CONVICTION...

[Grubal Muruch]

Re: a more sure word of prophecy

Well I think what is written in the Letter is an expression of the Spirit. And I agree the bible talks of both. But of course the point of the bible is to make a distinction between the Spirit and the Letter. That is how I distinguish the two. For one can read the letter but yet not know the Spirit. And indeed some people seek the Spirit through the Letter, but still it is the Spirit that they seek, not the Letter.

childeye, you have a tendency to, "make difficult" a simple matter...You need to think about something before you "present" it to others OK?? What you wrote here is "utterly" confusing...I'm trying to help you because I think your an OK sort of person and I'm not angry with you, just trying to help OK??

 

[childeye]

Re: a more sure word of prophecy

childeye, you have a tendency to, "make difficult" a simple matter...You need to think about something before you "present" it to others OK?? What you wrote here is "utterly" confusing...I'm trying to help you because I think your an OK sort of person and I'm not angry with you, just trying to help OK??

Okay Grubal. Please help me here. We are supposed to affirm our faith with scripture, right? And I was taught the Word is a person not a book. So to affirm this, I look in scripture and it says this.

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2The same was in the beginning with God.
3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

Please note that the Word is a Him, a person. So scripture affirms what I have learned. So how is it you say I am wrong?

 

[Grubal Muruch]

Re: a more sure word of prophecy

Okay Grubal. Please help me here. We are supposed to affirm our faith with scripture, right? And I was taught the Word is a person not a book. So to affirm this, I look in scripture and it says this.

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2The same was in the beginning with God.
3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

Please note that the Word is a Him, a person. So scripture affirms what I have learned. So how is it you say I am wrong?

The "written", "word of God" is the "inspired" Scriptures...Written to humanity...My opinion is that, Jesus is the "personification" of the written word, at least where He is mentioned or "alluded" to...Without further study of that question, that's the best I can do for now...

 

[childeye]

Re: a more sure word of prophecy

=Grubal Muruch;590865]The "written", "word of God" is the "inspired" Scriptures...Written to humanity...My opinion is that, Jesus is the "personification" of the written word, at least where He is mentioned or "alluded" to...Without further study of that question, that's the best I can do for now...[/QUOTE]

I think I see why you have a hard time understanding the things I say.

 

[reba]

World English Dictionary
semantic (sɪˈmæntɪk) —adj 1. of or relating to meaning or arising from distinctions between the meanings of different words or symbols 2. of or relating to semantics 3. logic concerned with the interpretation of a formal theory, as when truth tables are given as an account of the sentential connectives [C19: from Greek sēmantikos having significance, from sēmainein to signify, from sēma a sign] se'mantically —adv

 

[glorydaz]

Re: a more sure word of prophecy

The "written", "word of God" is the "inspired" Scriptures...Written to humanity...My opinion is that, Jesus is the "personification" of the written word, at least where He is mentioned or "alluded" to...Without further study of that question, that's the best I can do for now...

It's as you say, Grubal, it's a demand to make something more difficult than it needs to be. I could confuse matters even more by speaking of the arm of God or the hand of God, where God is revealed to man through circumstances or events. Those are also mentioned in the Word of God. ;)

It was quite clear to the Hebrews and the Greeks since the word "Logos" was well known among them. However, we see the problem that exists for some today. Childeye seems to think "The Word" is another name for Jesus, and so prefers to worship Him rather than a book.

Jesus Christ is the Son of God. God, Himself, come in the form of a man.
He's called the Word of God in John 1 because He is God revealed in human form.
The Bible is God revealed through the pens of inspired men, just as He was revealed through Jesus.

Both are revelations of God. When we know Christ, we know God. When we know the Bible, we know God.

Logos is a revelation that comes from God to man.

By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.

He sent his word, and healed them, and delivered them from their destructions.

Since the resurrection of Jesus Christ, we know God through the Spirit of God, also known as the Spirit of Christ. We have God dwelling in us. The Holy Spirit of God/Christ reveals Himself to us through the Word of God (Bible). He teaches us through the Bible. He doesn't whisper words of wisdom in our ears. He is Spirit. Therefore, He uses the Logos written down for us so we can know Him. That Logos is the written word of God....the Sacred Scripture.

So if anyone claims some higher form of communication with the Word of God, they'd best be speaking of the Holy Scripture. His Spirit within "speaks" to us through the Bible. If someone wants to hear His words, they'd best be looking where they're found....the Bible.

Oh yes, there's this...."And to whom is the ARM OF THE LORD revealed? For he shall grow up...."

Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed? For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Who else but God could be a Hand, An Arm, The Word....and even have wings to shelter under? Amazing.

 

[Grubal Muruch]

Re: a more sure word of prophecy

=Grubal Muruch;590865]The "written", "word of God" is the "inspired" Scriptures...Written to humanity...My opinion is that, Jesus is the "personification" of the written word, at least where He is mentioned or "alluded" to...Without further study of that question, that's the best I can do for now...

I think I see why you have a hard time understanding the things I say.[/QUOTE]

I think I have a "hard time" understanding you, because the way you write...

 

[Grubal Muruch]

Re: a more sure word of prophecy

It's as you say, Grubal, it's a demand to make something more difficult than it needs to be. I could confuse matters even more by speaking of the arm of God or the hand of God, where God is revealed to man through circumstances or events. Those are also mentioned in the Word of God. ;)

It was quite clear to the Hebrews and the Greeks since the word "Logos" was well known among them. However, we see the problem that exists for some today. Childeye seems to think "The Word" is another name for Jesus, and so prefers to worship Him rather than a book.

Jesus Christ is the Son of God. God, Himself, come in the form of a man.
He's called the Word of God in John 1 because He is God revealed in human form.
The Bible is God revealed through the pens of inspired men, just as He was revealed through Jesus.

Both are revelations of God. When we know Christ, we know God. When we know the Bible, we know God.

Logos is a revelation that comes from God to man.


Since the resurrection of Jesus Christ, we know God through the Spirit of God, also known as the Spirit of Christ. We have God dwelling in us. The Holy Spirit of God/Christ reveals Himself to us through the Word of God (Bible). He teaches us through the Bible. He doesn't whisper words of wisdom in our ears. He is Spirit. Therefore, He uses the Logos written down for us so we can know Him. That Logos is the written word of God....the Sacred Scripture.

So if anyone claims some higher form of communication with the Word of God, they'd best be speaking of the Holy Scripture. His Spirit within "speaks" to us through the Bible. If someone wants to hear His words, they'd best be looking where they're found....the Bible.

Oh yes, there's this...."And to whom is the ARM OF THE LORD revealed? For he shall grow up...."


Who else but God could be a Hand, An Arm, The Word....and even have wings to shelter under? Amazing.

AMEN Glory, you "articulated" it "better" than I...

 

[childeye]

Re: a more sure word of prophecy

=glorydaz;590898]It's as you say, Grubal, it's a demand to make something more difficult than it needs to be.

I said God is Love. How is that so complicated for you?God's a person as in a Spirit. He is not a thing. How is that complicated?

However, we see the problem that exists for some today. Childeye seems to think "The Word" is another name for Jesus, and so prefers to worship Him rather than a book.

Yes I do think Jesus is the Word.

Jesus Christ is the Son of God. God, Himself, come in the form of a man.
He's called the Word of God in John 1 because He is God revealed in human form.

Yes the person of God.

The Bible is God revealed through the pens of inspired men, just as He was revealed through Jesus.

The writings contained in the bible are a testimony to Him.

Both are revelations of God. When we know Christ, we know God. When we know the Bible, we know God.

Many can think they know the bible and yet not know God. Many can never read the bible and know God.

Logos is a revelation that comes from God to man.

Amen.

Since the resurrection of Jesus Christ, we know God through the Spirit of God, also known as the Spirit of Christ. We have God dwelling in us.

Amen.

The Holy Spirit of God/Christ reveals Himself to us through the Word of God (Bible). He teaches us through the Bible.

He can use the bible yes, He can use nature, astronomy, poems, books ,stories, songs, movies, plays. In fact all of creation testifies to His glory.

He doesn't whisper words of wisdom in our ears.

In your heart mind and soul He does whisper, for there is where He resides.

He is Spirit.

That's just what I said, He resides in us even as we reside in Him for He is Truth.

Therefore, He uses the Logos written down for us so we can know Him.

Some people come to know Him through scripture. Of course the proof of this is that there are those who knew God before scripture existed. Someone had to hear from God to write scripture.

That Logos is the written word of God....the Sacred Scripture.

No, the Logos is the Spirit of God and has existed long before scripture.

So if anyone claims some higher form of communication with the Word of God, they'd best be speaking of the Holy Scripture.

Well that does away with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Your assertion is not coherent therefore. Who wrote the scriptures? Men who heard from God in the manner you say does not happen.

His Spirit within "speaks" to us through the Bible. If someone wants to hear His words, they'd best be looking where they're found....the Bible.

The Truth existed way before scripture did. Jesus was a real person. He didn't get his words by memorizing scripture.

Oh yes, there's this...."And to whom is the ARM OF THE LORD revealed? For he shall grow up...."

Yes this is Jesus the scripture is testifying to.

Who else but God could be a Hand, An Arm, The Word....and even have wings to shelter under? Amazing.

Exactly, see? Even scripture agrees that Jesus is the Logos. Now why don't you believe the scriptures?

 

[glorydaz]

Re: a more sure word of prophecy

I said God is Love. How is that so complicated for you?God's a person as in a Spirit. He is not a thing. How is that complicated?

Yes I do think Jesus is the Word.

Yes the person of God.

The writings contained in the bible are a testimony to Him.

Many can think they know the bible and yet not know God. Many can never read the bible and know God.

Amen.


Amen.

He can use the bible yes, He can use nature, astronomy, poems, books ,stories, songs, movies, plays. In fact all of creation testifies to His glory.

In your heart mind and soul He does whisper, for there is where He resides.

That's just what I said, He resides in us even as we reside in Him for He is Truth.
Some people come to know Him through scripture. Of course the proof of this is that there are those who knew God before scripture existed. Someone had to hear from God to write scripture.

No, the Logos is the Spirit of God and has existed long before scripture.

Well that does away with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Your assertion is not coherent therefore. Who wrote the scriptures? Men who heard from God in the manner you say does not happen.

The Truth existed way before scripture did. Jesus was a real person. He didn't get his words by memorizing scripture.

Yes this is Jesus the scripture is testifying to.


Exactly, see? Even scripture agrees that Jesus is the Logos. Now why don't you believe the scriptures?

Okay, childeye. I can see you don't give much credence to the Bible. We can just leave it there.

 

[childeye]

Re: a more sure word of prophecy

Okay, childeye. I can see you don't give much credence to the Bible. We can just leave it there.

It would befit you to not leave it there, for it demeans us both for you to say such things about me that aren't true.

 

[glorydaz]

Re: a more sure word of prophecy

It would befit you to not leave it there, for it demeans us both for you to say such things about me that aren't true.

I speak the truth as I see it. If you feel I've demeaned you, I apologize.

 

[childeye]

Re: a more sure word of prophecy

I speak the truth as I see it. If you feel I've demeaned you, I apologize.

Apology accepted.

 

[reba]

You guys have lost a couple threads lately why not read the writing on the wall and stop being rude.

2.5: Respect each others' opinions. Address issues, not persons or personalities. Give other members the respect you would want them to give yourself.


Be careful when casting doubts on another salvation. Be respectful.

 

[childeye]

Conviction is to be throroughly persuaded of something, to be convinced. For this we must have one who is in need of redirection and one capable of persuading. But more than both of these, there must be a Truth that is not impotent in exposing falsehood. Therefore there is sin and there is God.

 

[Eventide]

CONVICTION... then FAITH

This is why I believe that CONVICTION is the precursor to FAITH.. and not regeneration as so many are are taught and led to believe today.

Look at the clear example of faith in Heb 11..

These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

 

[glorydaz]

Re: CONVICTION... then FAITH

This is why I believe that CONVICTION is the precursor to FAITH.. and not regeneration as so many are are taught and led to believe today.

Look at the clear example of faith in Heb 11..

These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

I'm not sure I see the difference. Are you talking about how some believe they are regenerated first and then given faith? Faith has to come before regeneration. Conviction comes with faith, doesn't it? Sometimes, when you really stop to think about it, it all happens pretty much at once. Sometimes we try to go step-by-step when it's really a slide, a dawning...or even a birth.

1 Peter 1:5
Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

 

[Eventide]

Re: CONVICTION... then FAITH

Are you talking about how some believe they are regenerated first and then given faith?

Yes, and that is not taught anywhere in the scriptures.

Faith has to come before regeneration.

That is certainly what I see the holy scriptures teaching.

Conviction comes with faith, doesn't it?

It can and does no doubt, although I'm talking about before one is saved.. in that sense I would say that faith comes with conviction.. we need to be convinced of sin first, convinced of His righteousness, etc..

Sometimes, when you really stop to think about it, it all happens pretty much at once. Sometimes we try to go step-by-step when it's really a slide, a dawning...or even a birth.

I suppose that it could, although again I think that a person needs to be convinced of something before they trust it to be true.

 

[childeye]

Re: CONVICTION... then FAITH

This is why I believe that CONVICTION is the precursor to FAITH.. and not regeneration as so many are are taught and led to believe today.

Look at the clear example of faith in Heb 11..

These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

Eventide, I've thought about this and semantics are always a problem. I am going to assume you meant conviction as in convicted of sin, and that you mean faith as in a true faith in Jesus as the son of God, not a pseudo kind of faith in Jesus. Even then I can only speak for myself, but I tend to agree with you.

 

[Eventide]

Re: CONVICTION... then FAITH

Eventide, I've thought about this and semantics are always a problem. I am going to assume you meant conviction as in convicted of sin, and that you mean faith as in a true faith in Jesus as the son of God, not a pseudo kind of faith in Jesus. Even then I can only speak for myself, but I tend to agree with you.

Yes, absolutely.. that's what the Holy Spirit convicts (convinces) us of.. our SIN, RIGHTEOUSNESS (the righteousness of Christ of course), and judgment.