Covid Vaccine, a Gospel imperative

[Rollo Tamasi]

You mean like the trouble that millions who have not gotten smallpox or polio have suffered?

No, just that vaccines cause cancer, period.
All the vaccines for covid are so new, who knows what's coming next.

 

[WIP]

Fair enough - would you get on a plane if you had a 1 in 100 chance of dying. Before you answer, consider what the world would be like if this was the case: 60,000 dead every single day.

It's not 1/100. It's .006/100.

 

[JLB]

We should not be pressured to take a vaccine under duress.

Everyone should be able to research for themselves, and make a decision on which vaccine to take or not take.

All side effects should be considered.

Please be suspect of anyone pushing you to get vaccinated or insinuating you are not a real Christian if you don't.




JLB

 

[stovebolts]

I agree. But there are still reasons for the vaccinated to promote vaccination in others:

1. The more unvaccinated people there are, the more the chance that a variant will arise against which my vaccine won't protect me from serious disease.
2. Needless diversion of health care resources - unvaccinated people are taking up hospital beds when they could have been at home with the sniffles (if they were vaccinated).

I can’t say that I disagree with anything here. From my perspective, very few people have a medical reasoning for not getting the vaccine.

Because this is a global pandemic, booster shots are inevitable even if the US was 85% vaccinated. This virus will be like any other pandemic where it will have to run its course. That being said, it would be very nice to minimize how many boosters were going to have to have. But at the end of the day, it’s going to be what it is.

 

[jaybo]

We should not be pressured to take a vaccine under duress.

Everyone should be able to research for themselves, and make a decision on which vaccine to take or not take.

All side effects should be considered.

Please be suspect of anyone pushing you to get vaccinated or insinuating you are not a real Christian if you don't.




JLB

Receiving the COVID-19 vaccine should be required, just as seatbelts are required. It's simply a matter of public health and safety.

Do you really think that the CDC and millions of doctors and other health care providers should be suspect? And that people who oppose them shouldn't be suspect?

 

[jaybo]

I can’t say that I disagree with anything here. From my perspective, very few people have a medical reasoning for not getting the vaccine.

Because this is a global pandemic, booster shots are inevitable even if the US was 85% vaccinated. This virus will be like any other pandemic where it will have to run its course. That being said, it would be very nice to minimize how many boosters were going to have to have. But at the end of the day, it’s going to be what it is.

I will definitely get a COVID-19 booster shot if it becomes available, just as I get a yearly flu shot (and any other vaccine my doctor recommends).

 

[jaybo]

To the best of my memory I have received vaccinations against measles, mumps, rubella, smallpox, polio, tetanus, shingles, pneumonia, COVID-19, and the flu (annually). And there may be others as well. I'm 77 and intend to live as long as I can -- with the help of modern medicine and the will of God.

 

[stovebolts]

What is your point? Again, this is not really debatable - the experts recommend the vaccines.

People fool themselves into thinking they are in a better position to make decisions than experts - the issues here are complex and require specialized training to assess.

Now having said that, I politely suggest that when you look at the states where are things the worst now?

Answer: in the states with the lowest vaccine numbers.

I think I replied in reference to having a balanced view.

For example, if you have been vaccinated, what percentage will be a breakthrough case?
Of the breakthrough cases, how many are contagious?
Out of those breakthrough cases, how many will die?
Out of those that die, what were their personal stats? Age, health, etc.

JLB mentioned the dangers listed from the CDC site. What are those percentages?

I am of the opinion that I’f we want to talk about risk, then a few of the things I’ve mentioned need to in those discussions.

For me, getting the vaccine was worth the risk stated by the CDC. I also looked into MRNA and was satisfied with what I found. For me, I think the Beni fits of receiving the vaccine outweigh the risks.

However, some people will bring other factors into their reasoning and because it becomes a mater of trust, the risk is too great for them.

I used the black community as an example because it’s without question indisputable. The US government really did them wrong years ago and that damage has not been repaired. As a result, Detroit City is only 40% vaccinated and it’s because they are rightfully fearful.

Using the black community as an example for low vaccination rates, it’s not a matter of science, but trust. In other words, they fear the government more than they fear the virus.

Anytime fear becomes part of the equation, you have to deal with compassion and understanding. If you tell them they are wrong and fight them on the issue, it will only drive their original fear deeper into their psych. Instead, you have to listen, understand and address their concerns with compassion.

 

[jaybo]

Actually, statistically it is more accurate to say "believing somehow that you will be hospitalized and/or survive." First, according to the CDC, it is estimated that approximately 36.6% or just over 1/3 of the US population has been infected during February 2020 - May 2021. Of those infected, about 5% (6.2M out of 120.2M infections) required hospitalization and about .006% (767K of the 120.2M) died. This means that if I get infected (about 1 in 3 chance) there's about a 95% chance I will not require hospitalization and a 99.994% chance that I would survive.

The CDC reported...

120.2 Million​

Estimated Total Infections

101.8 Million​

Estimated Symptomatic Illnesses

6.2 Million​

Estimated Hospitalizations

767,000​

Estimated Total Deaths

New infections are soaring in states with low vaccination rates, including those where the governors haven't truthfully addressed the problem (Texas and Florida). Also, Arkansas.

• The rise in cases in Texas has led hospitals to nearly reach full capacity.
• The new wave in COVID-19 cases amid the spread of the Delta variant resulted in as little as six empty ICU beds in the city of Austin.
• Doctors working in the Texas capital told Insider about their experience working in hospitals overwhelmed with patients.

Florida has become the new epicenter of the country's coronavirus pandemic as the highly contagious delta variant triggers a surge in cases nationwide.

COVID-19 hospitalizations in Arkansas rose by 103 patients to 1,376 on Monday, the state's largest daily increase since the start of the pandemic.

The number of COVID-19 patients in intensive care units also went up by 26 to 509, leaving just eight ICU beds available in the entire state for patients with life-threatening ailments.

 

[JLB]

Receiving the COVID-19 vaccine should be required, just as seatbelts are required. It's simply a matter of public health and safety.

Do you really think that the CDC and millions of doctors and other health care providers should be suspect? And that people who oppose them shouldn't be suspect?

I believe that the COVID vaccine can be harmful or fatal to some people.

Additionally, the different vaccines that are produced by the different phamaceutical companies have different ingredients.


Which ones are safe and which ones are harmful for us?


I think that the "Stakeholders" can not be trusted. I certainly dont trust people who blindly want me and my family to be injected with something that may or may not be safe.


JLB

 

[jaybo]

I believe that the COVID vaccine can be harmful or fatal to some people.

Additionally, the different vaccines that are produced by the different phamaceutical companies have different ingredients.


Which ones are safe and which ones are harmful for us?


I think that the "Stakeholders" can not be trusted. I certainly dont trust people who blindly want me and my family to be injected with something that may or may not be safe.


JLB

Being vaccinated is far, far safer than being unvaccinated. There have been 628,786 COVID-19 deaths in the US so far with 53,966 deaths in Texas. Since COVID-19 vaccination began, nearly all Texas COVID-19 deaths are among people not fully vaccinated. (source: Texas Department of Health Services)

The rolling two-week daily average of new Covid-19 cases in Texas has increased by 165% to 8,533, according to Johns Hopkins University research data.

Dozens of Texas hospitals have run out of intensive care unit beds as COVID-19 surges faster than any other time during the pandemic, propelled by the new delta variant.

Even though I don't know you personally I am begging you to get vaccinated. Why do you want to risk dying from this virus? Do you think that Jesus wants you to suffer and die?

 

[WIP]

To the best of my memory I have received vaccinations against measles, mumps, rubella, smallpox, polio, tetanus, shingles, pneumonia, COVID-19, and the flu (annually). And there may be others as well. I'm 77 and intend to live as long as I can -- with the help of modern medicine and the will of God.

I suspect all of those vaccines were at the very least fully tested and approved by the FDA when they were administered to you.

 

[stovebolts]

I suspect all of those vaccines were at the very least fully tested and approved by the FDA when they were administered to you.

Just out of curiosity, it is suspected that the FDA will approve the Pfizer vaccine within the next few weeks. Will full FDA approval be enough for you to consider receiving the Pfizer vaccine?

 

[jaybo]

I suspect all of those vaccines were at the very least fully tested and approved by the FDA when they were administered to you.

Yes; that also includes the COVID-19 vaccines. I had two vaccinations of the FDA-approved Moderna vaccine. I will also get a booster if that's recommended and available. I intend to live as long as the Lord allows me to; how about you?

 

[WIP]

Just out of curiosity, it is suspected that the FDA will approve the Pfizer vaccine within the next few weeks. Will full FDA approval be enough for you to consider receiving the Pfizer vaccine?

Perhaps. But then, I resisted the flu vaccine until just three years ago.

 

[WIP]

Yes; that also includes the COVID-19 vaccines. I had two vaccinations of the FDA-approved Moderna vaccine. I will also get a booster if that's recommended and available. I intend to live as long as the Lord allows me to; how about you?

I do not know of any Covid-19 vaccines that have full approval of the FDA. If you can show evidence to the contrary, please do.

To my knowledge the current vaccines are only being administered under the authority of Emergency Use Authorization. In a nutshell this means that "when the Secretary of Health and Human Services declares that an emergency use authorization is appropriate, FDA may authorize unapproved medical products or unapproved uses of approved medical products to be used in an emergency to diagnose, treat, or prevent serious or life-threatening diseases or conditions caused by CBRN threat agents when certain criteria are met, including there are no adequate, approved, and available alternatives." (source: US Food & Drug Administration website. Bold type is my highlighting.)

 

[stovebolts]

I believe that the COVID vaccine can be harmful or fatal to some people.

Yes, this is true and the CDC has a clear and concise disclosure on this which you have previously posted.

Additionally, the different vaccines that are produced by the different phamaceutical companies have different ingredients.

The CDC also disclosed this information on their site. Is there any issue you take with this? If so, what are your concerns?

Which ones are safe and which ones are harmful for us?

All vaccines carry risk, which the CDC has outlined. The human body is a marvelous thing. For some, the vaccine appears to be very safe. For others it’s not. This is why the CDC gives guidelines on who should and should not receive it. So when you ask which ones are safe, it might be better asked as who can the vaccine be harmful to causing the vaccine to be unsafe for them.

Of course you could always ask what the long term effects of the vaccines are which would be an educated guess. However, knowing what we know, that best guess is that long term, it is safe. Time will need to prove this out.

I think that the "Stakeholders" can not be trusted. I certainly dont trust people who blindly want me and my family to be injected with something that may or may not be safe.

Trust is a pretty big obstacle and Pfizer was found guilty for being partially responsible for the opioid crises, and I’m sure there are more.

Not everyone shares your fear though, which is why I support ones personal choice to get vaccinated or not and why I believe it’s ok if somebody gets vaccinated, and at the same time hope for the best in those who decide not to get vaccinated.

 

[jasonc]

I do not know of any Covid-19 vaccines that have full approval of the FDA. If you can show evidence to the contrary, please do. To my knowledge the current vaccines are only being administered under the authority of Emergency Use Authorization. In a nutshell this means that "when the Secretary of Health and Human Services declares that an emergency use authorization is appropriate, FDA may authorize unapproved medical products or unapproved uses of approved medical products to be used in an emergency to diagnose, treat, or prevent serious or life-threatening diseases or conditions caused by CBRN threat agents when certain criteria are met, including there are no adequate, approved, and available alternatives." (source: US Food & Drug Administration website. Bold type is my highlighting.)

cbrn

chemical ,biological ,radiological ,nuclear

also once called NBC(nuclear biological chemical )

the epi pin is close to the military's anti nerve agent

 

[stovebolts]

Perhaps. But then, I resisted the flu vaccine until just three years ago.

Ha, I will never get another flu shot…. Because of how my body responded to the flu vaccine, it was hard making the decision to get a Covid shot. The deciding actor for me in this area was mRNA technology which is unlike traditional vaccines. And yes, this is a pain point for those who don’t trust new technology being tested on such a broad level of our population.

 

[WIP]

Ha, I will never get another flu shot…. Because of how my body responded to the flu vaccine, it was hard making the decision to get a Covid shot. The deciding actor for me in this area was mRNA technology which is unlike traditional vaccines. And yes, this is a pain point for those who don’t trust new technology being tested on such a broad level of our population.

It is the new technology that is probably my greatest sticking point. It's only been in use for about 7 or 8 months in real application and I'm not comfortable subjecting my body to something that hasn't been time tested yet. That's why I say I admire those who have been willing to do it for they are the experimental group in this study. It's not fear for me but it is a lack of trust at this time.