Deborah13
Member
That was true with my oldest as well. Now she makes sure all of her nieces and nephews give the Chronicles of Narnia as gifts.
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CS Lewis: Good Theologian or Inkling Witch?
- Thread starter Particular Baptist
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Deborah13
Member
Quote from the book, C.S.Lewis, Letters to Children....
2. Many people erroneously call the Narnia stories allegories. He describes what they actually are to one young girl. They are “Supposal Stories.”
“You are mistaken when you think that everything in the book ‘represents’ something in the world. Things do that in The Pilgrim’s Progress but I’m not writing in that way. I did not say to myself, ‘Let us represent Jesus as He really is in our world by a Lion in Narnia’: I said ‘Let us suppose that there were a land like Narnia and that the Son of God, as He became a man in our world, became a Lion there, and then imagine what would happen.’ If you think about it, you will see that it is quite a different thing.”
2. Many people erroneously call the Narnia stories allegories. He describes what they actually are to one young girl. They are “Supposal Stories.”
“You are mistaken when you think that everything in the book ‘represents’ something in the world. Things do that in The Pilgrim’s Progress but I’m not writing in that way. I did not say to myself, ‘Let us represent Jesus as He really is in our world by a Lion in Narnia’: I said ‘Let us suppose that there were a land like Narnia and that the Son of God, as He became a man in our world, became a Lion there, and then imagine what would happen.’ If you think about it, you will see that it is quite a different thing.”
Mike
Member
In my estimation, Lewis was a master at the craft of writing. He made complicated matters simple by making them simply put. He never tried to make himself sound more intelligent than the reader, but it was clear that he was extremely insightful and wise. So many writers inject their pride into their writing and do the opposite. They make simple things of faith more complicated than they need to be in order to make more of themselves.
I for one will be forever grateful that he took pen to paper and shared his thoughts with a world that makes no sense most of the time.
I for one will be forever grateful that he took pen to paper and shared his thoughts with a world that makes no sense most of the time.
smaller
Member
A LOT of truth came from that donkey's mouth. I wouldn't discount a word that donkey said...
C.S. Lewis is one of my favorite Christian writers. He is widely accepted in Christianity as that. He is not actually a theologian, and does not present himself as that. In the preface for Mere Christianity he wrote "There is no mystery about my position. I am a very ordinary layman of the Church of England, not especially 'high' nor especially 'low', nor especially anything else. He was however on the English faculty at Oxford. So he should and did know how to write, and rather well if you consider his accomplishments.
Now many people post on this site and I sometime take issue with something they say. Still it is a Christian forum and so assume they are indeed Christian. So I might question something written, but I would not accuse them of being a witch. And that is for someone unknown, who is not widely accepted in Christianity. So to imply that someone, who is consider in Christianity as a whole to be a great Christian writer, is in fact a witch is incredible. To do so is to put yourself outside of mainline Christianity.
Someone wrote that a good deal of proof would be needed. And personally, a three hour video may not be good enough. Who did the video? What are the issues? And using a name for Satan that cultist use is anything but proof. A writer would use the word most appropriate for the context. The Nazis used "Heil Hitler" but so did many people making fun of him.
Of course we do have an accuser in this world, and Paul wrote about taking all thoughts captive to Jesus Christ. We do indeed have thoughts come to us, but we need to use discernment of spirits. C S Lewis strongly supported Christianity and Jesus Christ. The Narnia books clearly have a lion that represent Christ and as a hero and helper in time of need. And they are also clearly fiction written to children. So while they are not good for serious theological discussions, I would be surprised to not find them in a well stocked independent own and operated Christian bookstore.
We all have our thoughts and opinions. As for me, when I see someone attacking well known and established Christian I tend to think they probably did not test the spirits. Of course if they really have something valid, that's fine. Fro example; if someone has pictures, testimonies, and verified writings that indeed show that CS Lewis was deeply involved in a wiccan instead of the Church of England as he claim, then I would be interested. But that is not apparent from his writings and it is certainly not apparent in this thread.
Christians are guaranteed persecutions and Satan is the accuser of the saints. We want to be sure we are not coming into agreement with him. "Mere Christianity" was possibly the most influential pro Christian book written last century. What purpose would Satan have for having someone under his control writing it? Satan would have reason to discredit the writer of it though. And Satan used scripture also.
Now many people post on this site and I sometime take issue with something they say. Still it is a Christian forum and so assume they are indeed Christian. So I might question something written, but I would not accuse them of being a witch. And that is for someone unknown, who is not widely accepted in Christianity. So to imply that someone, who is consider in Christianity as a whole to be a great Christian writer, is in fact a witch is incredible. To do so is to put yourself outside of mainline Christianity.
Someone wrote that a good deal of proof would be needed. And personally, a three hour video may not be good enough. Who did the video? What are the issues? And using a name for Satan that cultist use is anything but proof. A writer would use the word most appropriate for the context. The Nazis used "Heil Hitler" but so did many people making fun of him.
Of course we do have an accuser in this world, and Paul wrote about taking all thoughts captive to Jesus Christ. We do indeed have thoughts come to us, but we need to use discernment of spirits. C S Lewis strongly supported Christianity and Jesus Christ. The Narnia books clearly have a lion that represent Christ and as a hero and helper in time of need. And they are also clearly fiction written to children. So while they are not good for serious theological discussions, I would be surprised to not find them in a well stocked independent own and operated Christian bookstore.
We all have our thoughts and opinions. As for me, when I see someone attacking well known and established Christian I tend to think they probably did not test the spirits. Of course if they really have something valid, that's fine. Fro example; if someone has pictures, testimonies, and verified writings that indeed show that CS Lewis was deeply involved in a wiccan instead of the Church of England as he claim, then I would be interested. But that is not apparent from his writings and it is certainly not apparent in this thread.
Christians are guaranteed persecutions and Satan is the accuser of the saints. We want to be sure we are not coming into agreement with him. "Mere Christianity" was possibly the most influential pro Christian book written last century. What purpose would Satan have for having someone under his control writing it? Satan would have reason to discredit the writer of it though. And Satan used scripture also.
C.S. Lewis' fiction works do contain magic and pagan mythology. Some consider that a problem, others just see it as harmless fiction. Asking at what point to draw the line is a fair question. Not everyone will agree where the line is. ('Course for myself, by the standard I grew up on, the things I watch and read now would be considered a lot more "problematic" than anything C.S. Lewis wrote.)
For Lewis' theological beliefs, since he says he is of the Church of England, it might be good to see what doctrine the Church of England professes. That said, people can claim a denomination without agreeing with everything it teaches.
As it is, I believe everyone has some mix of true and error in their teaching. And I believe this is why we have the individual ability to discern for ourselves and compare teachings to God's word, rather than relying on the teaching of other human beings.
In looking up 1 John 4:1 (ESV), which tells us to test the spirits, verses 2 and 3 caught my eye:
"By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God."
Granted, I am not 100% sure this verse applies to the context of what we are speaking about here. Here is the word used in these verses, "spirit", in it's original Greek: http://biblehub.com/greek/4151.htm
If the context of the verse has to do with teaching, it seems that the way to know if the teaching is anti-Christ or not would have to do with it's position on the historical reality of Jesus.
For Lewis' theological beliefs, since he says he is of the Church of England, it might be good to see what doctrine the Church of England professes. That said, people can claim a denomination without agreeing with everything it teaches.
As it is, I believe everyone has some mix of true and error in their teaching. And I believe this is why we have the individual ability to discern for ourselves and compare teachings to God's word, rather than relying on the teaching of other human beings.
In looking up 1 John 4:1 (ESV), which tells us to test the spirits, verses 2 and 3 caught my eye:
"By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God."
Granted, I am not 100% sure this verse applies to the context of what we are speaking about here. Here is the word used in these verses, "spirit", in it's original Greek: http://biblehub.com/greek/4151.htm
My guess is that the context of this verse is "vital principle, mental disposition".
If the context of the verse has to do with teaching, it seems that the way to know if the teaching is anti-Christ or not would have to do with it's position on the historical reality of Jesus.
We pick up impression (thoughts) from spirits. Paul explained that he took all thoughts captive to Jesus Christ. So testing the spirits are important for us to do. In this tread we see that Particular Baptist had "A hunting thought" come to fruition on day. Was this thought from God? Did he test it and take it captive to Jesus Christ. It was after all, a "haunting thought".
According to the Scriptures we find the word of God in our heart and on our lips. Now I confess that I don't take all thoughts captive to Jesus Christ like Paul did. But I do find it beneficial to try to take some time to consider what thoughts are coming through me. So if I find myself considering a thought coming thru to be "haunting' I am going to doubt that is from God After all, I don't believe the Spirit of God to be a spirit that haunts you.
That would be my thinking, but still a person needs to take their thinking to Jesus Christ for some wisdom and understanding on it. So I believe that 1 Jn 4:1-3 does seem appropriate for this thread. The thread seem to come from "haunting" thoughts and seems to be a bit accusatory. And I believe we all need to test the spirits just like is written.
I, ah, that seems a little reaching to me, idk. I think there are more accurate ways to analyze the points brought up.
Evidence was brought up in the OP and other posts as to why they believe Lewis to be erroneous. (Though I don't take David Cloud very seriously on these kind of things, but he's not bad and he is the reason my mother raised me Christian.) It's just that not everyone thinks or agrees he should be shut out for believing things like theistic evolution or considering some books of the Bible fables with a point rather than actual historical accounts. I don't consider those salvational issues.
As for the accusation of witchery, I do say that is an assertion with no real proof. Inclusion of or similarity to more sinister things does not mean they're in cahoots. Or even that they're aware of the similarity, necessarily.
Evidence was brought up in the OP and other posts as to why they believe Lewis to be erroneous. (Though I don't take David Cloud very seriously on these kind of things, but he's not bad and he is the reason my mother raised me Christian.) It's just that not everyone thinks or agrees he should be shut out for believing things like theistic evolution or considering some books of the Bible fables with a point rather than actual historical accounts. I don't consider those salvational issues.
As for the accusation of witchery, I do say that is an assertion with no real proof. Inclusion of or similarity to more sinister things does not mean they're in cahoots. Or even that they're aware of the similarity, necessarily.
Jim Parker
Member
C.S. Lewis was not a theologian.
He used allegory in his FICTION.
It is written that "they are all taught of God". Fables or perhaps we should say 'parables' are an excellent tool for teaching. C. S. Lewis was a writer, along with being a professor of literature. He wrote many things, but is famous for writing parables or fables. He made points in his writings, but many were just stories.
God on the other hands has the ability as creator and Lord of lords, to control history. And it is apparent that God created stories in history as parables to us. They were true events, but more important to us, they are parables!!!!
So I don't have a big problem with anyone thinking the history in the Bible are simply parables, because God created that history to teach them! As He still teaches me also.
While I believe they still have some learning to do if they think those events were not actually true. That thinking shows a lack of understanding that God is the creator and Lord of lords to this day, and thus in control. Never-the-less, it is there knowing God and believing in Him that I try to encourage and not there actually understanding that the events in the Bible actually did happen.
So on that same line of thinking, I can't possibly have a problem with the writings of C.S Lewis when it is apparent there is a Christ theme behind them. The Lion obviously represents the Lord, and thus encourages kids to seek the Lord. And if there is something that connects to witchcraft, well the Bible has that also and we know the Bible is intended to hook us with Jesus Christ.
Ps 78:2 I will open my mouth in a parable...
Ps 78: 13 He divided the red sea... (so that historical fact is a parable to us)
Ps 78: 15 He split the rocks in the wilderness (then that too is a parable to us)
Ps 78: 24 He rained down manna (a parable to us)
They are also historical fact, because God can and did control history, but that to make a parable to us.
Ps 78: When He killed them, then they sought Him... ( there is the reason, they we might turn and seek Him)
So C. S. Lewis wrote parables (not history, because C.S. Lewis does not make history) that should cause people (kids) to think about our Lord. Who then caused C. S. Lewis to write those parables that lead people to the Lord? I think it had to be the same One who opens His mouth in a parable. C. S. Lewis must have been hearing from Him. Yet the Spirit of God is not the only spirit out there. We know there is also one that accuses the saints. We shouldn't listen to that spirit.
smaller
Member
Brilliant deduction. He was a fiction author, with christian influences in his writings, right or wrong. Were his writings postured as christian fact, they wouldn't be fiction. Christian influenced beyond any doubt, to me, doctrinaire filters not really applicable to the genre to start with.
Who doesn't shed a tear when any hero of good, dies? Does that have to be wrung out through a doctrinal sifter in order to feel sorrow? Nope.
Mike
Member
And non-fiction. His best work was non-fiction, IMO.
smaller
Member
Well, that does open a bit of a can of worms as far as claiming christian apologetic/polemic works non-fiction or rather claiming them under different categories.
Theology is technically a unique genre/classification isn't it, as is every subset there under?
Never extensively read Lewis other than Mere Christianity and The Screwtape Letters and various pieces of his other writings. I was an adult when saved, and considered the Chronicles of Narnia a children's fantasy book i.e. not for my age at the time. Not that I don't enjoy fantasy novels. I was more engaged by science fiction.
JohnDB
Member
Actually he is a theologian.
He wrote several other books outside of the Narnia Chronicles.
They are rather famous as well but usually not as famous as his set of stories for children.
Jim Parker
Member
Ah SO des ka!
"After Lewis returned to Oxford University, he received a First in Honour Moderations (Greek and Latin literature) in 1920, a First in Greats (Philosophy and Ancient History) in 1922, and a First in English in 1923. In 1924 he became a philosophy tutor at University College and, in 1925, was elected a Fellow and Tutor in English Literature at Magdalen College, where he served for 29 years until 1954. ... In 1954, Lewis accepted the newly founded chair of Mediaeval and Renaissance Literature at Magdalene College, Cambridge, where he finished his career." (Wikipedia)
So he was professionally an English professor.
He did not formally study Christian theology.
So, rather than an theologian, he was more properly described as an apologist. (Right, I'm splitting hairs.)
iakov the fool
His Space Trilogy is for adults.
daninthelionsden
Member
My favorite C.S. Lewis story is The Great Divorce. I think it would make an excellent movie. And no. I have no problem with him as a Christian writer. Actually, I think his work is about the only good thing to come out of the Church of England.