of Grace. Henrews Hebrews 4 14 -16

we can stand before God if we are wearing Christ's righteousness.

 

[Tessa]

"If you love Me keep My commandments."
The sermon on the mount is one of my favourites too.
So, habe we accepted the gift of Grace and have a living faith. Have we trust 9n Christ and confessed our belief before men that Jesus is the Son of God and died for our sins? Do we love God with all our heart, mind and soul and love our neighbour?
Have we confessed and repented of our sins?

 

[JLB]

Well" wondering", I see you did it. Your quite the go getter.

I like the way you set it up with the 3 questions you started your post with.
I will add one question and answer it too. "IS IT IMPORTANT TO KNOW "BIBLE" history?
All 4 questions could be topics of their own.

I'll have to think and pray on those questions before I post an answer.

They'll probably come one at a time, as I think the answers will possibly be lengthy.

God bless you for your "Tenacious Faith" .
My name is OLIGOS

Great post and attitude.
The Holy Spirit is the great Teacher, sent by our Lord to lead us and guide us into the truth.

I have found by humbling myself and submitting to Him, to teach me and fill me with His Spirit, that we can all be taught of the Lord, as He promised... I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”


JLB

 

[Seasoned by Grace]

@ jlb
You have a wonderful heart .

 

[GodsGrace]

"If you love Me keep My commandments."
The sermon on the mount is one of my favourites too.
So, habe we accepted the gift of Grace and have a living faith. Have we trust 9n Christ and confessed our belief before men that Jesus is the Son of God and died for our sins? Do we love God with all our heart, mind and soul and love our neighbour?
Have we confessed and repented of our sins?

Great post.
Do we have a living faith?
Yes, if we follow what you have stated in your post..
THAT is what a living faith is...
a faith that is alive and doing God's will.

 

[GodsGrace]

Yeah Ik, sorry it was by me lol, but it's back on track now.





1. I do believe I answered this already.

2. The truth is if we were all honest with ourselves nobody really knows who will be saved in the end as God is the only judge, but I don't believe that He would send somebody to Hell if they truly love and care for others and do what He says that we all should do even if their beliefs are different.


3. As for everybody's sins being covered like I said again I don't know. All I know is that I wasn't around back in the time when the things were being discussed, I don't know if Jesus really said everything that the people in the Bible said He said or whether they might have twisted His words around.



However, if somebody had a pretty good heart but made a mistake here and there, like telling a lie versus murdering somebody then I think there is a better chance that the liar would go to Heaven versus the murder. Again, just my beliefs here.




Either way I think we can all agree that nobody can enter the kingdom of Heaven if it wasn't for Jesus' sacrifice on the cross and that if you truly know Christ than you are guaranteed to be saved.

Hi HeIsRisen,

Yeah,,,I was agreeing with what you had posted...I just added some extra verses that agree with what you stated.

I also agree that we should not take our salvation for granted.
We should appreciate it every day and thank God that we have the knowledge of Him !

Regarding the murderer, I do want to say that IF he repents and turns to God,,,he WILL be forgiven if he then follows the ways of God. Would you agree with that?

And your last paragraph is right on target !
Here's what you said:

"Either way I think we can all agree that nobody can enter the kingdom of Heaven if it wasn't for Jesus' sacrifice on the cross and that if you truly know Christ than you are guaranteed to be saved. "

 

[Tessa]

W

Great post.
Do we have a living faith?
Yes, if we follow what you have stated in your post..
THAT is what a living faith is...
a faith that is alive and doing God's will.

I missed 2 important ones
1 pick up our cross denying ourselves daily 2 not denying the strength of the Holy Spirit

Could these 2 things lead to the narrow path?

Battery running out. See you later.

 

[GodsGrace]

W

I missed 2 important ones
1 pick up our cross denying ourselves daily 2 not denying the strength of the Holy Spirit

Could these 2 things lead to the narrow path?

Battery running out. See you later.

I believe that what you stated in your first post pretty much says it all....
Within this living faith is included all that a person can come to understand...
we're not all at the same point at any given moment...

But, yes, if you can understand about picking up your cross daily, (luke 9:23)
and denying yourself - which is dying to ourselves (Galatians 2:20) then this is a very good understanding of what it means to let us become smaller and God become bigger.
John 3:30
"He must increase, but I must decrease. " (John the Baptist)

Never forgetting, of course, that Jesus helps us to carry whatever cross we must pick up.
Matthew 11:28-30
28“Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest.
29“Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and YOU WILL FIND REST FOR YOUR SOULS.
30“For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”

All our "efforts" on God's behalf lead us to the narrow gate!

 

[JohnDB]

All our "efforts" on God's behalf lead us to the narrow gate!

Well,
I wouldn't go quite that far.
Sure we all have to do something. James (Jesus'half brother) says so. Satan believes and shudders. So actions in a positive manner are necessary.
You can't earn your way into Heaven either. Our bests gifts on our best days are still disgusting bits of trash.

But trying to emulate Jesus out of a deep sense of gratitude...that's character or fertile soil. That's the kind of behavior Jesus is looking for. The kind that faith generated...and generated with passion so driven that... well... people have given up their lives for this.
Many of them foolishly and without proper preparation or tools to complete their tasks.
But in some instances that's love too.

So complicated what God has to dig through. The difficult choices to make. Glad it's Him doing so.

 

[Seasoned by Grace]

So complicated what God has to dig through. The difficult choices to make. Glad it's Him doing so.

Please, may I "LOVINGLY" add a thought here.

My experience is that we have to be careful what we give to God to "Dig Through", and what is ours to deal with and the choices we have to make that determine our faith in our God given "Free will" to choose , such as picking up our cross daily, or putting on the armour of God to protect ourselves from satans attacks, as he prowls around looking for those to destroy.
An example of free will choice is in Matthew 7: 13-14, where we have to choose between the "Broad road of destruction" or the "Narrow road of life", and God leaves it up to us to "Dig Through" all of Gods teachings, as well as all of satans temptations, to make life saving FREE WILL choices with the HELP and GUIDANCE of the Holy Spirit.
God is ALWAYS there to help us, but WE have to make the right choices of heaven or hell.

Thank you for allowing me to participate, and God bless you all.
My name is OLIGOS

 

[Seasoned by Grace]

All our "efforts" on God's behalf lead us to the narrow gate!

If I may.
Actually, it's by God's efforts that we are lead to the "NARROW GATE".
Jesus is the NARROW GATE spoken of here as an analogy, and in John 6:44
Jesus said, "No one comes to Me unless the Father who sent Me," DRAWS THEM"!

God bless us all as we seek His guidance and TRUTH together.
My name is OLIGOS

 

[JLB]

If I may.
Actually, it's by God's efforts that we are lead to the "NARROW GATE".
Jesus is the NARROW GATE spoken of here as an analogy, and in John 6:44
Jesus said, "No one comes to Me unless the Father who sent Me," DRAWS THEM"!

God bless us all as we seek His guidance and TRUTH together.
My name is OLIGOS

Entering the narrow gate is the easy part.

Once we do this, we are led along the difficult way that leads to life, whereby their are few who find it.


JLB