[_ Old Earth _] Creation and Evolution Presentation

[Barbarian]

They are all doctrines of this world a world that killed Jesus Christ, a world that hates our savior.

There is nothing whatever in science that "hates our Savior." I've spent a lifetime learning about His creation, and there's nothing in the least evil about any of it. It's just the way He chose to do it. Let God be God.

We as Christians should be doing all we can to expose these ungodly doctrines, doctrines that appose the things of God, that further separate man from his creator..

I'm trying. But there's a lot of misconceptions out there. I do what I can.

 

[Sparkey]

There is nothing whatever in science that "hates our Savior."

Only in the sense that is so often misunderstood. Take for instance how we are told to hate our wife. Who said that? Let's look:

Luke 14:26 (and thereabouts) ---> "If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters--yes, even their own life--such a …"

Certainly, Barbarian, you've met those who have a love greater for Science than they do for God. Each person has an influence and it does us no benefit to discount those influences in any irrational manner. That would be akin to putting on blinders, would it not?

Oh, and here's one for the balance for the Love statement, 1Peter 1:22 (one of many): "Since you have in obedience to the truth purified your souls for a sincere love of the brethren, fervently love one another from the heart,"

 

[Barbarian]

Certainly, Barbarian, you've met those who have a love greater for Science than they do for God.

And those who have a greater love for creationism than they do for God. But none like that here, I think.

Each person has an influence and it does us no benefit to discount those influences in any irrational manner.

My first course in evolution was taught by a devout Episcopalian, who was a member of the vestry board, who lived his life as an imitation of Christ. So you might have something there. I had living proof that Christian belief was not in conflict with science.

That would be akin to putting on blinders, would it not?

I believe it would.

Oh, and here's one for the balance for the Love statement, 1Peter 1:22 (one of many): "Since you have in obedience to the truth purified your souls for a sincere love of the brethren, fervently love one another from the heart,"

As He said, Love God, love your neighbor. That is the heart of the law.

 

[Sparkey]

But none like that here, I think.

Thank you, and I also reflect that thought back to you. We are to love the brethren because that is how we show love for God. Differing beliefs don't matter between family members joined at the same table.

 

[Barbarian]

Some years ago they took a living snail and carbon tested it the resulting test said the snail was 5000 years old, it was something like this:

Living snails were carbon-14 dated at 2,300 and 27,000 years old, showing that the dating method is invalid..

No, it just shows what scientists already knew. Mollusks get most of their carbon from rocks, not from the atmosphere. So they are composed mostly of ancient carbon, and therefore will give extreme ages when checked by carbon-14. Didn't the guys who tested them know this? Of course they did. But they correctly guessed that you didn't know it.

That, unfortunately, is how many of the professional creationists operate.

 

[turnorburn]

How does Jesus fit into this theory?

tob

 

[Barbarian]

How does Jesus fit into this theory?

A scientific theory is too small to fit God into it. You might as well as how God fits into plumbing. Fortunately, plumbing and science fit nicely into God's creation.

Science can't comment on God. But scientists can.

This is not a puzzle for anyone who understands science.

 

[Doulos Iesou]

A scientific theory is too small to fit God into it. You might as well as how God fits into plumbing. Fortunately, plumbing and science fit nicely into God's creation.

Science can't comment on God. But scientists can.

This is not a puzzle for anyone who understands science.

Absolutely brilliant post, I am going to steal this.

 

[turnorburn]

@Doulos lesou I've the perfect place where you can post it..

http://forums.carm.org/vbb/forumdis...c-Humanism&s=e18d3080537156899423d038510c3ca2

tob

 

[Doulos Iesou]

@Doulos lesou I've the perfect place where you can post it..

http://forums.carm.org/vbb/forumdis...c-Humanism&s=e18d3080537156899423d038510c3ca2

tob

Excuse me? His post.. which was about God... which I found brilliant... means I am an Atheist?

 

[turnorburn]

Darwin knew fundamentally his theory was an attack against Christianity that's what all the brew hah hah was about during the Scopes trial. I've always thought that the theory of evolution was/is a doctrine of D _ _ _ _ S. Maybe i was living among the atheists too long over yonder but that answer to my question "how does Jesus fit into his theory" was something i would have heard coming from one of them. The comment "This is not a puzzle for somebody that understands science" is an affront to those that don't.. The world doesn't belong to intellectuals it belongs to the meek, at least according to Gods word it does..

tob

 

[Doulos Iesou]

Darwin knew fundamentally his theory was an attack against Christianity that's what all the brew hah hah was about during the Scopes trial. I've always thought that the theory of evolution was/is a doctrine of D _ _ _ _ S. Maybe i was living among the atheists too long over yonder but that answer to my question "how does Jesus fit into his theory" was something i would have heard coming from one of them. The comment "This is not a puzzle for somebody that understands science" is an affront to those that don't.. The world doesn't belong to intellectuals it belongs to the meek, at least according to Gods word it does..

tob

Does being humble and meek make one automatically a good scientist? Or does it require a great deal of studying and practice?

 

[Milk-Drops]

Darwin knew fundamentally his theory was an attack against Christianity that's what all the brew hah hah was about during the Scopes trial.

No on both counts. Considering that Darwin even mentions creation at the end of The Origin of Species.

I've always thought that the theory of evolution was/is a doctrine of D _ _ _ _ S.

No, Theory of Evolution is not doctrine, considering that the Origin of species is literally just a long paper that discusses obersvation, means of testing, collections of citations, etc. There is no story or narrative to make it doctrine.

Maybe i was living among the atheists too long over yonder but that answer to my question "how does Jesus fit into his theory" was something i would have heard coming from one of them. The comment "This is not a puzzle for somebody that understands science" is an affront to those that don't.. The world doesn't belong to intellectuals it belongs to the meek, at least according to Gods word it does..

tob

I don't care about your Straw men.

 

[turnorburn]

Meatball says

i don't care about your straw men

I do care about those people, how do you feel about Jesus Christ?

tob

 

[Milk-Drops]

Meatball says

I do care about those people

You care about charactures of people that are created specifically to be defeated by misrepresentation?

 

[Barbarian]

Darwin knew fundamentally his theory was an attack against Christianity

Seems unlikely, since the last sentence of The Origin of Species attributes the origin of life to God:
There is grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed by the Creator into a few forms or into one; and that, whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being evolved.
Charles Darwin, The Origin of Species, 1878

that's what all the brew hah hah was about during the Scopes trial.

The defense showed how numerous religious leaders showed that evolution was consistent with God's creation. Indeed, the prosecution eventually admitted that the Biblical account was consistent with long ages.

I've always thought that the theory of evolution was/is a doctrine of D _ _ _ _ S. Maybe i was living among the atheists too long over yonder but that answer to my question "how does Jesus fit into his theory" was something i would have heard coming from one of them. The comment "This is not a puzzle for somebody that understands science" is an affront to those that don't..

That's curable. Learn about science and see why it doesn't, in any way, exclude God from creation.

The world doesn't belong to intellectuals it belongs to the meek, at least according to Gods word it does..

Know the truth, and the truth will set you free. A Christian should never be afraid of the truth.

Nor, by the way, are scientists necessarily intellectuals. Many of us are just having fun playing with stuff and learning how it works.

 

[Sparkey]

No, Theory of Evolution is not doctrine ... There is no story or narrative to make it doctrine.

I'm curious. Where's that definition coming up from?

~Sparrow

 

[Milk-Drops]

I'm curious. Where's that definition coming up from?

~Sparrow

I'm pointing out that the theory of Evolution is a theory within the sciences. Unlike religious Doctrine, there is no demand that any specific rituals are reasons be used. Unless Turn wants to argue syllogisms of the entire basis of Natural science.

 

[turnorburn]

When men talk about believing in God that's nothing new, how does Jesus Christ fit into this doctrine? Its a man made doctrine stating that we evolved from a lower life form, Gods word states he spoke us into existence, which is it?

tob

 

[Barbarian]

A scientific theory is an idea that has been tested and found to be supported by evidence. It is different than doctrine, because it is not considered to be the final truth, but only an approximation of the truth, subject to further evidence. Depending on evidence, not faith, it is limited to the physically observable universe, and can make no statements at all about the supernatural, neither supporting nor denying anything beyond nature. Pretty much like plumbing. You might as well ask how Jesus Christ fits into plumbing. He can't. It's too weak a system to include the supernatural.

Evolution merely notes that we evolved from other ("lower" is not part of evolutionary theory) organisms. And the Bible notes that living things were brought forth from the earth, but does not say how that happened, only that nature produced them, according to His will.

Again, perfectly compatible with what science has found.