Daniel 9:27 and Daniel 12:11-12

[reba]

I wish that you would reread my note # 53 with an honest heart and consider the possibility that what we were brought up reading in prophecy books might not be 100% true.
Dave

Aint that the truth...

 

[JLB]

Those building such a temple are so against Jesus how very sad... Why would God care about a place man named it holy it is empty

Because ofHis involvement with the Temple.

 

[JLB]

The land God gave to the levites, the holy place, was 1500ft outside the walls of the whole city of old Jerusalem not just the temple wall. I'm sorry if my note was not written clearly. I was referring to the land around the outer town wall, not the temple wall.

Antiocus Ephiphanes was a madman for sure but he was neither one of the two AofDs spoken of by the prophet Daniel. AofD #1 in Dan.11:31 was the one Jesus was warning His followers to watch out for in Matt. 24:15. AofD #2 in Dan.12:11 is at the end of the 1290 days just before Jesus arrives.
I wish that you would reread my note # 53 with an honest heart and consider the possibility that what we were brought up reading in prophecy books might not be 100% true.
Dave

I didn't learn from prophecy books.

I know AE was not thd antichrist but He sacrificed within the Holy Place of the Temple no outside the walls of the city.

Please show me the scripture that calls the area 1500 feet outside the walls of Jerusalem the Holy Place

JLB

 

[Dave Watchman]

I didn't learn from prophecy books.

I know AE was not thd antichrist but He sacrificed within the Holy Place of the Temple no outside the walls of the city.

Please show me the scripture that calls the area 1500 feet outside the walls of Jerusalem the Holy Place

JLB

Hi JLB

The Commander of the Lord's Army

13 When Joshua was by Jericho, he lifted up his eyes and looked, and behold, a man was standing before him with his drawn sword in his hand. And Joshua went to him and said to him, “Are you for us, or for our adversaries?” 14 And he said, “No; but I am the commander of the army of the Lord. Now I have come.” And Joshua fell on his face to the earth and worshiped and said to him, “What does my lord say to his servant?” 15 And the commander of the Lord's army said to Joshua, “Take off your sandals from your feet, for the place where you are standing is holy.” And Joshua did so.

This so called "man" said the same thing God said to Moses on Mt Sinai: “Take off your sandals from your feet, for the place where you are standing is holy.” In this case it was Joshua who was "standing in the holy place". Only God can make something holy: a day, a people, a temple or a place. When God gave the land around the perimeter wall of Jerusalem to the Levites it became by default "the holy place" just like where Joshua was standing outside of old Jericho.

If you look closely at the context of these two parallel verses I think you will see they are not talking about The Most Holy Place inside the temple, they are referring to the holy land given to the levites that surrounded the outer wall from 1500ft outward. Matthew (a Jew) writes: “So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand). Then Luke (a gentile) writing about the same event says: “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near". I think this is why Matthew put that (let the reader understand) part in there because he knew we were going to mix this thing up. What is called the holy place is EXPLAINED by Luke as the area that would be occupied by armies surrounding Jerusalem. And because he gives the EXPLANATION, he does not include the phrase: (let the reader understand). Try to imagine the Jewish experience in 66AD. They all grew up with the knowledge of Numbers 35:4 :

And "the suburbs" of the cities, which ye shall give unto the Levites, shall reach from the wall of the city and outward a thousand cubits round about.

They knew that this patch of land was made holy by God and given to the Levites. If they saw an entire Gentile army standing in the Priest's God given garden it would be an abomination to them.

Even before this when Jerusalem was destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar and the survivors were taken into Babylon, it was God’s plan for the rebuilt city to have "holy ground" or a "holy district" surrounding the walls of the city. (Ezekiel 45:1-6) I can't find any rabbinical documents from 66AD referring to "the holy place" but check this out:

The word translated 'place' in the expression 'holy place'
in Matthew's account is TOPOS (see any Greek dictionary or
concordance like Strong's). The word TOPOS
means simply a locality.

lo·cal·i·ty
noun: locality; plural noun: localities
the position or site of something.
"the rock's size and locality"
an area or neighborhood, especially as regarded as a place occupied by certain people
or as the scene of particular activities.

TOPOS:
Such words as TOPICAL and TOPOGRAPHY
are derived from it. It is used in such scriptural expressions as
'a desert place,' or a 'dry place'.
(It is not the same term as is used in describing the holy of holies in the
temple).


The scary part is that this is not even the most challenging thing for the reader of scripture to understand. Jerusalem surrounded by armies = standing in the holy place.

Dave

 

[JLB]

Hi JLB

The Commander of the Lord's Army

13 When Joshua was by Jericho, he lifted up his eyes and looked, and behold, a man was standing before him with his drawn sword in his hand. And Joshua went to him and said to him, “Are you for us, or for our adversaries?” 14 And he said, “No; but I am the commander of the army of the Lord. Now I have come.” And Joshua fell on his face to the earth and worshiped and said to him, “What does my lord say to his servant?” 15 And the commander of the Lord's army said to Joshua, “Take off your sandals from your feet, for the place where you are standing is holy.” And Joshua did so.

This so called "man" said the same thing God said to Moses on Mt Sinai: “Take off your sandals from your feet, for the place where you are standing is holy.” In this case it was Joshua who was "standing in the holy place". Only God can make something holy: a day, a people, a temple or a place. When God gave the land around the perimeter wall of Jerusalem to the Levites it became by default "the holy place" just like where Joshua was standing outside of old Jericho.

If you look closely at the context of these two parallel verses I think you will see they are not talking about The Most Holy Place inside the temple, they are referring to the holy land given to the levites that surrounded the outer wall from 1500ft outward. Matthew (a Jew) writes: “So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand). Then Luke (a gentile) writing about the same event says: “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near". I think this is why Matthew put that (let the reader understand) part in there because he knew we were going to mix this thing up. What is called the holy place is EXPLAINED by Luke as the area that would be occupied by armies surrounding Jerusalem. And because he gives the EXPLANATION, he does not include the phrase: (let the reader understand). Try to imagine the Jewish experience in 66AD. They all grew up with the knowledge of Numbers 35:4 :

And "the suburbs" of the cities, which ye shall give unto the Levites, shall reach from the wall of the city and outward a thousand cubits round about.

They knew that this patch of land was made holy by God and given to the Levites. If they saw an entire Gentile army standing in the Priest's God given garden it would be an abomination to them.

Even before this when Jerusalem was destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar and the survivors were taken into Babylon, it was God’s plan for the rebuilt city to have "holy ground" or a "holy district" surrounding the walls of the city. (Ezekiel 45:1-6) I can't find any rabbinical documents from 66AD referring to "the holy place" but check this out:

The word translated 'place' in the expression 'holy place'
in Matthew's account is TOPOS (see any Greek dictionary or
concordance like Strong's). The word TOPOS
means simply a locality.

lo·cal·i·ty
noun: locality; plural noun: localities
the position or site of something.
"the rock's size and locality"
an area or neighborhood, especially as regarded as a place occupied by certain people
or as the scene of particular activities.

TOPOS:
Such words as TOPICAL and TOPOGRAPHY
are derived from it. It is used in such scriptural expressions as
'a desert place,' or a 'dry place'.
(It is not the same term as is used in describing the holy of holies in the
temple).


The scary part is that this is not even the most challenging thing for the reader of scripture to understand. Jerusalem surrounded by armies = standing in the holy place.

Dave

Please show me the scripture that calls the area 1500 feet outside the walls of Jerusalem the Holy Place.


JLB

 

[for_his_glory]

I believe it does. Dan 9:27

Where in this verse does it say a seven year great tribulation?

Vs.27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The 70th seven began with Christ baptism in AD 29 and three years later at the end of the first half of the 70th seven sacrifices and offering ceased because Christ hung on the cross as he was the final sacrifice that fulfilled the law. From the giving of the law in 458BC when Ezra went to establish the law, or to rebuild the Spiritual city right up to the cross were the first 69 sevens. The 70th seven is from the time of the cross until Jesus comes and gathers his bride as they prepare to stand in the Holy place until the overspreading of abominations he will make desolate, or make an end to all that would not repent.

 

[for_his_glory]

Aint that the truth...

I so agree reba, why read all those prophecy books when we have a true one called the word of God (Bible). It's all there ya just got to do some digging is all.

 

[Sinthesis]

If interpreting prophecy was that easy then it seems it would have all been figured out long ago.

 

[for_his_glory]

If interpreting prophecy was that easy then it seems it would have all been figured out long ago.

To many people are lazy when it comes to studying the word of God and would rather rely on others to teach them not realizing they are being taught wrong. They become a pulpit follower instead of a follower of Christ as they love to have their ears tickled with a feel good message, but yet lack true knowledge that is only given by the Holy Spirit. This is why it is so important to learn how to discern that of what others are teaching us.

Mat 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

 

[DRS81]

Where in this verse does it say a seven year great tribulation?

Vs.27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The 70th seven began with Christ baptism in AD 29 and three years later at the end of the first half of the 70th seven sacrifices and offering ceased because Christ hung on the cross as he was the final sacrifice that fulfilled the law. From the giving of the law in 458BC when Ezra went to establish the law, or to rebuild the Spiritual city right up to the cross were the first 69 sevens.

Where in this verse does it say the 70th week is already complete. Dan 9:27

The 70th seven is from the time of the cross until Jesus comes and gathers his bride as they prepare to stand in the Holy place until the overspreading of abominations he will make desolate, or make an end to all that would not repent.

No it's not, the 70th week is not a span of 2,000 years. The 70th week is describing seven years. One week in the jubilee calendar is seven years. Confirming the covenant is describing the Antichrist signing a seven year peace treaty with Israel. How knowledgeable are you in regards to the jubilee calendar. - DRS81

1 week = 7 year periods
7 weeks = 49 year periods
62 weeks = 434 year periods
69 (7+62) weeks = 483 year periods
70 weeks = 490 year periods of time

Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[Deborah13]

Where in this verse does it say the 70th week is already complete. Dan 9:27



No it's not, the 70th week is not a span of 2,000 years. The 70th week is describing seven years. One week in the jubilee calendar is seven years. Confirming the covenant is describing the Antichrist signing a seven year peace treaty with Israel. How knowledgeable are you in regards to the jubilee calendar. - DRS81

1 week = 7 year periods
7 weeks = 49 year periods
62 weeks = 434 year periods
69 (7+62) weeks = 483 year periods
70 weeks = 490 year periods of time

Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Dan 9:26 And after the sixty and two weeks, cut off is Messiah, and the city and the holy place are not his, the Leader who hath come doth destroy the people; and its end is with a flood, and till the end is war, determined are desolations.

I read this as saying After the 69 wks, the Messiah is cut off. To me that says He is cut off in the next week, the 70th week.

 

[DRS81]

Dan 9:26 And after the sixty and two weeks, cut off is Messiah, and the city and the holy place are not his, the Leader who hath come doth destroy the people; and its end is with a flood, and till the end is war, determined are desolations.

I read this as saying After the 69 wks, the Messiah is cut off. To me that says He is cut off in the next week, the 70th week.

Hi Deb. The cutting off of the Messiah is the crucifixion of Jesus.

 

[Deborah13]

Hi Deb. The cutting off of the Messiah is the crucifixion of Jesus.

I agree.
In the 70th week.

 

[Sinthesis]

To many people are lazy when it comes to studying the word of God and would rather rely on others to teach them not realizing they are being taught wrong. They become a pulpit follower instead of a follower of Christ as they love to have their ears tickled with a feel good message, but yet lack true knowledge that is only given by the Holy Spirit. This is why it is so important to learn how to discern that of what others are teaching us.

Mat 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Discernment is important, but the true knowledge given by the Holy Spirit is a feel good message. That is how we are to understand the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

 

[Sinthesis]

I agree.
In the 70th week.

Yep, and for those who followed Him, He confirmed the Messianic covenant.

 

[Deborah13]

Discernment is important, but the true knowledge given by the Holy Spirit is a feel good message. That is how we are to understand the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Good News!

 

[DRS81]

I agree.
In the 70th week.

No, the 70th week hasn't happened yet. This is actually an easier description to read..http://www.easyenglish.info/bible-commentary/dan-lbw.htm

v25 ‘I want you to know and understand’, Gabriel continued. ‘Someone will issue a command to build Jerusalem again. 49 years (in other words, 7 times 7) will pass. People will build Jerusalem city again. They will build streets and a wall. But God’s people will suffer trouble during this time. Then there will be 434 years (in other words, 62 times 7) more. Then, the special ruler that God has chosen will come. v26 After the 434 years, people will kill the special ruler that God has appointed. He will have nothing. Then a foreign prince will come with his army and he will destroy the city and the holy place. The end will be like a flood. God has ordered that people should destroy things. He has decided that there will be war until the end of that time. v27 The prince will make a strong agreement with many people for 7 years. In the middle of the 7 years he will stop all the *sacrifices. He will put an awful thing in the holy place. And it will stay there until God acts. God has decided to kill this prince, and his end will happen.’

 

[Deborah13]

No, the 70th week hasn't happened yet. This is actually an easier description to read..http://www.easyenglish.info/bible-commentary/dan-lbw.htm

v25 ‘I want you to know and understand’, Gabriel continued. ‘Someone will issue a command to build Jerusalem again. 49 years (in other words, 7 times 7) will pass. People will build Jerusalem city again. They will build streets and a wall. But God’s people will suffer trouble during this time. Then there will be 434 years (in other words, 62 times 7) more. Then, the special ruler that God has chosen will come. v26 After the 434 years, people will kill the special ruler that God has appointed. He will have nothing. Then a foreign prince will come with his army and he will destroy the city and the holy place. The end will be like a flood. God has ordered that people should destroy things. He has decided that there will be war until the end of that time. v27 The prince will make a strong agreement with many people for 7 years. In the middle of the 7 years he will stop all the *sacrifices. He will put an awful thing in the holy place. And it will stay there until God acts. God has decided to kill this prince, and his end will happen.’

Let me quote your own commentator.....

"Verses 25-27 Then Gabriel told Daniel more about what would happen.

A new king (Cyrus) would allow the *Jews to return to Jerusalem (Ezra 1:1-4). Not many of the *Jews wanted to go to Jerusalem. Most of them had been born in Babylon. Only the old people like Daniel had been to Jerusalem. The people who did go to Jerusalem tried to build God’s holy house again. It was hard work. The other people in the country tried to stop them. Many years later, another king (Artaxerxes) allowed Nehemiah to go to build the walls of Jerusalem again (Nehemiah 2:4-6). This too was hard work. Again, the other people in the country tried to stop them.

This is probably the 7 times 7 years.

Then there is a period of 62 times 7 years. After this, Jesus came into the world. He taught and he cured people for about three and a half years. But then the people killed him. He was the man whom God had appointed. Later the *Romans came. They destroyed Jerusalem and God’s holy place.

When Jesus was born, some people were waiting for him (Luke 2:25-38). Perhaps they had read the book of Daniel.

God promised Daniel that he would remove evil things. He said that he would start a good time that would last for always. This has not happened yet. However, when Jesus died he defeated God’s evil enemies. Evil things will only last for a certain time. God has decided that time.

Some people think that the last part of Gabriel’s message has not happened yet. It will happen at the very end of the world. Then there will be no more evil things, as God has promised. Then he will start a good time that will last for always."

Your commentator has stated the weeks just as I see them.
7 times 7 + 62 times 7 = 69 times 7 69 weeks and After this the Messiah preaches for 3.5 yrs.

 

[JLB]

Yep, and for those who followed Him, He confirmed the Messianic covenant.

Sorry Brother,

The Covenant with Jesus Christ is an eternal Covenant not a 7 year Covenant.

JLB

 

[JLB]

Let me quote your own commentator.....

"Verses 25-27 Then Gabriel told Daniel more about what would happen.

A new king (Cyrus) would allow the *Jews to return to Jerusalem (Ezra 1:1-4). Not many of the *Jews wanted to go to Jerusalem. Most of them had been born in Babylon. Only the old people like Daniel had been to Jerusalem. The people who did go to Jerusalem tried to build God’s holy house again. It was hard work. The other people in the country tried to stop them. Many years later, another king (Artaxerxes) allowed Nehemiah to go to build the walls of Jerusalem again (Nehemiah 2:4-6). This too was hard work. Again, the other people in the country tried to stop them.

This is probably the 7 times 7 years.

Then there is a period of 62 times 7 years. After this, Jesus came into the world. He taught and he cured people for about three and a half years. But then the people killed him. He was the man whom God had appointed. Later the *Romans came. They destroyed Jerusalem and God’s holy place.

When Jesus was born, some people were waiting for him (Luke 2:25-38). Perhaps they had read the book of Daniel.

God promised Daniel that he would remove evil things. He said that he would start a good time that would last for always. This has not happened yet. However, when Jesus died he defeated God’s evil enemies. Evil things will only last for a certain time. God has decided that time.

Some people think that the last part of Gabriel’s message has not happened yet. It will happen at the very end of the world. Then there will be no more evil things, as God has promised. Then he will start a good time that will last for always."

Your commentator has stated the weeks just as I see them.
7 times 7 + 62 times 7 = 69 times 7 69 weeks and After this the Messiah preaches for 3.5 yrs.

Messiah the Prince is a reference to the. Day the whole city cried Hosanna.

It has comet one known as Palm Sunday.

That is the day the 69 weeks ended.

5 days later Jesus was cut off. Crucified.


JLB