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"Confession" - The Sacrament

TheCatholic

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Okay, I want to say that this is NOT a Catholic issue. My research shows that many Christians believe and practice confession to a pastor, including: Coptics, "Traditional" Anglicans, Eastern Orthodox (Greek, Russian, etc.) Roman Catholics, Eastern Catholics, and others. Only those groups who trace themselves to so-called "Reformation" theology, or to the reformers themselves, reject this belief. And that, in fact, winds up being a small percentage of Christians.

So, with that in mind, here are three points to consider and comment on regardong confession to a minister:



1. Why do I have to go to a priest for confession instead of going straight to God? After all, the Bible says that "there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus" (1 Tim. 2:5).


The Lord does want us to come to him when we fall into sin. He wants to bring us forgiveness so much that he gave the apostles the power to forgive sins. This power given to the apostles and their successors does not come from within them but from God. Throughout the New Testament, Jesus gave the apostles authority over unclean spirits, the authority to heal, the authority to raise people from the dead, et cetera. No Christian assumes that these powers came from the men themselves, since God is the one that has chosen to use them to manifest his power and mercy.

In the words of Paul, "All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation" (2 Cor. 5:18). The apostles and their successors are merely ambassadors for Christ (2 Cor. 5:20), bringing his forgiveness to the world through the sacraments and the message of the gospel. If God has chosen to bring his message of forgiveness to the world by means of sinful, human ambassadors, why would he not be able to give these messengers the power to forgive and retain sins? And why would this not be a natural way for Jesus to extent his merciful presence on earth for all generations?

If Jesus has set up a way for us to draw near to him and receive his grace, why should we prefer another route? We would be like the three-year-old with his father who, in a rush to get home from the store, begins to run. "Let me pick you up," the father offers. The child says, "No, Dad. I’m fast. Just watch me." It takes them much longer to get home because the child’s pride prevents him from accepting his father’s help. Likewise, God does hear us when we ask for forgiveness, but it is dangerous and often prideful to stay away from what the saints call the "medicine box"â€â€the confessional. Why would a person wish to overcome their sins alone when they have the God-given power of the apostles’ successors at their disposal?



2. Where is the sacrament of confession in the Bible?

As soon as Jesus rose from the dead and earned salvation for us, he brought his apostles a new gift. After speaking peace to them, he said, "As the Father has sent me, even so I send you" (John 20:21). Just as Jesus was sent by the Father to reconcile the world to God, Jesus sent the apostles to continue his mission.

Jesus then breathed on the apostles. This is a verse that is often passed over, but it has extraordinary significance because it is only the second time in all of Scripture where God breathes on anyone. The other instance was at the moment of creation, when God breathed his own life into the nostrils of Adam. This should tell us that something of great importance is taking place. Upon doing this, Jesus said, "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained" (John 20:22–23).

Notice that Jesus is not simply commissioning the apostles to preach about God’s forgiveness. He is not saying, "Go tell everyone that when God forgives men’s sins, they’re forgiven." In using the second person plural you, Jesus is telling his apostles that by the power of the Holy Spirit he has given them the power to forgive and retain the sins of men. Having the power to forgive and to retain sins implies that the apostle knows what a person’s sins are, which in turn implies oral confession. Otherwise, how is the apostle to know what to retain or forgive?

In the same way that Jesus gave his apostles other supernatural powers (such as raising men from the dead), he gave them power to absolve sins (raising them from spiritual death). In Matthew 9, we read that Jesus forgave a paralytic and then healed him so "that you may know that the Son of man has authority on earth to forgive sins" (Matt. 9:6)

After he exercised this power as a man, the crowds glorified God for having given "such authority to men" (Matt. 9:8, emphasis added). Notice that Matthew indicates this power to forgive sins had been given to men, and not simply to a man.



3. Doesn’t confession of one’s sins imply that Christ’s work was insufficient? The Bible says that if I believe that Jesus is Lord, I’ll be saved.

The passage you referred to is Acts 16:31, which reads, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved." Sounds pretty simple. However, the Bible says much more about salvation and forgiveness. Jesus repeatedly affirmed that if we do not forgive others, we will not be forgiven (Matt. 6:15). When Jesus breathed on the apostles in John 20, he gave them the power to retain sins. But if one’s salvation is contingent upon nothing other than a verbal profession of faith, then there is no reason why Jesus would given any man the power to retain sins. In the midst of all of these passages what we need to be careful of is that we do not camp out on one particular Bible passage without consulting the rest of Scripture.

It is because of the work of Christ that we obtain forgiveness. All Christians can agree on that. What needs to be discussed is how that forgiveness comes to mankind. When Ananias spoke to Paul in Acts 22:16, he said, "And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins" (Acts 22:16). Later in the New Testament, the forgiveness of sins is tied to the sacrament of the anointing of the sick (James 5:13–15). Just as these Biblical practices are channels of God’s forgiving grace, the sacrament of confession does not add to or take away from the finished work of Christ. It is evidence of the finished work of Christ in our midst.
 
your confusing prayer for the deliverance of from that habitual sin with the forgiveness that only jesus gave.. ie did you die for me on the cross so how can you a sinner that's need the grace like i do forgive me for a sin unto the lord..

you are thinking of the concept of james confess one faults to another so that ye may be healed.
that is another topic.. think about what if you dont forgive me what then?

i do believe in talking to others and asking for forgiveness if we offend or are offended. that also what james meant and jesus.. bitterness is evil and needs to be realesed

the concept of the priest the rc uses and others of shoot uses are from the old testiment..
no the new..

jason
 
Do you believe in faith healings?

When someone lays hands on someone else, who is it that actual does the healing: The person laying on their hands, or God?

It is God, of course. But God works through the healer.

Why is it that so many people can believe that God can work through men to heal te body but cannot believe God will work just as miraculously through men to heal the soul? Which is more Christlike?
 
TheCatholic said:
Do you believe in faith healings?

When someone lays hands on someone else, who is it that actual does the healing: The person laying on hands or God?

It is God, of course. But God works through the healer.

Why is it that so many people can believe that God can work through men to heal te body but cannot believe God will work just as miraculously through men to heal the soul? Which is more Christlike?
because that is a gift from the holy spirit see romans 12, and yes one can pray for the healing and lay hands and god does it..
but theres no verses or actual acts of any confessionals like the rc does in the book of acts or any other nt book

i'm not anti rc but i disagree with the many teachings of the rc

my mom was raised rc, so i'm familiar with the basics and my grandaughter attend one rc church in nc where one priest confesses the the lord doesnt exist!

where does it say in the word of god that all priests must not marry, peter the first pope had a wife,
the rc does much good no doubt the kiwanis , the charities and the adoption programs.. but biblical doctrine is good and necessary

so if i die will you or a priest forgive my sins, if i'm not saved, and if you do will i go to heaven from purgatory.or to hell. answer first then reread what the bible says

jason
 
my grandaughter attend one rc church in nc where one priest confesses the the lord doesnt exist!

What Catholic church would that be Jason? I find that hard to believe.

the rc does much good no doubt the kiwanis

You might have meant the Knights of Columbus. I don't think the Kiwanis is a Catholic organization.


so if i die will you or a priest forgive my sins, if i'm not saved, and if you do will i go to heaven from purgatory.or to hell. answer first then reread what the bible says

Jason, I thought you were familiar with the basics of Catholicism? You have the wrong idea of Last Rites, praying for the dead, and purgatory. Better study up friend, but don't do it from anti-catholic websites or you will be misled.

Peace
 
A-Christian said:
Jason, I thought you were familiar with the basics of Catholicism? You have the wrong idea of Last Rites, praying for the dead, and purgatory. Better study up friend, but don't do it from anti-catholic websites or you will be misled.

Peace
A-Christian or Catholic, I will admit that I don't know anything about the Catholic faith. I have always wondered what the purpose of confession to the priest was. We might move this question to the end-times threads so we are not out of line. Everybody else, please, this question is not intended to start any bashing. I am simply interested in learning a little about another man's faith.

God bless, Westtexas
 
TheCatholic, do you believe our sins aren't forgiven unless we confess to a priest? Do you believe we cannot go straight to God and confess?
 
A-Christian said:
my grandaughter attend one rc church in nc where one priest confesses the the lord doesnt exist!

What Catholic church would that be Jason? I find that hard to believe

[quote:ms1tt6b7]the rc does much good no doubt the kiwanis

You might have meant the Knights of Columbus. I don't think the Kiwanis is a Catholic organization.


so if i die will you or a priest forgive my sins, if i'm not saved, and if you do will i go to heaven from purgatory.or to hell. answer first then reread what the bible says

Jason, I thought you were familiar with the basics of Catholicism? You have the wrong idea of Last Rites, praying for the dead, and purgatory. Better study up friend, but don't do it from anti-catholic websites or you will be misled.

Peace[/quote:ms1tt6b7]
why pray for the dead, well there are dead. it's to late, note what David did when he fasted for his son that he had with bathsheba that was on the death's door and the died, he stopped and when asked why he said can i bring him back again, i shall go to him, but he shall not come to me.. doesnt say where the child went..


on the priest why you cant believe that theres' wolves in sheep's clothing, false prophet, surely you arent niave.. i guess those priest that are pedophiles are real either, and yes the protestant churches have them as well.

i'm jewish by ancestry and when my ucle died, he had friends that were catholic.. they told me that they would pray for him to enter in heaven.. my response, i hope he was saved.. theirs we can pray him into heaven..hmm so you tell me.
 
i'm not bashing catholiscm. i do the same with some of my church if need be and tell them what i believe the word says.not what saith charles stanley or any other preacher.. what does the bible say, not man's tradition..

not that charles stanley is bad, but unless its the bible alone you get opinion from the author not authority from the lord, a difference..
 
Please, please, PLEASE everybody,
read the first paragraoph of the OP.

This is NOT a Catholic issue.
Please respect that. I don't want my thread deleted.
 
thanks a christian
This teaching is also based on the practice of prayer for the dead, already mentioned in Sacred Scripture: "Therefore [Judas Maccabeus] made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin."607 From the beginning the Church has honored the memory of the dead and offered prayers in suffrage for them, above all the Eucharistic sacrifice, so that, thus purified, they may attain the beatific vision of God.608 The Church also commends almsgiving, indulgences, and works of penance undertaken on behalf of the dead:


judas maccabeus, of the maccabean revolt against antiochus ephineses IV?yes
is that apochryva still part of the duay version. last time i looked i cant recall when if it was there.

the protestant church (most) dont accept them as canon.

jason
 
LET ME REPEAT for those who are hard of hearing:

This is NOT a Catholic issue. Many Christians believe and practice confession to a pastor, including: Coptics, "Traditional" Anglicans, Eastern Orthodox (Greek, Russian, etc.) Roman Catholics, Eastern Catholics, and others. Only those groups who trace themselves to so-called "Reformation" theology, or to the reformers themselves, reject this belief. And that, in fact, winds up being a small percentage of Christians.

TheCatholic said:
.

Okay, I want to say that this is NOT a Catholic issue. My research shows that many Christians believe and practice confession to a pastor, including: Coptics, "Traditional" Anglicans, Eastern Orthodox (Greek, Russian, etc.) Roman Catholics, Eastern Catholics, and others. Only those groups who trace themselves to so-called "Reformation" theology, or to the reformers themselves, reject this belief. And that, in fact, winds up being a small percentage of Christians.

So, with that in mind, here are three points to consider and comment on regardong confession to a minister:



1. Why do I have to go to a priest for confession instead of going straight to God? After all, the Bible says that "there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus" (1 Tim. 2:5).


The Lord does want us to come to him when we fall into sin. He wants to bring us forgiveness so much that he gave the apostles the power to forgive sins. This power given to the apostles and their successors does not come from within them but from God. Throughout the New Testament, Jesus gave the apostles authority over unclean spirits, the authority to heal, the authority to raise people from the dead, et cetera. No Christian assumes that these powers came from the men themselves, since God is the one that has chosen to use them to manifest his power and mercy.

In the words of Paul, "All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation" (2 Cor. 5:18). The apostles and their successors are merely ambassadors for Christ (2 Cor. 5:20), bringing his forgiveness to the world through the sacraments and the message of the gospel. If God has chosen to bring his message of forgiveness to the world by means of sinful, human ambassadors, why would he not be able to give these messengers the power to forgive and retain sins? And why would this not be a natural way for Jesus to extent his merciful presence on earth for all generations?

If Jesus has set up a way for us to draw near to him and receive his grace, why should we prefer another route? We would be like the three-year-old with his father who, in a rush to get home from the store, begins to run. "Let me pick you up," the father offers. The child says, "No, Dad. I’m fast. Just watch me." It takes them much longer to get home because the child’s pride prevents him from accepting his father’s help. Likewise, God does hear us when we ask for forgiveness, but it is dangerous and often prideful to stay away from what the saints call the "medicine box"â€â€the confessional. Why would a person wish to overcome their sins alone when they have the God-given power of the apostles’ successors at their disposal?



2. Where is the sacrament of confession in the Bible?

As soon as Jesus rose from the dead and earned salvation for us, he brought his apostles a new gift. After speaking peace to them, he said, "As the Father has sent me, even so I send you" (John 20:21). Just as Jesus was sent by the Father to reconcile the world to God, Jesus sent the apostles to continue his mission.

Jesus then breathed on the apostles. This is a verse that is often passed over, but it has extraordinary significance because it is only the second time in all of Scripture where God breathes on anyone. The other instance was at the moment of creation, when God breathed his own life into the nostrils of Adam. This should tell us that something of great importance is taking place. Upon doing this, Jesus said, "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained" (John 20:22–23).

Notice that Jesus is not simply commissioning the apostles to preach about God’s forgiveness. He is not saying, "Go tell everyone that when God forgives men’s sins, they’re forgiven." In using the second person plural you, Jesus is telling his apostles that by the power of the Holy Spirit he has given them the power to forgive and retain the sins of men. Having the power to forgive and to retain sins implies that the apostle knows what a person’s sins are, which in turn implies oral confession. Otherwise, how is the apostle to know what to retain or forgive?

In the same way that Jesus gave his apostles other supernatural powers (such as raising men from the dead), he gave them power to absolve sins (raising them from spiritual death). In Matthew 9, we read that Jesus forgave a paralytic and then healed him so "that you may know that the Son of man has authority on earth to forgive sins" (Matt. 9:6)

After he exercised this power as a man, the crowds glorified God for having given "such authority to men" (Matt. 9:8, emphasis added). Notice that Matthew indicates this power to forgive sins had been given to men, and not simply to a man.



3. Doesn’t confession of one’s sins imply that Christ’s work was insufficient? The Bible says that if I believe that Jesus is Lord, I’ll be saved.

The passage you referred to is Acts 16:31, which reads, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved." Sounds pretty simple. However, the Bible says much more about salvation and forgiveness. Jesus repeatedly affirmed that if we do not forgive others, we will not be forgiven (Matt. 6:15). When Jesus breathed on the apostles in John 20, he gave them the power to retain sins. But if one’s salvation is contingent upon nothing other than a verbal profession of faith, then there is no reason why Jesus would given any man the power to retain sins. In the midst of all of these passages what we need to be careful of is that we do not camp out on one particular Bible passage without consulting the rest of Scripture.

It is because of the work of Christ that we obtain forgiveness. All Christians can agree on that. What needs to be discussed is how that forgiveness comes to mankind. When Ananias spoke to Paul in Acts 22:16, he said, "And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins" (Acts 22:16). Later in the New Testament, the forgiveness of sins is tied to the sacrament of the anointing of the sick (James 5:13–15). Just as these Biblical practices are channels of God’s forgiving grace, the sacrament of confession does not add to or take away from the finished work of Christ. It is evidence of the finished work of Christ in our midst.
 
very well, no futher communications from me on this thread

jason
 
TheCatholic said:
.

Why would a person wish to overcome their sins alone when they have the God-given power of the apostles’ successors at their disposal?

How can you claim the OP is not Catholic in nature when Apostolic Succession is clearly being referred to?
Making note that "This is not a Catholic issue" when the doctrines of Catholic practice are being upheld doesn't make it "Non-Catholic".

I'll leave this open for discussion to see how non-Catholic the thread can become... if possible.

BTW,
No pastor/minister I've known ever taught the congregation or anyone must confess sins to him. :shrug
 
.

This could get interesting ...... :chin


:popcorn .... :pepsi
 
I'm still waiting for an answer to my question:

JoJo said:
TheCatholic, do you believe our sins aren't forgiven unless we confess to a priest?
 
TheCatholic said:
LET ME REPEAT for those who are hard of hearing:

This is NOT a Catholic issue. Many Christians believe and practice confession to a pastor, including: Coptics, "Traditional" Anglicans, Eastern Orthodox (Greek, Russian, etc.) Roman Catholics, Eastern Catholics, and others. Only those groups who trace themselves to so-called "Reformation" theology, or to the reformers themselves, reject this belief. And that, in fact, winds up being a small percentage of Christians.
Should Christianity be based on what the "majority" believe and profess or what is truth, whether the "majority" believe it or not?

Confession for salvation to another sinful human being is neither required for salvation nor taught anywhere in the word of God. Man is free to go directly to the throne room of grace on his own and speak directly to his Heavenly High priest - Jesus Christ.
 
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