"Confession" - The Sacrament

[TheCatholic]

"Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much." James 5:16

The brethren are to have a deep relational trust in the Lord with one another. Transparency is crucial in order to hear collectively from God. God not only speaks to a brother directly but also through the brethren as He wills. Furthermore, if a brother offends another brother, he is to leave his other duties and be first reconciled to the offended one. In so doing, he has reconnected the bond of oneness with him.

This has nothing to do with the authority tio administer the sacrament

 

[francisdesales]

"Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much." James 5:16

The brethren are to have a deep relational trust in the Lord with one another. Transparency is crucial in order to hear collectively from God. God not only speaks to a brother directly but also through the brethren as He wills. Furthermore, if a brother offends another brother, he is to leave his other duties and be first reconciled to the offended one. In so doing, he has reconnected the bond of oneness with him.

All of this is true, but does not address the fact that Christ gives authority to particular men to bind, loosen, and forgive sins - all in the name of Jesus Christ. Just as Baptism links us to Christ's passion, Confession also links us to Christ's salvific work on the cross. We are forgiven of sins, and this experience is deepened by the useage of signs and symbols that Christ implemented.

Regards

 

[TheCatholic]

"Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much." James 5:16

The brethren are to have a deep relational trust in the Lord with one another. Transparency is crucial in order to hear collectively from God. God not only speaks to a brother directly but also through the brethren as He wills. Furthermore, if a brother offends another brother, he is to leave his other duties and be first reconciled to the offended one. In so doing, he has reconnected the bond of oneness with him.

All of this is true, but does not address the fact that Christ gives authority to particular men to bind, loosen, and forgive sins - all in the name of Jesus Christ. Just as Baptism links us to Christ's passion, Confession also links us to Christ's salvific work on the cross. We are forgiven of sins, and this experience is deepened by the useage of signs and symbols that Christ implemented.

Regards

Well said

 

[stranger]

To theCatholic,

You could try this approach --- assuming that the priesthood of all believers is universally accepted - and within the kingdom of God the Lord Jesus Christ is the high priest forever - you have a priestly Kingdom not unlike the type found in the service of the temple in the OT.

Before the priests of the OT could make their offering for others - they had to purify themselves and in essence have their own sins forgiven. Now if a priest was in a state of sin and tried to perform his rituals - I would think that it was not efficacious.

In a contemporary setting, if a priest who has sinned (and been convicted of sin but still not forgiven) offers the sacrament (of penance) are you saying it would still be efficacious?

Wasn't the power to bind or loose / forgive sins or retain them an apostolic one - not one that every believer was granted?

blessings

 

[Ed the Ned]

I believe in the Lords prayer, I am told to pray to Our father who out in heaven, forgive us.......... Its up to Christ to forgive and up to me to ask for that forgiveness, no minister, no preacher.

I have a question regarding the opening thread though, and please don't lock this thread because of these comments, I just would like an explanation on the opening part of the OP.

Okay, I want to say that this is NOT a Catholic issue. My research shows that many Christians believe and practice confession to a pastor, including: Coptics, "Traditional" Anglicans, Eastern Orthodox (Greek, Russian, etc.) Roman Catholics, Eastern Catholics, and others. Only those groups who trace themselves to so-called "Reformation" theology, or to the reformers themselves, reject this belief. And that, in fact, winds up being a small percentage of Christians.

So, with that in mind, here are three points to consider and comment on regardong confession to a minister:

If you did not want this to be a catholic discussion then why did you obtain your questions and info from http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2001/0110sbs.asp.
and you left our question 4 (because it made reference to the Catholic faith)
I would also like to state the permission guidelines of that site, it would be good if you could adhere to them to.

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If I have overstepped the mark I apologize in advance. This is more an issue of copying another's work as your own. If you were the author I apologize.

 

[TheCatholic]

I believe in the Lords prayer, I am told to pray to Our father who out in heaven, forgive us.......... Its up to Christ to forgive and up to me to ask for that forgiveness, no minister, no preacher........

Its not an "either/or" prospect.
It IS Christ, but it is Christ working through the minister.

 

[TheCatholic]

To theCatholic,

You could try this approach --- assuming that the priesthood of all believers is universally accepted - and within the kingdom of God the Lord Jesus Christ is the high priest forever - you have a priestly Kingdom not unlike the type found in the service of the temple in the OT......

Yes. A quick note though: The Hebrews considered themselves a priestly people too, but they still had a ministerial priesthood. Now Christ is the High Priest, so there is no more earthly "High Priest", but that does not do away with ALL of the ministerial priesthood, it just does away with the one earthly high priest. I just wanted to throw that in. But now continue:

........Before the priests of the OT could make their offering for others - they had to purify themselves and in essence have their own sins forgiven. Now if a priest was in a state of sin and tried to perform his rituals - I would think that it was not efficacious......

Well, I would comment on that, but I could only give my Church's POV, and out of respect for the forum rules, I won't go there. But there is an answer to that.

........In a contemporary setting, if a priest who has sinned (and been convicted of sin but still not forgiven) offers the sacrament (of penance) are you saying it would still be efficacious? .....

I think it would be. But again, I won't go into detail in this Apologetics and Theology section

........Wasn't the power to bind or loose / forgive sins or retain them an apostolic one - not one that every believer was granted?

Yes. That is correct.

 

[TheCatholic]

If you did not want this to be a catholic discussion then why did you obtain your questions and info from http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2001/0110sbs.asp.
and you left our question 4 (because it made reference to the Catholic faith)
I would also like to state the permission guidelines of that site, it would be good if you could adhere to them to........

Well, you answered you own question. I did not quote it verbatem. I took information, worded it my own way, and made it non-denominational. This therefore does not violate permisson guidlines. After all, we ALL get our information from SOMEWHERE, and just word it in our own way. We don't just come up with our ideas out of thin air now do we.

I am well aware of the rules and do my best to stay within them, which is probably why this thread is still alive.

 

[TheCatholic]

"Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much." James 5:16

The brethren are to have a deep relational trust in the Lord with one another. Transparency is crucial in order to hear collectively from God. God not only speaks to a brother directly but also through the brethren as He wills. Furthermore, if a brother offends another brother, he is to leave his other duties and be first reconciled to the offended one. In so doing, he has reconnected the bond of oneness with him.

All of this is true, but does not address the fact that Christ gives authority to particular men to bind, loosen, and forgive sins - all in the name of Jesus Christ. Just as Baptism links us to Christ's passion, Confession also links us to Christ's salvific work on the cross. We are forgiven of sins, and this experience is deepened by the useage of signs and symbols that Christ implemented.

Regards

Well said, francisdesales.

I wonder how many people here know who Francis De Sales was and what he did.... ?

 

[francisdesales]

"Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much." James 5:16

The brethren are to have a deep relational trust in the Lord with one another. Transparency is crucial in order to hear collectively from God. God not only speaks to a brother directly but also through the brethren as He wills. Furthermore, if a brother offends another brother, he is to leave his other duties and be first reconciled to the offended one. In so doing, he has reconnected the bond of oneness with him.

All of this is true, but does not address the fact that Christ gives authority to particular men to bind, loosen, and forgive sins - all in the name of Jesus Christ. Just as Baptism links us to Christ's passion, Confession also links us to Christ's salvific work on the cross. We are forgiven of sins, and this experience is deepened by the useage of signs and symbols that Christ implemented.

Regards

Well said, francisdesales.

I wonder how many people here know who Francis De Sales was and what he did.... ?

He must have been an amazing miracle worker of a man to have converted thousands of Calvinsts, after my experience here with Calvinists...! Undoubtedly, he was recognized, even by his enemies, as a legitimate and holy man of God. Obviously, this gave his teachings more power to change people and bring them back home. A good example for us, no doubt, on how to defend the faith.

Regards

 

[TheCatholic]

He must have been an amazing miracle worker of a man to have converted thousands of Calvinsts, after my experience here with Calvinists...! Undoubtedly, he was recognized, even by his enemies, as a legitimate and holy man of God. Obviously, this gave his teachings more power to change people and bring them back home. A good example for us, no doubt, on how to defend the faith.

No doubt

 

[TheCatholic]

I highly recommend this book:

 

[Adullam]

"Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much." James 5:16

The brethren are to have a deep relational trust in the Lord with one another. Transparency is crucial in order to hear collectively from God. God not only speaks to a brother directly but also through the brethren as He wills. Furthermore, if a brother offends another brother, he is to leave his other duties and be first reconciled to the offended one. In so doing, he has reconnected the bond of oneness with him.

This has nothing to do with the authority tio administer the sacrament

Your tradition has nothing to do with the commands of Christ.

 

[TheCatholic]

Your tradition has nothing to do with the commands of Christ.

That is your opinion, and you are welcome to it.

The majority of Christianity disagreees with you.

 

[TheCatholic]

Let's see what the first Christians say:

The Didache:

"Confess your sins in church, and do not go up to your prayer with an evil conscience. This is the way of life. . . . On the Lord’s Day gather together, break bread, and give thanks, after confessing your transgressions so that your sacrifice may be pure" (Didache 4:14, 14:1 [A.D. 70]).


The Letter of Barnabas:

"You shall judge righteously. You shall not make a schism, but you shall pacify those that contend by bringing them together. You shall confess your sins. You shall not go to prayer with an evil conscience. This is the way of light" (Letter of Barnabas 19 [A.D. 74]).


Ignatius of Antioch:

"For as many as are of God and of Jesus Christ are also with the bishop. And as many as shall, in the exercise of penance, return into the unity of the Church, these, too, shall belong to God, that they may live according to Jesus Christ" (Letter to the Philadelphians 3 [A.D. 110]).

"For where there is division and wrath, God does not dwell. To all them that repent, the Lord grants forgiveness, if they turn in penitence to the unity of God, and to communion with the bishop" (ibid., 8).


Irenaeus:

"[The Gnostic disciples of Marcus] have deluded many women. . . . Their consciences have been branded as with a hot iron. Some of these women make a public confession, but others are ashamed to do this, and in silence, as if withdrawing from themselves the hope of the life of God, they either apostatize entirely or hesitate between the two courses" (Against Heresies 1:22 [A.D. 189]).


Tertullian:

"[Regarding confession, some] flee from this work as being an exposure of themselves, or they put it off from day to day. I presume they are more mindful of modesty than of salvation, like those who contract a disease in the more shameful parts of the body and shun making themselves known to the physicians; and thus they perish along with their own bashfulness" (Repentance 10:1 [A.D. 203]).


Hippolytus:

"[The bishop conducting the ordination of the new bishop shall pray:] God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. . . . Pour forth now that power which comes from you, from your royal Spirit, which you gave to your beloved Son, Jesus Christ, and which he bestowed upon his holy apostles . . . and grant this your servant, whom you have chosen for the episcopate, [the power] to feed your holy flock and to serve without blame as your high priest, ministering night and day to propitiate unceasingly before your face and to offer to you the gifts of your holy Church, and by the Spirit of the high priesthood to have the authority to forgive sins, in accord with your command" (Apostolic Tradition 3 [A.D. 215]).


Origen:

"[A final method of forgiveness], albeit hard and laborious [is] the remission of sins through penance, when the sinner . . . does not shrink from declaring his sin to a priest of the Lord and from seeking medicine, after the manner of him who say, ‘I said, "To the Lord I will accuse myself of my iniquity"’" (Homilies on Leviticus 2:4 [A.D. 248]).


Cyprian of Carthage:

"The apostle [Paul] likewise bears witness and says: ‘ . . . Whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord’ [1 Cor. 11:27]. But [the impenitent] spurn and despise all these warnings; before their sins are expiated, before they have made a confession of their crime, before their conscience has been purged in the ceremony and at the hand of the priest . . . they do violence to [the Lord’s] body and blood, and with their hands and mouth they sin against the Lord more than when they denied him" (The Lapsed 15:1–3 (A.D. 251]).

"Of how much greater faith and salutary fear are they who . . . confess their sins to the priests of God in a straightforward manner and in sorrow, making an open declaration of conscience. . . . I beseech you, brethren, let everyone who has sinned confess his sin while he is still in this world, while his confession is still admissible, while the satisfaction and remission made through the priests are still pleasing before the Lord" (ibid., 28).

"inners may do penance for a set time, and according to the rules of discipline come to public confession, and by imposition of the hand of the bishop and clergy receive the right of Communion. [But now some] with their time [of penance] still unfulfilled . . . they are admitted to Communion, and their name is presented; and while the penitence is not yet performed, confession is not yet made, the hands of the bishop and clergy are not yet laid upon them, the Eucharist is given to them; although it is written, ‘Whosoever shall eat the bread and drink the cup of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord’ [1 Cor. 11:27]" (Letters 9:2 [A.D. 253]).

"And do not think, dearest brother, that either the courage of the brethren will be lessened, or that martyrdoms will fail for this cause, that penance is relaxed to the lapsed, and that the hope of peace [i.e., absolution] is offered to the penitent. . . . For to adulterers even a time of repentance is granted by us, and peace is given" (ibid., 51[55]:20).

"But I wonder that some are so obstinate as to think that repentance is not to be granted to the lapsed, or to suppose that pardon is to be denied to the penitent, when it is written, ‘Remember whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works’ [Rev. 2:5], which certainly is said to him who evidently has fallen, and whom the Lord exhorts to rise up again by his deeds [of penance], because it is written, ‘Alms deliver from death’ [Tob. 12:9]" (ibid., 51[55]:22).


Aphraahat the Persian Sage:

"You [priests], then, who are disciples of our illustrious physician [Christ], you ought not deny a curative to those in need of healing. And if anyone uncovers his wound before you, give him the remedy of repentance. And he that is ashamed to make known his weakness, encourage him so that he will not hide it from you. And when he has revealed it to you, do not make it public, lest because of it the innocent might be reckoned as guilty by our enemies and by those who hate us" (Treatises 7:3 [A.D. 340]).


Basil the Great:

"It is necessary to confess our sins to those to whom the dispensation of God’s mysteries is entrusted. Those doing penance of old are found to have done it before the saints. It is written in the Gospel that they confessed their sins to John the Baptist [Matt. 3:6], but in Acts [19:18] they confessed to the apostles" (Rules Briefly Treated 288 [A.D. 374]).


John Chrysostom:

"Priests have received a power which God has given neither to angels nor to archangels. It was said to them: ‘Whatsoever you shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatsoever you shall loose, shall be loosed.’ Temporal rulers have indeed the power of binding; but they can only bind the body. Priests, in contrast, can bind with a bond which pertains to the soul itself and transcends the very heavens. Did [God] not give them all the powers of heaven? ‘Whose sins you shall forgive,’ he says, ‘they are forgiven them; whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.’ What greater power is there than this? The Father has given all judgment to the Son. And now I see the Son placing all this power in the hands of men [Matt. 10:40; John 20:21–23]. They are raised to this dignity as if they were already gathered up to heaven" (The Priesthood 3:5 [A.D. 387]).


Ambrose of Milan:

"For those to whom [the right of binding and loosing] has been given, it is plain that either both are allowed, or it is clear that neither is allowed. Both are allowed to the Church, neither is allowed to heresy. For this right has been granted to priests only" (Penance 1:1 [A.D. 388]).


Jerome:

"If the serpent, the devil, bites someone secretly, he infects that person with the venom of sin. And if the one who has been bitten keeps silence and does not do penance, and does not want to confess his wound . . . then his brother and his master, who have the word [of absolution] that will cure him, cannot very well assist him" (Commentary on Ecclesiastes 10:11 [A.D. 388]).


Augustine:

"When you shall have been baptized, keep to a good life in the commandments of God so that you may preserve your baptism to the very end. I do not tell you that you will live here without sin, but they are venial sins which this life is never without. Baptism was instituted for all sins. For light sins, without which we cannot live, prayer was instituted. . . . But do not commit those sins on account of which you would have to be separated from the body of Christ. Perish the thought! For those whom you see doing penance have committed crimes, either adultery or some other enormities. That is why they are doing penance. If their sins were light, daily prayer would suffice to blot them out. . . . In the Church, therefore, there are three ways in which sins are forgiven: in baptisms, in prayer, and in the greater humility of penance" (Sermon to Catechumens on the Creed 7:15, 8:16 [A.D. 395]).

 

[francisdesales]

Let's see what the first Christians say:

The Didache:

"Confess your sins in church, and do not go up to your prayer with an evil conscience. This is the way of life. . . . On the Lord’s Day gather together, break bread, and give thanks, after confessing your transgressions so that your sacrifice may be pure" (Didache 4:14, 14:1 [A.D. 70]).


The Letter of Barnabas:

"You shall judge righteously. You shall not make a schism, but you shall pacify those that contend by bringing them together. You shall confess your sins. You shall not go to prayer with an evil conscience. This is the way of light" (Letter of Barnabas 19 [A.D. 74]).


Ignatius of Antioch:

"For as many as are of God and of Jesus Christ are also with the bishop. And as many as shall, in the exercise of penance, return into the unity of the Church, these, too, shall belong to God, that they may live according to Jesus Christ" (Letter to the Philadelphians 3 [A.D. 110]).

"For where there is division and wrath, God does not dwell. To all them that repent, the Lord grants forgiveness, if they turn in penitence to the unity of God, and to communion with the bishop" (ibid., 8).


Irenaeus:

"[The Gnostic disciples of Marcus] have deluded many women. . . . Their consciences have been branded as with a hot iron. Some of these women make a public confession, but others are ashamed to do this, and in silence, as if withdrawing from themselves the hope of the life of God, they either apostatize entirely or hesitate between the two courses" (Against Heresies 1:22 [A.D. 189]).


Tertullian:

"[Regarding confession, some] flee from this work as being an exposure of themselves, or they put it off from day to day. I presume they are more mindful of modesty than of salvation, like those who contract a disease in the more shameful parts of the body and shun making themselves known to the physicians; and thus they perish along with their own bashfulness" (Repentance 10:1 [A.D. 203]).


Hippolytus:

"[The bishop conducting the ordination of the new bishop shall pray:] God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. . . . Pour forth now that power which comes from you, from your royal Spirit, which you gave to your beloved Son, Jesus Christ, and which he bestowed upon his holy apostles . . . and grant this your servant, whom you have chosen for the episcopate, [the power] to feed your holy flock and to serve without blame as your high priest, ministering night and day to propitiate unceasingly before your face and to offer to you the gifts of your holy Church, and by the Spirit of the high priesthood to have the authority to forgive sins, in accord with your command" (Apostolic Tradition 3 [A.D. 215]).


Origen:

"[A final method of forgiveness], albeit hard and laborious [is] the remission of sins through penance, when the sinner . . . does not shrink from declaring his sin to a priest of the Lord and from seeking medicine, after the manner of him who say, ‘I said, "To the Lord I will accuse myself of my iniquity"’" (Homilies on Leviticus 2:4 [A.D. 248]).


Cyprian of Carthage:

"The apostle [Paul] likewise bears witness and says: ‘ . . . Whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord’ [1 Cor. 11:27]. But [the impenitent] spurn and despise all these warnings; before their sins are expiated, before they have made a confession of their crime, before their conscience has been purged in the ceremony and at the hand of the priest . . . they do violence to [the Lord’s] body and blood, and with their hands and mouth they sin against the Lord more than when they denied him" (The Lapsed 15:1–3 (A.D. 251]).

"Of how much greater faith and salutary fear are they who . . . confess their sins to the priests of God in a straightforward manner and in sorrow, making an open declaration of conscience. . . . I beseech you, brethren, let everyone who has sinned confess his sin while he is still in this world, while his confession is still admissible, while the satisfaction and remission made through the priests are still pleasing before the Lord" (ibid., 28).

"inners may do penance for a set time, and according to the rules of discipline come to public confession, and by imposition of the hand of the bishop and clergy receive the right of Communion. [But now some] with their time [of penance] still unfulfilled . . . they are admitted to Communion, and their name is presented; and while the penitence is not yet performed, confession is not yet made, the hands of the bishop and clergy are not yet laid upon them, the Eucharist is given to them; although it is written, ‘Whosoever shall eat the bread and drink the cup of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord’ [1 Cor. 11:27]" (Letters 9:2 [A.D. 253]).

"And do not think, dearest brother, that either the courage of the brethren will be lessened, or that martyrdoms will fail for this cause, that penance is relaxed to the lapsed, and that the hope of peace [i.e., absolution] is offered to the penitent. . . . For to adulterers even a time of repentance is granted by us, and peace is given" (ibid., 51[55]:20).

"But I wonder that some are so obstinate as to think that repentance is not to be granted to the lapsed, or to suppose that pardon is to be denied to the penitent, when it is written, ‘Remember whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works’ [Rev. 2:5], which certainly is said to him who evidently has fallen, and whom the Lord exhorts to rise up again by his deeds [of penance], because it is written, ‘Alms deliver from death’ [Tob. 12:9]" (ibid., 51[55]:22).


Aphraahat the Persian Sage:

"You [priests], then, who are disciples of our illustrious physician [Christ], you ought not deny a curative to those in need of healing. And if anyone uncovers his wound before you, give him the remedy of repentance. And he that is ashamed to make known his weakness, encourage him so that he will not hide it from you. And when he has revealed it to you, do not make it public, lest because of it the innocent might be reckoned as guilty by our enemies and by those who hate us" (Treatises 7:3 [A.D. 340]).


Basil the Great:

"It is necessary to confess our sins to those to whom the dispensation of God’s mysteries is entrusted. Those doing penance of old are found to have done it before the saints. It is written in the Gospel that they confessed their sins to John the Baptist [Matt. 3:6], but in Acts [19:18] they confessed to the apostles" (Rules Briefly Treated 288 [A.D. 374]).


John Chrysostom:

"Priests have received a power which God has given neither to angels nor to archangels. It was said to them: ‘Whatsoever you shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatsoever you shall loose, shall be loosed.’ Temporal rulers have indeed the power of binding; but they can only bind the body. Priests, in contrast, can bind with a bond which pertains to the soul itself and transcends the very heavens. Did [God] not give them all the powers of heaven? ‘Whose sins you shall forgive,’ he says, ‘they are forgiven them; whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.’ What greater power is there than this? The Father has given all judgment to the Son. And now I see the Son placing all this power in the hands of men [Matt. 10:40; John 20:21–23]. They are raised to this dignity as if they were already gathered up to heaven" (The Priesthood 3:5 [A.D. 387]).


Ambrose of Milan:

"For those to whom [the right of binding and loosing] has been given, it is plain that either both are allowed, or it is clear that neither is allowed. Both are allowed to the Church, neither is allowed to heresy. For this right has been granted to priests only" (Penance 1:1 [A.D. 388]).


Jerome:

"If the serpent, the devil, bites someone secretly, he infects that person with the venom of sin. And if the one who has been bitten keeps silence and does not do penance, and does not want to confess his wound . . . then his brother and his master, who have the word [of absolution] that will cure him, cannot very well assist him" (Commentary on Ecclesiastes 10:11 [A.D. 388]).


Augustine:

"When you shall have been baptized, keep to a good life in the commandments of God so that you may preserve your baptism to the very end. I do not tell you that you will live here without sin, but they are venial sins which this life is never without. Baptism was instituted for all sins. For light sins, without which we cannot live, prayer was instituted. . . . But do not commit those sins on account of which you would have to be separated from the body of Christ. Perish the thought! For those whom you see doing penance have committed crimes, either adultery or some other enormities. That is why they are doing penance. If their sins were light, daily prayer would suffice to blot them out. . . . In the Church, therefore, there are three ways in which sins are forgiven: in baptisms, in prayer, and in the greater humility of penance" (Sermon to Catechumens on the Creed 7:15, 8:16 [A.D. 395]).

Humphf... What did those first Catholics know, anyway... Only people 2000 years removed reading a bible interpreted from an interpretation of another interpretation of the bible can REALLY figure out what Christ REALLY meant...

 

[TheCatholic]

Humphf... What did those first Catholics know, anyway... Only people 2000 years removed reading a bible interpreted from an interpretation of another interpretation of the bible can REALLY figure out what Christ REALLY meant...

Sarcasm
I love it

 

[francisdesales]

Humphf... What did those first Catholics know, anyway... Only people 2000 years removed reading a bible interpreted from an interpretation of another interpretation of the bible can REALLY figure out what Christ REALLY meant...

Sarcasm
I love it

;)

 

[TheCatholic]

[youtube:1e638cjw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRQCiYlrugc&feature=PlayList&p=C626D3E1EA3E26B2&index=4[/youtube:1e638cjw]

 

[follower of Christ]

.

Okay, I want to say that this is NOT a Catholic issue. My research shows that many Christians believe and practice confession to a pastor, including: Coptics, "Traditional" Anglicans, Eastern Orthodox (Greek, Russian, etc.) Roman Catholics, Eastern Catholics, and others. Only those groups who trace themselves to so-called "Reformation" theology, or to the reformers themselves, reject this belief. And that, in fact, winds up being a small percentage of Christians.

While I will freely ADMIT my shortcomings to another man, my 'confession' is to God alone.