CONVICTION...

[childeye]

Re: a more sure word of prophecy

It's staggering to say the least that we have a more sure word of prophecy in the scriptures than hearing God's voice audibly as Peter did.. and the holy scriptures are the Christian's food, our daily bread.. the word is infinite in its power to speak to the hearts and minds of His people, and it will never be exhausted in our lifetimes.. it is God's testimony concerning His Son.

I don't deny that, why do you keep harping on it?

 

[childeye]

Re: It is written...

=Eventide;590594]Another thing which comes to mind is the Lord's temptation in the wilderness.. in each response the LORD said... it is written.. how much more should a Christian rely upon what is written to ward off the fiery darts of the devil..?

Well since Satan was using the scriptures also, I think it is fitting that Jesus give him a lesson in their proper use.

I'm sure that Satan can appear loving... even as an Angel of light.. and we can rest assured upon what is written.. it is an essential piece of the armour of God.

Satan can deceive people, which is what I say often. And he can use scripture and even appear loving, but the fruit is clearly telltale. No one picks fruit from a thorn bush. Knowing the word is not the same as doing the word.

 

[childeye]

Re: Standing on the promises of God

The entire OT was written down and entrusted with the very nation which rejected Him as their King.. amazing to say the least.. and that's what is so important to realize and rest upon.. the story had already been told in countless ways throughout the pages of the OT which the prophets scripted for us.. and this is what Peter is clearly speaking of..

The NT is a perfect affirmation to the OT, and together they're undeniable evidence for the Christian to stand upon.

I know what you're saying and I agree. So what? The Old Testament is Old and we are in the New Covenant. It is about having the Spirit not about the letter.

 

[glorydaz]

I don't need endless amounts of evidence. I didn't even like seeing him go to the cross to prove it, but that was the only way to defeat Satan since Satan had the power of death and no mercy.

No, that was not the only way to defeat satan. Satan has no power over God in any way, and he never did. He is not an enemy that God had to "defeat." God is the Creator of the universe, satan is but one of God's creation.

What needed to be defeated was death and sin...not satan. Jesus went to the cross so that sin would no longer have to separate God from mankind. His death took away the barrier between God and mankind. Man was now able to freely come before the throne of God. When we are IN CHRIST, we enter eternal life...thus Jesus defeated death, and sin of it's power over us.

Just as sin and death came into the world by one man (Adam), they are defeated by one Man, Jesus Christ. "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:" (Rom. 5:12)

 

[glorydaz]

Re: It is written...

Well since Satan was using the scriptures also, I think it is fitting that Jesus give him a lesson in their proper use.

Satan can deceive people, which is what I say often. And he can use scripture and even appear loving, but the fruit is clearly telltale. No one picks fruit from a thorn bush. Knowing the word is not the same as doing the word.

Note the part in red. Have you ever considered the possibility that satan would be the FIRST one to tell you that you DON'T NEED to read the Bible to know God? Doesn't that remind you of ......... oh ............ possibly ......... EVE?

Plus, you can never DO the Word if you don't KNOW the Word. You can't know the Word unless you read it very carefully. You can't know Jesus or God unless you read the Book He supplied us to learn of Him.

 

[reba]

Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. Jas 1:23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:


2Ti 2:14 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.
2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
2Ti 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

 

[childeye]

=glorydaz;590604]No, that was not the only way to defeat satan. Satan has no power over God in any way, and he never did.

No one said Satan had power over God glorydaz.

He is not an enemy that God had to "defeat." God is the Creator of the universe, satan is but one of God's creation.

He is an enemy to man and to God. God was never threatened but strictly speaking, he sowed enmity between man and God. Matthew 13:25
King James Version (KJV)


25But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.

Christ defeated "the works" of Satan who had the power of death.
1 John 3:8
King James Version (KJV)


8He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

What needed to be defeated was death and sin...not satan.

Yes , as I said sin is seperation from God and it is death. These however were the works and power of Satan, not God. God did not give man the cause to distrust Him.

Jesus went to the cross so that sin would no longer have to separate God from mankind.

True since defeating Satan and getting the keys to hell and death Christ could set the prisoners free. There is much more depth to it.

His death took away the barrier between God and mankind.

I am more interested in the mechanics of all of that. For instance Christ sent the comforter which draws men back to God.

Man was now able to freely come before the throne of God.

Through Christ yes we have an intercessor.

When we are IN CHRIST, we enter eternal life...thus Jesus defeated death, and sin of it's power over us.

There's still healing that needs to take place, but of course I agree.
Revelation 12:10
King James Version (KJV)


10And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

Just as sin and death came into the world by one man , they are defeated by one Man, Jesus Christ. "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:" (Rom. 5:12)

You're not telling me anything I don't already know here. Unless you have some further elaboration. I see this as righteousness entering into mankind through the revelation of the Christ. Hence this righteousness is able to set one free from the unrighteousness that men were in through the iniquity of vanity.

Hebrews 2:14-15
King James Version (KJV)



14Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; 15And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

You've made my point with this scripture all the more as far as I can see.

 

[glorydaz]

I have always said that the Christ died for our sins, eventide. Even fools can preach the Gospel. It is all about loving others and getting rid of the carnal pride that measures one man against another.

Perhaps pride in one's own ability to love is a danger one could find relief from by reading the Word.

Love is a wonderful thing, but the heart is deceitfully wicked when left to it's own devices. It so easily puffs up with spiritual pride....even when there is no real basis for that pride.

 

[childeye]

Re: It is written...

=glorydaz;590606]Note the part in red. Have you ever considered the possibility that satan would be the FIRST one to tell you that you DON'T NEED to read the Bible to know God?

But scripture says we need not read the bible to know God. Besides, I don't read the bible because I need to. I read the bible because I Love to. As eventide says, it is a great affirmation. Affirmation of what is my point. Affirmation of what the Spirit tells me one on one.

Doesn't that remind you of ......... oh ............ possibly ......... EVE?

No, not at all. In fact Eve was after knowledge that puffs up, not knowing the person of God.

Plus, you can never DO the Word if you don't KNOW the Word.

Well of course not.

You can't know the Word unless you read it very carefully.

But the Word is a person, not a book. Scripture says the Word was made flesh.

You can't know Jesus or God unless you read the Book He supplied us to learn of Him.

I don't think that is absolutely true at all. A personal relationship with the author is greater than the book. God is not scripture. Throw the bible away and He still exists. He existed before the bible was ever written and yet men knew Him. Can you deny that? I agree the words of Christ are in the bible, but I believe them because they are true, not because they are written there.

 

[childeye]

=glorydaz;590615]Perhaps pride in one's own ability to love is a danger one could find relief from by reading the Word.

If one thinks that Love is their prerogative, at their discretion, one is definitely in danger of taking pride in their ability.

Love is a wonderful thing, but the heart is deceitfully wicked when left to it's own devices. It so easily puffs up with spiritual pride....even when there is no real basis for that pride.

No, Love doesn't puff up. God creates a pure heart within a person who receives His son. God's Love has no such carnal issues. Only freewill love does. For there are many who think they choose to Love. But we who know better, also know that we are debtors to Christ, so we stand in no danger of any realization of profit, our interest is the object of our Love. Nor do we consider Love the product of reason or logic, we know it is God in us. We Love simply because it is what makes us whole and is the right thing to do.

 

[childeye]

Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. Jas 1:23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:


2Ti 2:14 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.
2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
2Ti 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

Amen to all of this.

 

[glorydaz]

Re: It is written...

But scripture says we need not read the bible to know God. Besides, I don't read the bible because I need to. I read the bible because I Love to. As eventide says, it is a great affirmation. Affirmation of what is my point. Affirmation of what the Spirit tells me one on one.
No, not at all. In fact Eve was after knowledge that puffs up, not knowing the person of God.

Well of course not.
But the Word is a person, not a book. Scripture says the Word was made flesh.
I don't think that is absolutely true at all. A personal relationship with the author is greater than the book. God is not scripture. Throw the bible away and He still exists. He existed before the bible was ever written and yet men knew Him. Can you deny that? I agree the words of Christ are in the bible, but I believe them because they are true, not because they are written there.

You don't seem to understand about the Word being made flesh. I'm going to try and remember to say "Scripture" instead of the Word. Perhaps you'll be able to refrain from saying Scripture is a person. Christ is also the Bread of Life. If you don't eat of the bread of life, you won't have life. Does that mean you actually take a bite out of Christ? No, it means you read the Scriptures daily. Just as the manna was eaten daily, reading the Scripture has to be done on a regular basis. Not just because it brings out feelings of love.

Scripture has a purpose....understanding doctrine (I know you may not care about that), but it's also important so that you can hear correction and reproof for something you may be doing in your life. And to know what God expects from you...besides just showering love all around.

He may want you to actually go talk to people about Him and be able to give a coherent message. Yes?

2 Tim. 3:14-17 - "But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

 

[glorydaz]

If one thinks that Love is their prerogative, at their discretion, one is definitely in danger of taking pride in their ability. No, Love doesn't puff up. God creates a pure heart within a person who receives His son. God's Love has no such carnal issues. Only freewill love does. For there are many who think they choose to Love. But we who know better, also know that we are debtors to Christ, so we stand in no danger of any realization of profit, our interest is the object of our Love. Nor do we consider Love the product of reason or logic, we know it is God in us. We Love simply because it is what makes us whole and is the right thing to do.

Ouch...that part in red smacks of spiritual pride. Better go read the Scripture....for correction, of course.

You mention love eight times by my count, and you conclude with this statement, "We love simply because it is what makes us whole and is the RIGHT THING TO DO. You've just given yourself credit for something you claimed was God in you.

 

[Grubal Muruch]

Re: It is written...

You don't seem to understand about the Word being made flesh. I'm going to try and remember to say "Scripture" instead of the Word. Perhaps you'll be able to refrain from saying Scripture is a person. Christ is also the Bread of Life. If you don't eat of the bread of life, you won't have life. Does that mean you actually take a bite out of Christ? No, it means you read the Scriptures daily. Just as the manna was eaten daily, reading the Scripture has to be done on a regular basis. Not just because it brings out feelings of love.

Scripture has a purpose....understanding doctrine (I know you may not care about that), but it's also important so that you can hear correction and reproof for something you may be doing in your life. And to know what God expects from you...besides just showering love all around.

He may want you to actually go talk to people about Him and be able to give a coherent message. Yes?

2 Tim. 3:14-17 - "But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Excellent advise Glory. Unfortunately it will probably fall on deaf ears...

 

[Eventide]

I have always said that the Christ died for our sins, eventide.

Paul (the Apostle to the Gentiles) didn't write that Christ died for our sins... He wrote that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures.

The same Apostle who wrote that all scripture is given by inspiration of God.

I can't imagine why anyone who claims to love God so much would be arguing about scripture which God gave us..?

 

[Eventide]

Re: a more sure word of prophecy

I don't deny that, why do you keep harping on it?

I didn't say that you did.. and I LOVE to share thoughts concerning the holy scriptures..

Is that a problem for you ?

 

[WIP]

Just a reminder to respect each others' opinions and viewpoints. Please remember to watch the personal jabs. Although they've been subtle and taken in stride they can easily turn this discussion south.

 

[childeye]

=glorydaz;590643]Ouch...that part in red smacks of spiritual pride. Better go read the Scripture....for correction, of course.

What I said is in scripture. I can't help knowing God is Love and I will not retract from saying it.

You mention love eight times by my count, and you conclude with this statement, "We love simply because it is what makes us whole and is the RIGHT THING TO DO. You've just given yourself credit for something you claimed was God in you.

Where have I given myself credit for creating God? Let me say it this way for you. It is right to Love. Love makes people good people. Love, Love , Love, Love, Love, Love,Love. God , God ,God ,God ,God, God, God.

 

[childeye]

Re: It is written...

=glorydaz;590639]You don't seem to understand about the Word being made flesh. I'm going to try and remember to say "Scripture" instead of the Word. Perhaps you'll be able to refrain from saying Scripture is a person.

I didn't say scripture is a person. Where did I say that? I said the Word is a person.

Christ is also the Bread of Life. If you don't eat of the bread of life, you won't have life. Does that mean you actually take a bite out of Christ?

No it means I come to know the person of God by seeing the son.

No, it means you read the Scriptures daily. Just as the manna was eaten daily, reading the Scripture has to be done on a regular basis.

John 6:49

King James Version (KJV)


49Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.
Glorydaz, when Jesus is talking about eating him, he is saying believe in him.

Not just because it brings out feelings of love.

The words of Christ do cause me to love him. Nothing wrong with that.

Scripture has a purpose....understanding doctrine (I know you may not care about that),

Of course I care about understanding scripture, glorydaz. I don't read scripture hoping I don't understand it.

but it's also important so that you can hear correction and reproof for something you may be doing in your life.

God tells me what I need to know. That's why I know scripture. I don't claim to understand all of scripture, but I trust if I need to know it, God will show it.

And to know what God expects from you...besides just showering love all around.

Like what?

He may want you to actually go talk to people about Him and be able to give a coherent message. Yes?

Yes, and he certainly has me do that out of Love. Spreading the Good News is done for the sake of Loving others and wanting them to be set free.

2 Tim. 3:14-17 - "But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Yep, I knew that thanks be to God. As it says "knowing of whom thou hast learned them."

 

[childeye]

Paul (the Apostle to the Gentiles) didn't write that Christ died for our sins... He wrote that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures.

The same Apostle who wrote that all scripture is given by inspiration of God.

I can't imagine why anyone who claims to love God so much would be arguing about scripture which God gave us..?

Gee me neither. Those filthy infidels, how dare they?