[_ Old Earth _] Creationist vs evolutionist, whos the fool?

[Guest]

God has nothing to do with intelligence. It has to EVOLVE!

Also, you don't believe that men have been to the moon?

CONSPIRACY THEORIST WARNING! :roll:

:P I didn't say that man hasn't gone to the moon,I am saying that
you were not there,and pictures of something in space doesn't prove it
was the moon,ect..... You seem to be sooooooo easy to fool by this world
and you have no desire for truth.
If you desire truth,you find it! It works for me,so I know it works for
others too. You don't love the truth.
If the apes communicate so well,then why not get them a cell phone so
they may stay in touch with you? Also,why can't Ape's breed with humans?
Sounds like a conspiracy on your end not mine,amen.
Have you seen an ape turn into a human?
Have you ever seen any animal in the process of it?

 

[Guest]

Show you proof that the bible is a myth? I cannot. But you cannot show me proof that the bible isn't a myth. That is the beauty of religion--but don't challenge my beliefs if your beliefs are not any more valid.

:wink: You are having contact with me right now.
My life is proof of God,and the fact that he let me know
that he is real is excellent proof,amen. My heart cannot accept
what my mind rejects.I have evidence,and you have no evidence.
The fact that I have evidence means others can and do too.
More beliefs are more valid because it has witnesses past,present and
future. It is ancient and it is present. Your is ancient,yet still has no evidence in the present. My belief has eye witness accounts,yours does
not.Yours still belongs to occults and pagans,and it cannot fill the gaps
that it has.The Pope accepts your evolution religious view,and so do many
other religious people and religions. I don't have a religion,you do.
I have a relationship with a holy God who gave us language and words,not
an ape who can barely type a letter.

 

[keebs]

Just because you are alive doesn't prove God exists. Your naive concept of proof won't work.

I don't have a religion,you do.

Evolution is considered a scientific theory, not a religion. And, religion is definied as belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe. So, by definition, Christianity is a religion.

 

[Asimov]

yes but has he developed emotions, does he no when his fellow friends are in danger? Some apes lack in this area very much so.

apes lackin emotional responses??

you've never seen an ape angry? sad? happy? depressed? afraid?

All of these emotions are exhibited by mammals, including apes.

 

[goliwog man]

Sometimes apes dont sense danger or trouble from ones near them. E.g A mother ape tried to cross the river with her baby. She held him low and didnt even realise he was drowning as she crossed. Sometimes these emotions dont function properly

 

[Asimov]

Sometimes apes dont sense danger or trouble from ones near them. E.g A mother ape tried to cross the river with her baby. She held him low and didnt even realise he was drowning as she crossed. Sometimes these emotions dont function properly

That's not a lack of emotion. That's not being aware of what's happening.

Humans do this all the time.

 

[Guest]

Just because you are alive doesn't prove God exists. Your naive concept of proof won't work.

I don't have a religion,you do.

Evolution is considered a scientific theory, not a religion. And, religion is definied as belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe. So, by definition, Christianity is a religion.

8-) You are deceived! Evolution is clearly not science in any fashion,
shape or form. It is an ancient view by religious pagans.
Christianity is actually defined as those who accept the Gospel of Jesus
Christ and The Holy Bible,and God without any added extras tagged on.
It is the only faith that is not from Babylon.

 

[Guest]

[quote="goliwog man":8fbb5]Sometimes apes dont sense danger or trouble from ones near them. E.g A mother ape tried to cross the river with her baby. She held him low and didnt even realise he was drowning as she crossed. Sometimes these emotions dont function properly

That's not a lack of emotion. That's not being aware of what's happening.

Humans do this all the time.[/quote:8fbb5]

Apes have been apes for thousands of years and show no signs
of ever being anything else other than apes. Apes are animals,but -
people are not. People are human beings.
People are not born already walking either.

 

[cubedbee]

Just because you are alive doesn't prove God exists. Your naive concept of proof won't work.

I don't have a religion,you do.

Evolution is considered a scientific theory, not a religion. And, religion is definied as belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe. So, by definition, Christianity is a religion.

8-) You are deceived! Evolution is clearly not science in any fashion,
shape or form. It is an ancient view by religious pagans.
Christianity is actually defined as those who accept the Gospel of Jesus
Christ and The Holy Bible,and God without any added extras tagged on.
It is the only faith that is not from Babylon.

Blue, bearing false witness is a sin, and you constantly do it. You need to stop making untrue claims. Evolution is accepted as science by 99% of the world. It was not held by pagans. And not all religions other than Christianity come from Babylon. You make these false claims over and over again, but you can not substantiate them. Defend your faith and your beliefs all you want--but quit spreading falsehoods.

 

[Guest]

[/b]

Blue, bearing false witness is a sin, and you constantly do it. You need to stop making untrue claims. Evolution is accepted as science by 99% of the world. It was not held by pagans. And not all religions other than Christianity come from Babylon. You make these false claims over and over again, but you can not substantiate them. Defend your faith and your beliefs all you want--but quit spreading falsehoods.[/quote]

8-) You profusely bear false witness and give false testimony,and you
think you can judge? Prove that evolution is accepted by science in your
own words not links. I believe the researchers who don't back slide or
sit on both sides of the fence,amen.
I defend my faith just right,and I am very pleased with it,amen.
I have evidence in my life,and thats why I cannot compremise.
You just keep spinning all the yarns you wish,it won't make one word
you say any truer than the next.

 

[cubedbee]

think you can judge? Prove that evolution is accepted by science in your
own words not links.

Every biology book I have ever seen teaches evolution. Evolutionary books are stocked in the science section of every bookstore. Every public school in America teaches evolution as science. Every private university giving out a Bachelor of Science teaches evolution. Here is a statistic which says 95% of scientists accept evolution. Science magazine has 874 articles with the word evolution in the title. blue, this isn't a debatable fact. You can argue that the conclusions of science is wrong, but you need to get in touch with reality and realize that evolution is science.

 

[Guest]

think you can judge? Prove that evolution is accepted by science in your
own words not links.

Every biology book I have ever seen teaches evolution. Evolutionary books are stocked in the science section of every bookstore. Every public school in America teaches evolution as science. Every private university giving out a Bachelor of Science teaches evolution. Here is a statistic which says 95% of scientists accept evolution. Science magazine has 874 articles with the word evolution in the title. blue, this isn't a debatable fact. You can argue that the conclusions of science is wrong, but you need to get in touch with reality and realize that evolution is science.

:wink: You almost sound like you believe all those trumped up lies,
but facts are still facts and liberal text books are not the gospel,amen.
No,not all schools teach evolution and they don't all teach it as a fact.
That is wrong for those that do since there is no evidence or support
for it,and it is not science at all,it is science fiction and thats about as
close to science as it will ever get amen.
You need to wake up and realize that you've been had before it's too
late!
Read Hebrews 11:3
Ecc.5:1
http://www.icr.org/pubs/imp/imp-234.htm
http://www.creationists.org/evolutionisreligion.html

 

[cubedbee]

think you can judge? Prove that evolution is accepted by science in your
own words not links.

Every biology book I have ever seen teaches evolution. Evolutionary books are stocked in the science section of every bookstore. Every public school in America teaches evolution as science. Every private university giving out a Bachelor of Science teaches evolution. Here is a statistic which says 95% of scientists accept evolution. Science magazine has 874 articles with the word evolution in the title. blue, this isn't a debatable fact. You can argue that the conclusions of science is wrong, but you need to get in touch with reality and realize that evolution is science.

:wink: You almost sound like you believe all those trumped up lies,
but facts are still facts and liberal text books are not the gospel,amen.
No,not all schools teach evolution and they don't all teach it as a fact.
That is wrong for those that do since there is no evidence or support
for it,and it is not science at all,it is science fiction and thats about as
close to science as it will ever get amen.
You need to wake up and realize that you've been had before it's too
late!
Read Hebrews 11:3
Ecc.5:1
http://www.icr.org/pubs/imp/imp-234.htm
http://www.creationists.org/evolutionisreligion.html

You're an arrogant fool who refuses to listen to facts. I refuse to speak with you any longer.

 

[Blue-Lightning]

I don't think its fair to call Blue an arrogant fool, just like I don't appreciate the way Blue is handling herself on this forum. I think everyone needs to step back and realize the varying levels of proficiency on this board.

BL

 

[Asimov]

I don't think its fair to call Blue an arrogant fool, just like I don't appreciate the way Blue is handling herself on this forum. I think everyone needs to step back and realize the varying levels of proficiency on this board.

BL

Exactly, which is why I apologized, and basically ignore blue on most of her posts.

 

[rmills]

I don't think its fair to call Blue an arrogant fool, just like I don't appreciate the way Blue is handling herself on this forum. I think everyone needs to step back and realize the varying levels of proficiency on this board.

BL

What is meant by "varying levels of proficiency"?
Just curious.

 

[rmills]

Every biology book I have ever seen teaches evolution. Evolutionary books are stocked in the science section of every bookstore. Every public school in America teaches evolution as science. Every private university giving out a Bachelor of Science teaches evolution. Here is a statistic which says 95% of scientists accept evolution. Science magazine has 874 articles with the word evolution in the title. blue, this isn't a debatable fact. You can argue that the conclusions of science is wrong, but you need to get in touch with reality and realize that evolution is science.

40% of people believe "Man has developed over millions of years from less advanced forms of life, but God guided this process, including man's creation." according to the posted poll. Poll date is 1991 BTW. 95% of who?

Once again, the biology books stacked everywhere that promote evolution may teach science but the very foundations of this evolution belief are corrupt when I can open any of these “science books†and read countless debunked and antiquated arguments from liars, fabricators of theory and statements of “facts†based on such fabrications. It infuriates me that I can walk into any school and pull a “science†book off the teacher’s desk that has a drawing of 8 identical fetuses that eventually turn into 8 different animals, including the human. That fabrication alone has changed the course of people’s lives. Lee Strobel says in his book, “The Case for a Creatorâ€Â, that this picture was one of three significant factors in his road to head first Atheism. He was not told in school that this picture was refuted almost 100 years earlier by real scientists who put that “science†to the test. Entire drawings of the “missing link†based on a knee cap? A tooth? A jaw bone? How many of those “science books†state those facts? How many folks know that charging a flask full of stuff with electricity does not in even small ways represent the spontaneous generation of life in a primordial atmosphere? What of the thousands of variables that are meticulously balanced to make life sustainable in our atmosphere, our gravity, our distance from the sun, our distance from the moon, our degree of rotational axis, our DNA complexity, our speech, our vast difference in DNA between apes and humans, our vast similarities in DNA with mice, our inability to find the Whale’s ancestors, our inability to prove that mutations have ever been beneficial to any species, and on and on…

 

[goliwog man]

well said rmills well said :D I like your stile

 

[rmills]

... and I might just as well go ahead and add my favorite. How come we have not seen that pinnacle of Evolution known as the fruit fly turn into a bat or a even a grasshopper? Lord knows it should have happened there first! Scientists have had ample opportunity to provide a fruit fly with a tail, a sonar guidance system, a language, hot pink hair, anything!!! They have however managed to provide a fly that can withstand colder temperatures. So I guess that means macro evolution always worked?

Good old Drosophila melanogaster has not turned one stone of evolution since the 1913 pioneering studies of Sturtevant, but for some funny reason, there have been more books written on the poor fly than Carter has pills!

John Easton, University of Chicago Medical Center

In what has been described as the "perfect experiment," evolutionary biologists at the University of Chicago replaced a single gene in fruit flies and discovered a mechanism by which two different "races" begin to become different species, with one group adapted to life in the tropics and the other suited to cooler climates. The tropical group was more tolerant of starvation but less tolerant of cold. The temperate group was less able to resist starvation but better adapted to cool weather.

Ahh, that’s how we solve the problem! Eureka! If we can’t observe the fly taking on a new identity, maybe we will just genetically engineer one! This of course far passes proving evolution, rather it goes straight to grasping for straws! This is scientific lunacy! If we cannot prove that all fetuses look the same when they are in early development stages, we will just make that little unimportant fact up. If we cannot prove that flies evolve into whatever, we will genetically engineer one! But wait! There’s even more! Yippie! Look!

The altered gene also changed the flies' pheromones, chemical signals that influence mating behavior. As a result, the researchers show in the Dec. 5 issue of Science, the two groups of flies are not only fit for different environments but may also be on their way to sexual isolation, a crucial divide in the emergence of a new species.
"This study directly connects genetics with evolution," said Chung-I Wu, Ph.D., professor and chairman of ecology and evolution at the University of Chicago and director of the study. "For the first time, we were able to demonstrate the vast importance in an evolutionary context of a small genetic change that has already occurred in nature."
"We had the luxury," added co-author Tony Greenberg, Ph.D., a postdoctoral student in Wu's laboratory, "of watching the essential event in Darwinian evolution, the first step in the origin of a new species. We were quite impressed, that this simple alteration played such a dramatic role, both adapting flies to a new environment and changing their sex appeal. Once two groups become sexually isolated, there's no turning back."

WOW!!! I am just totally convinced now! Chung-I Wu has just effectively changed my life! This is an insult to my intelligence! An outright joke pointed at the Discovery Channel watching impressionable minds of the world so that “science†can settle this issue once and for all. I’m sure that it will be in text books really soon? Oh, it already is! But for some reason, they cant get rid of the pictures of Darwin’s only drawing in his book, you know, the one with the big family tree of where we all came from?

 

[rmills]

National Science Education Standards:
Science as Inquiry:
All students should develop an understanding of

-Abilities necessary to do scientific inquiry
-Understanding about scientific inquiry

_.1.6 AP Biology Research Benchmark:

Upon completion of AP Biology all students will demonstrate the abilities necessary to do scientific inquiry.

_.1.6.1 Examine and evaluate variations of the scientific process deemed to be most appropriate for a particular investigation, and differentiate and analyze alternative explanations.

_.1.6.2 Evaluate and rank multiple solutions to problems by employing team consensus decision-making.

_.1.6.3 Assess the appropriateness of various technologies as problem solving tools.

_.1.6.4 Compare and select the best outside sources of information to enhance and support research data.

_.1.6.5 Analyze, appraise, and communicate scientific understandings using oral language, written language, mathematics, symbols, tables, graphs, diagrams, visual aids, and technology.



_.1.7 Biology Research Benchmark:

Upon completion of Biology, all students will demonstrate the abilities

necessary to do scientific inquiry.

_.1.7.1 Design and conduct a scientific experiment

_.1.7.2 Examine the processes of scientific investigation as it relates to research, and analyze alternative explanations.

_.1.7.3 Solve problems by employing team decision-making to arrive at consensus.

_.1.7.4 Employ appropriate technology as a problem solving and utilize outside sources of information to enhance and support research data.

_.1.7.5 Analyze and communicate scientific understandings using oral language, written language, mathematics, symbols, tables, graphs, diagrams, visual aids, and technology.

Standard 3: All students will develop an understanding of the cell, molecular basis of heredity, biological evolution, interdependence of organisms, matter, energy, and organization in living systems, and the behavior of organisms.

Benchmark 3: Students will understand the major concepts of the theory of biological evolution.

Indicator: The students will understand:

That the theory of evolution is both the history of descent, with modification of different lineages of organisms from common ancestors, and the ongoing adaptation of organisms to environmental challenges and changes.

That biologists use evolution theory to explain the earth's present day biodiversity-the number, variety and variability of organisms.

That biologists recognize that the primary mechanisms of evolution are natural selection and genetic drift.

The sources and value of variation.

That evolution is broad, unifying theoretical framework in biology.

BOE approved 3/8/04.

So I have a problem here with the statement: "That the theory of evolution is both the history of descent, with modification of different lineages of organisms from common ancestors, and the ongoing adaptation of organisms to environmental challenges and changes. "

Now keep in mind that this is the 2004 Standard Board Of Education approved statement.

That the theory of evolution is both the history of descent, with modification of different lineages of organisms from common ancestors...

...which has never been proven, and...

and the ongoing adaptation of organisms to environmental challenges and changes.

...which we have allready seen with the fruit fly as absolutly fact that proves evolution. (sarcastic) From our favorite on line biology text book...

evolution 1) The change in life over time by adaptation, variation, over-reproduction, and differential survival/reproduction, a process referred to by Charles Darwin and Alfred Wallace as natural selection. 2) Descent with modification.

DEVELOPMENT OF EVOLUTIONARY THEORY

Post-Aristotlean "scientists" were constrained by the prevailing thought patterns of the Middle Ages -- the inerrancy of the biblical book of Genesis and the special creation of the world in a literal six days of the 24-hour variety. Archbishop James Ussher of Ireland, in the mid 1600's, calculated the age of the earth based on the geneologies from Adam and Eve listed in the biblical book of Genesis, working backward from the crucificxion. According to Ussher's calculations, the earth was formed on October 22, 4004 B.C. These calculations were part of Ussher's History of the World, and the chronology he developed was taken as factual, even being printed in the front pages of bibles. Ussher's ideas were readily accepted, in part because they posed no threat to the social order of the times; comfortable ideas that would not upset the linked applecarts of church and state.

Geologists had for some time doubted the "truth" of a 5,000 year old earth. Leonardo da Vinci (painter of the Last Supper, and the Mona Lisa, architect and engineer) calculated the sedimentation rates in the Po River of Italy, and concluded it took 200,000 years to form some nearby rock deposits.

Debunked long time ago.

Galileo, convicted heretic for his contention that the earth was not the center of the Universe, studied fossils (evidence of past life) and concluded that they were real and not inanimate artifacts. James Hutton, regarded as the Father of modern Geology, developed (in 1795) the Theory of Uniformitarianism, the basis of modern geology and paleontology. According to Hutton's work, certain geological processes operated in the past in much the same fashion as they do today, with minor exceptions of rates, etc. Thus many geological structures and processes cannot be explained if the earth is only 5000 years old.

Absolute outright lie, any geological structure can be explained if the earth is only 5000 years old.

British geologist Charles Lyell refined Hutton's ideas during the 1800s to include slow change over long periods of time; his book Principles of Geology had profound effects on Charles Darwin and Alfred Wallace.

Comparison of the skeletons of a crossopterygian lobe-finned fish and an early amphibian.

Thats funny! I never saw the picture of that fish turned amphibian, let alone the genetic links! Wow, it must be true because its in the text book!

The fossil record allows us to trace the history of the modern-day horse Equus. The earliest fossils in this lineage is Hyracotherium , which was the size of a dog, with cusped low-crowned molars, four toes on each front foot, three on each hind foot--all adaptations for forest living. When forests were replaced by grasslands, the intermediates were selected for durable grinding teeth, speed, etc. with an increase in size and decrease in toes. Living organisms resemble most recent fossils in the line of descent; underlying similarities allow us to trace a line of descent over time.

Another funny thing! I never saw that in the "fossil record"! But it has to be true, it’s in the text book!

Of the tens of thousands of millions of fossils found, there seems to be one major missing fossil, the missing link! Try this with any species! Where are they? All the transitional creatures that were evolving over centuries and centuries for some weird conspiracy reason just don’t show up! Zillions of fossils say that a text book writer can put these drawn pictures in a book that teaches us the truth of evolution, but no actual fossils!

And we have not even begun to scratch the surface of the inadequacies behind the claims of all the “Biology Text Books†that teach evolution.