Daniel 9:27 and Daniel 12:11-12

[His_nee (Jeff)]

Where do you believe this "heavenly sanctuary" is that the man of sin goes to proclaim himself as God?
Do you believe this Temple is on earth in the city of Jerusalem or in the third heaven where God is seated and Jesus is seated at His right hand.
JLB

I don't know if Jerusalem will be such a place or not, but an antichrist / self proclaimed 'god' on earth has been decked out in purple for much longer than I have been alive, and since way before my parents or grand-parents(who were killed by 'it', in Lithuania), and their great great great grandparents lived. That may not be by some miracle "the man of sin" but whoever it turns out to be is certainly supported by him. This is clear(realizing nothing is gained or known unless Yhwh grants it from heaven) from a simple, sound Biblical reading(even in 'english'!) , but 'hidden' to almost all the world(ALL the world, political-religious-secular; ALL) in order for the great deception and falling away to occur.

 

[Sinthesis]

The blood sacrifices performed in the temple by Jewish priests were not the sacrifice and oblation He ended in the midst of the week, as in Dan 9:27. We know that those continued on nearly until the temple was destroyed, even though God rejected the atonement of Israel each Yom Kippur because the red ribbon never changed color after the crucifixion of Christ. There is more than one way to offer sacrifice and oblation.

 

[JLB]

Temple Altar Construction Begins on Day of Destruction
The Temple Institute began work on the sacrificial altar Thursday, Tisha B’Av, the day the Second Temple was destroyed almost 2,000 years ago.

http://signsofthelastdays.com/archi...ng-rebuilt-for-the-future-temple-in-jerusalem

On a day when Jews mourn the destruction of the Temple almost 2,000 years ago, the Temple Institute made a giant step towards the rebuilding of the Temple by beginning to rebuild the sacrificial altar. The sacrificial altar is the location in the Temple where the Jews once offered sacrifices to the Lord, but there have been no sacrifices made since 70 A.D. when the Roman army destroyed both Jerusalem and the Temple.

It is difficult to understate the significance of the rebuilding of the sacrificial altar. You see, the sacrificial altar was the center of Temple worship. It was located near the center of the Temple, and upon that altar the priests would offer the numerous sacrifices that are commanded in the Torah.

The Temple Institute has previously rebuilt many of the other required instruments and vessels for the Temple, but rebuilding the sacrificial altar represents another huge leap forward in their goal.

Of course the Temple Institute is not able to rebuild the sacrificial altar in its proper location on the Temple Mount, so they are building it off site and will transport it to the Temple when it is rebuilt in the future.

The rocks for the sacrificial altar were gathered from the area around the Dead Sea and they were individually wrapped in order to ensure that they are not touched by metal as the Torah requires.

For students of Bible prophecy, this development is very exciting because it represents another huge step towards the rebuilding of the Temple in Jerusalem as the Scriptures foretell.

In fact, the Bible tells us that one day the Antichrist will set himself up in God's Temple and proclaim himself to be God. Just read what it says in 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4.....

Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for (that day will not come) until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

But should the Temple Institute be doing this? Should anyone be trying to rebuild the Temple without direct instructions from the Lord?

We know that it WILL be rebuilt, but is it proper for them to be doing it right now? After all, the first two Temples were only built after the Lord gave direct instructions that they be built

- See more at: http://signsofthelastdays.com/archi...ture-temple-in-jerusalem#sthash.lSKkiNwU.dpuf


JLB

 

[for_his_glory]

Temple Altar Construction Begins on Day of Destruction
The Temple Institute began work on the sacrificial altar Thursday, Tisha B’Av, the day the Second Temple was destroyed almost 2,000 years ago.

http://signsofthelastdays.com/archi...ng-rebuilt-for-the-future-temple-in-jerusalem

On a day when Jews mourn the destruction of the Temple almost 2,000 years ago, the Temple Institute made a giant step towards the rebuilding of the Temple by beginning to rebuild the sacrificial altar. The sacrificial altar is the location in the Temple where the Jews once offered sacrifices to the Lord, but there have been no sacrifices made since 70 A.D. when the Roman army destroyed both Jerusalem and the Temple.

It is difficult to understate the significance of the rebuilding of the sacrificial altar. You see, the sacrificial altar was the center of Temple worship. It was located near the center of the Temple, and upon that altar the priests would offer the numerous sacrifices that are commanded in the Torah.

The Temple Institute has previously rebuilt many of the other required instruments and vessels for the Temple, but rebuilding the sacrificial altar represents another huge leap forward in their goal.

Of course the Temple Institute is not able to rebuild the sacrificial altar in its proper location on the Temple Mount, so they are building it off site and will transport it to the Temple when it is rebuilt in the future.

The rocks for the sacrificial altar were gathered from the area around the Dead Sea and they were individually wrapped in order to ensure that they are not touched by metal as the Torah requires.

For students of Bible prophecy, this development is very exciting because it represents another huge step towards the rebuilding of the Temple in Jerusalem as the Scriptures foretell.

In fact, the Bible tells us that one day the Antichrist will set himself up in God's Temple and proclaim himself to be God. Just read what it says in 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4.....

Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for (that day will not come) until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

But should the Temple Institute be doing this? Should anyone be trying to rebuild the Temple without direct instructions from the Lord?

We know that it WILL be rebuilt, but is it proper for them to be doing it right now? After all, the first two Temples were only built after the Lord gave direct instructions that they be built

- See more at: http://signsofthelastdays.com/archi...ture-temple-in-jerusalem#sthash.lSKkiNwU.dpuf


JLB

Are those of the Temple Institute those Jews who are still waiting for Messiah to come? If they do believe Jesus is the Messiah than they are making void that of his life, death and resurrection and have not Christ in them.

This temple may be built, but never on the original mount, which would be one error, and the other is that it is only going to be torn down as Jesus already said:
Mark 12:10 And have ye not read this scripture; The stone which the builders rejected is become the head of the corner:
Mark 13:2 And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

 

[JLB]

Are those of the Temple Institute those Jews who are still waiting for Messiah to come? If they do believe Jesus is the Messiah than they are making void that of his life, death and resurrection and have not Christ in them.

This temple may be built, but never on the original mount, which would be one error, and the other is that it is only going to be torn down as Jesus already said:
Mark 12:10 And have ye not read this scripture; The stone which the builders rejected is become the head of the corner:
Mark 13:2 And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

and after He taught that the Temple is destroyed Jesus said -

15 "Therefore when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand), Matthew 24:15

So we see a rebuilt Temple, just as Daniel teaches us.


JLB

 

[Sinthesis]

Clearly whoever reads doesn't necessarily understand that spoken of by Daniel.

 

[for_his_glory]

Another rebuilt temple is required only if you are a dispensationalist as they take what Daniel said in 9:27 and 12:11 to be a third Temple, but nowhere in these two verses does it speak of a third Temple.

Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Dan 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

The Book of Daniel was written after Solomon’s temple had been destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar in 586 B.C. (2 Kings 25:8–9; Dan. 1:1–2) and before the temple had been rebuilt by the returning exiles (Ezra 6:13–15). It was this post-exile rebuilt temple that was desecrated by Antiochus Epiphanes around 170 B.C. After a period of misuse and disuse, the temple was in need of repair. Herod the Great restored and enlarged this rebuilt second temple, a project that started around 20 B.C. and was completed just a few years before it was destroyed in A.D. 70. It was this same temple that Zacharias served in (Luke 1:9), that Jesus was taken to as an infant (2:27), that had been under construction forty-six years (John 2:20), that Jesus cleansed of the money changers (Matt. 21:12), that He predicted would be left desolate (Matt. 23:38; 24:2), and that was finally destroyed by Titus in A.D. 70.

Third-temple advocates find support for their position in Revelation 11:1–2. They begin by assuming that Revelation was written nearly three decades after the temple was destroyed. From this unproven assumption, they conclude that John must be measuring a rebuilt temple. The passage says nothing about a rebuilt temple. The words "shortly" and "near" (Rev. 1:1, 3) are used to describe the time when the events outlined in Revelation were to take place. These words are meaningless if the events have not taken place. The fact that John is told to "rise and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and those who worship in it" (11:1), is evidence that the temple was still standing when John received the revelation. How could John have measured a temple that did not exist in his day?

Matthew 24 Jesus is speaking about a literal Temple, since in the context of the passage he is standing and looking directly at the second Temple. The same was true of John. He was told to measure the literal Temple that still had worshipers in it. If the temple was no longer standing, then John was measuring a "spiritual temple."

Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand).
(read this without the punctuation and the words spoken of by Daniel the prophet and run all the words that Jesus spoke in this chapter. you will see the events as they take place are that of a literal word

When you therefore see the abomination of desolation stand in the holy place then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains.

Matthew 24:1-31 Jesus is speaking of the true tribulation, not some 7 year Great Tribulation that is nowhere found in scripture, of that time when He walked the earth up until the time of His second coming for His Bride. The final abomination of desolation will be that of a one man (beast) rule of power given to him by the dragon Satan, Rev 13:11-18, that will be that of a one world government, economic and religious power that everyone will be forced to bow down to just as King Nebuchadnezzar tried to force Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego in Daniel 3:13-30. This abomination of desolation takes place in the holy place of Christ temple, John 2:19-22. Eph 2:19-22; 1Peter 2:5, and just like Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego we need to stand in the faith of Christ to not bow down to this antichrist system as we need not fear that which has to take place before the day of the Lord, Rev 2:10; Matthew 10:28

 

[for_his_glory]

and after He taught that the Temple is destroyed Jesus said -

15 "Therefore when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand), Matthew 24:15

So we see a rebuilt Temple, just as Daniel teaches us.


JLB

That doesn't answer my question. Are they or are they not Jews who believe in Christ being the true Messiah. A simple yes or no would be suffice.

 

[DRS81]

I don't think the tribulation is seven years long.

What are your thoughts on Rev 12:6 and Rev 13:5.

I believe 1260 days and 42 months are both speaking of the first 3.5 years of the seven year trib.

 

[Dave Watchman]

What are your thoughts on Rev 12:6 and Rev 13:5.

I believe 1260 days and 42 months are both speaking of the first 3.5 years of the seven year trib.

I'm almost afraid to tell you because what I think will be different than what you read in 90% of prophecy books and I don't want to cause you confusion. The 1260 days of Rev 12:6 and the 42 months of Rev 13:5 are not the same things. The 42 months of Rev 13:5 is the same as the 1260 days from Dan. 12:7 (time times and half a time). The 1260 days of Rev 12:6 has to be translated into years because the Jubilee calendar is still in operation. The 1260 years of Rev 12:6 took place from 538 to 1798 when the beast received a mortal head wound at the end of it. Now for the real shocker. The tribulation is not seven years in duration. It's only 3 years, 8 months and 15 days from start to finish. 1335 days sounds a lot better than seven long years right? The only problem is, I'm scared that the 1335 day tribulation is soon to begin. I will show you why and what I have found but I just can't do it tonight.

 

[DRS81]

I'm almost afraid to tell you because what I think will be different than what you read in 90% of prophecy books and I don't want to cause you confusion. The 1260 days of Rev 12:6 and the 42 months of Rev 13:5 are not the same things. The 42 months of Rev 13:5 is the same as the 1260 days from Dan. 12:7 (time times and half a time). The 1260 days of Rev 12:6 has to be translated into years because the Jubilee calendar is still in operation. The 1260 years of Rev 12:6 took place from 538 to 1798 when the beast received a mortal head wound at the end of it. Now for the real shocker. The tribulation is not seven years in duration. It's only 3 years, 8 months and 15 days from start to finish. 1335 days sounds a lot better that seven long years right? The only problem is, I'm scared that the 1335 day tribulation is soon to begin. I will show you why and what I have found but I just can't do it tonight.

Yes, I am curious of where you're getting your information, being that you're in the 10% and the rest of the world is in the 90%.

 

[for_his_glory]

The Bible never talks about seven years of some Great Tribulation as from the beginning of Satan's fall in the spiritual realm until the day of the Lord we will always have tribulations and persecutions until the day of judgment when Jesus returns in the air to gather those who have endured all the persecutions for the witness of Christ and places them in safety until he makes an end to all the abominations of the world and Satan is cast into the lake of fire with the beast and the false prophet. Matthew 24:1-31 are the tribulations we have faced and will continue to face until the harvest judgement in Rev 14:14-20. Jesus said to those who endure unto the end are those who will be saved as they will be the Bride of Christ He comes back for, 1Thessalonians 4:13-18, and then the end of all abominations that make desolate will Jesus make an end to and then the New Heaven and New Jerusalem will be ushered down.

 

[Dave Watchman]

Hi JLB
Peaceful Sabbath

I'm sorry to say I think that the start of the tribulation is very soon. I don't even think there will be enough time to put up a prefab temple. Maybe there's enough time to put up a tent style temple like the one Moses did.

and after He taught that the Temple is destroyed Jesus said -

15 "Therefore when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand), Matthew 24:15

So we see a rebuilt Temple, just as Daniel teaches us.


JLB

Standing in the holy place means, as God told Moses, standing in "the suburbs". The verse you quote is not talking about a temple or any part of one.

Matthew:

“So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.



Luke:

“But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near. Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains,"

"Standing in the holy place" in Matthew is the equivalent to "Jerusalem surrounded by armies" in Luke. Matthew was a Jew so he used the Jewish vernacular to describe what God told Moses was "the suburbs". Luke was a Gentile writing to Gentiles so he just plainly stated "Jerusalem surrounded by armies". The holy place is not the temple. The holy place is the land 1500Ft. outside the perimeter wall of Jerusalem. Back in the day they called it "the suburbs" or "the holy place". It was the land given to the Levites for gardening and cattle grazing.

Numbers 35:4

And "the suburbs" of the cities, which ye shall give unto the Levites, shall reach from the wall of the city and outward a thousand cubits round about.

From Bible Gateway:

Had the Levites been a monastic order, such information would not have been necessary. But they were a tribe of families, and as such they were in need of real estate and land on which to graze their beasts.
Each city was to have pastureland that formed a square of 3,000 feet per side and whose perimeter was 1,500 feet in every direction from the town wall. Altogether, these allotments would represent fifteen square miles, or about .1 percent of the land of Canaan.

When the Roman general Vespasian set up the 1st siege of Jerusalem they were standing right in the holy place, the land given to the Levites, the holy ground. That was The Sign that Jesus gave for His followers to get out fast. Vespasian stopped the siege for some reason and packed up shop. The Jewish army took off after them, this allowed the Christians unmolested escape. When the Roman general Titus came back a few months latter to finish the job, there were no Christians left in Jerusalem. They all got out of there. Giddy up.

Dave

 

[reba]

Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

 

[JLB]

Hi JLB
Peaceful Sabbath

I'm sorry to say I think that the start of the tribulation is very soon. I don't even think there will be enough time to put up a prefab temple. Maybe there's enough time to put up a tent style temple like the one Moses did.






Standing in the holy place means, as God told Moses, standing in "the suburbs". The verse you quote is not talking about a temple or any part of one.

Matthew:

“So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.



Luke:

“But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near. Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains,"

"Standing in the holy place" in Matthew is the equivalent to "Jerusalem surrounded by armies" in Luke. Matthew was a Jew so he used the Jewish vernacular to describe what God told Moses was "the suburbs". Luke was a Gentile writing to Gentiles so he just plainly stated "Jerusalem surrounded by armies". The holy place is not the temple. The holy place is the land 1500Ft. outside the perimeter wall of Jerusalem. Back in the day they called it "the suburbs" or "the holy place". It was the land given to the Levites for gardening and cattle grazing.

Numbers 35:4

And "the suburbs" of the cities, which ye shall give unto the Levites, shall reach from the wall of the city and outward a thousand cubits round about.

From Bible Gateway:

Had the Levites been a monastic order, such information would not have been necessary. But they were a tribe of families, and as such they were in need of real estate and land on which to graze their beasts.
Each city was to have pastureland that formed a square of 3,000 feet per side and whose perimeter was 1,500 feet in every direction from the town wall. Altogether, these allotments would represent fifteen square miles, or about .1 percent of the land of Canaan.

When the Roman general Vespasian set up the 1st siege of Jerusalem they were standing right in the holy place, the land given to the Levites, the holy ground. That was The Sign that Jesus gave for His followers to get out fast. Vespasian stopped the siege for some reason and packed up shop. The Jewish army took off after them, this allowed the Christians unmolested escape. When the Roman general Titus came back a few months latter to finish the job, there were no Christians left in Jerusalem. They all got out of there. Giddy up.

Dave

Thanks for the post and the information you provided.

A couple of questions:

Do you believe that a man standing just "outside" the temple wall in the "holy place" is the same as armies that surround the city of Jerusalem?

Do you believe that the TYPE that occurred when Antiocus Ephiphanes sacrificed pigs in the holy place occurred "outside" the Temple walls.

Everything outside of the Holy Place, yet inside the Temple walls within the Temple is called the court of the Gentiles, so anything outside of the Temple would not be considered "The Holy Place".

The Third Temple will be rebuilt!

The man of sin will go to the Temple of God and proclaim himself as God ( Messiah).

This is how he will be revealed in his own time, by proclaiming himself as God from the Temple and performing signs and wonders to deceive...


JLB

 

[reba]

What about a temple built to take the place of the sacrifice of the Son of God can be Holy?

 

[DRS81]

The Bible never talks about seven years of some Great Tribulation as from the beginning of Satan's fall in the spiritual realm until the day of the Lord.

I believe it does. Dan 9:27

 

[JLB]

What about a temple built to take the place of the sacrifice of the Son of God can be Holy?

The Holy Place is how that particular area of the Temple is defined.

When the Jews rebuild the Temple, they will construct a Holy of Holies, and a Holy Place and an Outer Court.

30 And you shall raise up the tabernacle according to its pattern which you were shown on the mountain. 31 "You shall make a veil woven of blue, purple, and scarlet thread, and fine woven linen. It shall be woven with an artistic design of cherubim. 32 You shall hang it upon the four pillars of acacia wood overlaid with gold. Their hooks shall be gold, upon four sockets of silver.33 And you shall hang the veil from the clasps. Then you shall bring the ark of the Testimony in there, behind the veil. The veil shall be a divider for you between the holy place and the Most Holy.34 You shall put the mercy seat upon the ark of the Testimony in the Most Holy. Exodus 26:30-34

And again -

2 Therefore all the men of Israel assembled with King Solomon at the feast in the month of Ethanim, which is the seventh month. 3So all the elders of Israel came, and the priests took up the ark. 4 Then they brought up the ark of the Lord, the tabernacle of meeting, and all the holy furnishings that were in the tabernacle. The priests and the Levites brought them up. 5 Also King Solomon, and all the congregation of Israel who were assembled with him, were with him before the ark, sacrificing sheep and oxen that could not be counted or numbered for multitude. 6 Then the priests brought in the ark of the covenant of the Lord to its place, into the inner sanctuary of the temple, to the Most Holy Place, under the wings of the cherubim. 7 For the cherubim spread their two wings over the place of the ark, and the cherubim overshadowed the ark and its poles. 8 The poles extended so that the ends of the poles could be seen from the holy place, in front of the inner sanctuary; but they could not be seen from outside. And they are there to this day.
1 Kings 8:2-8

And it came to pass, when the priests came out of the holy place, that the cloud filled the house of the Lord,

The Jews will build this Temple according to what the scriptures have instructed.

They will name the areas within the Temple the same as they were named before as the previous Temple.

The Holy Place is the name of the area where the candlesticks and the showbread, as well as where the incense was burned.

The name of the room where these items were placed.


JLB

 

[reba]

Those building such a temple are so against Jesus how very sad... Why would God care about a place man named it holy it is empty

 

[Dave Watchman]

Thanks for the post and the information you provided.

A couple of questions:

Do you believe that a man standing just "outside" the temple wall in the "holy place" is the same as armies that surround the city of Jerusalem?

Do you believe that the TYPE that occurred when Antiocus Ephiphanes sacrificed pigs in the holy place occurred "outside" the Temple walls.

Everything outside of the Holy Place, yet inside the Temple walls within the Temple is called the court of the Gentiles, so anything outside of the Temple would not be considered "The Holy Place".

The Third Temple will be rebuilt!

The man of sin will go to the Temple of God and proclaim himself as God ( Messiah).

This is how he will be revealed in his own time, by proclaiming himself as God from the Temple and performing signs and wonders to deceive...


JLB

The land God gave to the levites, the holy place, was 1500ft outside the walls of the whole city of old Jerusalem not just the temple wall. I'm sorry if my note was not written clearly. I was referring to the land around the outer town wall, not the temple wall.

Antiocus Ephiphanes was a madman for sure but he was neither one of the two AofDs spoken of by the prophet Daniel. AofD #1 in Dan.11:31 was the one Jesus was warning His followers to watch out for in Matt. 24:15. AofD #2 in Dan.12:11 is at the end of the 1290 days just before Jesus arrives.
I wish that you would reread my note # 53 with an honest heart and consider the possibility that what we were brought up reading in prophecy books might not be 100% true.
Dave