[_ Old Earth _] Darwin and Galileo.....both got it wrong ?

[Edward]

Seriously, twinc, are you trolling?

NO ONE can believe the earth is standing still at the center of the universe or at the center of the solar system.

Now in all fairness to twin, he sounds serious. So rather than outright reject him and his statements (which are largely based on ones education and long standing precepts), one should actually consider that we HAVE been lied to our entire lives about most everything, and toss our preconceptions out the window, and watch the video as a little child and consider the possibility for real. That's the only honorable and scholastic way to approach it as opposed to emotional rejection and mockery.

I did this and watched the entire video. Assuming for the sake of discussion and the pursuit of knowledge and truth, that they are potentially right...I see that they did make at least one very interesting point...

That the 24 hour per day timing is actually off a little with the earth revolves theory, and fits perfectly with the universe revolves theory.

I still don't believe it. I do believe that the earth revolves and moves and so forth, because I've believed for so long that it does, but I found it interesting and...sort of, in a way kinda plausible. Maybe it a childish theory...but do we have to be childish in our responses to him?

:wink

 

[Free]

it seems you refer to yesterday's science which has now restored the science before that - via google see [it does not move] and www.galileowaswrong.com by the new Galileo/Sungenis - imho a modern genius - twinc

I'm starting to believe that you might be trolling. Today's science, as far as the solar system is concerned, is based on the earth revolving around the sun, and it works. This means the earth is not stationary.

 

[Pizza]

Now in all fairness to twin, he sounds serious. So rather than outright reject him and his statements (which are largely based on ones education and long standing precepts), one should actually consider that we HAVE been lied to our entire lives about most everything, and toss our preconceptions out the window, and watch the video as a little child and consider the possibility for real. That's the only honorable and scholastic way to approach it as opposed to emotional rejection and mockery.

I did this and watched the entire video. Assuming for the sake of discussion and the pursuit of knowledge and truth, that they are potentially right...I see that they did make at least one very interesting point...

That the 24 hour per day timing is actually off a little with the earth revolves theory, and fits perfectly with the universe revolves theory.

I still don't believe it. I do believe that the earth revolves and moves and so forth, because I've believed for so long that it does, but I found it interesting and...sort of, in a way kinda plausible. Maybe it a childish theory...but do we have to be childish in our responses to him?

1) I'm not being childish, I'm asking him for an honest reply. I think he's pulling our leg here.

2) "The 24 hour timing is actually off a little...." Ya gotta be kidding me here.

 

[Edward]

1) I'm not being childish, I'm asking him for an honest reply. I think he's pulling our leg here.

2) "The 24 hour timing is actually off a little...." Ya gotta be kidding me here.

That's what they said. I only watched it once so forget exactly how they said it, but he sounded adament that it didn't fit the model. I'm not calling you specifically childish brother, I was talking in general that the tone could be a wee bit more respectful to the man.

 

[Pizza]

Madyln Murry O'hare was adamant as well. She was wrong!

 

[Edward]

Madyln Murry O'hare was adamant as well. She was wrong!

That's right. I don't believe it either but I gave it an honest look see. I feel in my heart that it is wrong, but not based in an emotional place.

 

[jasonc]

o'haire was a communist, but I think what Edward meant is that we shouldn't commit what is called poisonioning the well. even though I doubt the 24 hour day is off. we are basing that off the earths movement to the sun. we use a solar calendar. and other cultures such as the Hebrews used the lunar calendar when properly done with the later both are accurate.

 

[Drew]

..... one should actually consider that we HAVE been lied to our entire lives about most everything,...

What kinds of things do you believe we have been lied to about?

While I would agree that there is a lot of "lying" going on, I suggest that most of this is confined to realms like politics. I would certainly challenge the notion that there is any systemic lying going on in the domain of science; the very nature of the scientific worldview requires that claims to truth be substantiated with evidence. No scientist who asks others to "take my word for it" will be taken seriously by their peers.

 

[Doulos Iesou]

What kinds of things do you believe we have been lied to about?

While I would agree that there is a lot of "lying" going on, I suggest that most of this is confined to realms like politics. I would certainly challenge the notion that there is any systemic lying going on in the domain of science; the very nature of the scientific worldview requires that claims to truth be substantiated with evidence. No scientist who asks others to "take my word for it" will be taken seriously by their peers.

It is always a dangerous thing to posit that a large group of people have to be lying in order to justify our beliefs.

 

[twinc]

how is it then that some have eyes to see that see not and ears to hear that hear not or that two men look out of prison bars and one sees muck and the other stars or that one man's meat is another man's poison or what is good for the goose is not really good for the gander - twinc

 

[Pizza]

I see no reason to bring gender studies into this.

 

[Barbarian]

do you know, for certain, the calculations NASA currently uses - would it be the same as the Chinese and Indians etc - twinc

Yep. V=V0 + at. The Earth is moving about 1000 mph at the equator. So a rocket launched eastward will have a velocity of 1000 mph + whatever the acceleration is, times the number of seconds it's burning. (This with regard to an observer above the Earth)

If you fire it west, V0 is a negative number, and the amount of payload liftable into orbit is correspondingly less. An the measured numbers at higher latitudes are just what rotation would give you.

Oh, and the position of the Moon relative to any particular place on Earth changes with the revolution of the moon around the Earth; the normal moonrise is mostly but not wholly due to the rotation of the Earth. The moon, if its revolution were responsible for the apparent rotation around the Earth, would be moving about, um... 62,000 miles per hour, which would completely invalidate Newton's theory of gravitation, which has been repeatedly tested and confirmed. That is, an object orbiting at that distance and speed would require Earth's gravity to be many times its observed value.

 

[Edward]

What kinds of things do you believe we have been lied to about?

While I would agree that there is a lot of "lying" going on, I suggest that most of this is confined to realms like politics. I would certainly challenge the notion that there is any systemic lying going on in the domain of science; the very nature of the scientific worldview requires that claims to truth be substantiated with evidence. No scientist who asks others to "take my word for it" will be taken seriously by their peers.

It's across the board in many fields. All which lead us away from God, the truth and how to live. Here's some for instances...Archaeological. Many videos report that bones of giants have been unearthed. Word gets around, the Smithsonian Institution shows up, gathers up the bones, to supposedly go validate the valuable find and so forth...and the bones are never seen again. Why? It would give validity to the scriptures. Cosmology. We came from a big bang. We know better, God created us. They teach these things as if they are fact to the children. They wont even teach the alternate point of view so that kids could weigh the evidence and decide for themselves. Why? They don't want people believing in God. Medical. They don't treat causes and cure things, they treat symptoms. They do not keep a tight rein on the food source to ensure healthy people. They don't want healthy people, they want them sick so they can make money on them. To keep them broke and unhealthy. Spirituality. Supposedly, we are a nation under God and founded on Godly principles. Yet persecution rises and Christians are being driven into the closet. We are not humans on a spiritual journey, we are spiritual beings on a human journey. They do not teach this, how to live spiritually. We are to live for the spirit.

Politics. Here's a big one. There's no justice anymore. The little man is not held up for justice, he is bled dry of all of his money. They let rapists and murderers back onto the street and lock up good people on technicalities. You have to have big money to even try to get justice nowadays. I've heard of them taking peoples homes over teeny bits of money and so forth. We let the homeless sleep on the street and go hungry, we give billions away to other countries. We send our children to be maimed for corporate interests and then deny them help when they come home. They lie to the public to get money to go to war where it is none of their business, leave our borders unguarded while our boys are over there making them rich. The first thing they did in Iraq was to get the oil fields up and running again. I've seen pics and videos of our soldiers over there guarding opium fields. Do you know heroin is coming back? I hear about it more and more. The CIA got the nation strung out on drugs, and then started a so called war on drugs to make money on us and lock us all up.

Education. I read my sons textbooks when they brought them home and found outright lies in them. They're dumbing us down. My wife is from Europe and seen the kids high school work, and told me about how this stuff is taught to them overseas in grammar school.

Scripture is clear that we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities and powers, evil spirits and so forth. And they (the evil spirits) are smart. They have been controlling the governments pretty much across the board. Politics is full of occultism that they keep quiet about. They are smart enough to attack us from all angles in all areas. This is not new brother, this (spiritual) war has been in progress for thousands of years. The evil spirits can not show themselves, for it would frighten people and turn them towards God. So they have to operate behind the scenes and use deception to dumb everyone down and (keep us from God) control us. They're terrified to come across a Spirit filled Christian for the power of God is with him. Oh yes brother, we've been lied to our entire lives and about almost everything. If this sounds like a conspiracy theory...well, it is. A spiritual conspiracy and they want your soul. I've just scratched the surface of all the lies. I don't even know very much, but I know this. If we lean upon our own understanding...then we will be led away from God. We have one friend. We have one person that we can trust, and that is Jesus Christ.

 

[Drew]

It's across the board in many fields. All which lead us away from God, the truth and how to live. Here's some for instances...Archaeological. Many videos report that bones of giants have been unearthed. Word gets around, the Smithsonian Institution shows up, gathers up the bones, to supposedly go validate the valuable find and so forth...and the bones are never seen again. Why? It would give validity to the scriptures.

Can you substantiate this assertion?

Cosmology. We came from a big bang. We know better, God created us.

The evidence for some form of big bang is overwhelming. How do you know that God is not the agent who generated the Big Bang?

They teach these things as if they are fact to the children. They wont even teach the alternate point of view so that kids could weigh the evidence and decide for themselves. Why?

Because, frankly, the alternate view is not scientific and has no evidence to commend it.

They don't want healthy people, they want them sick so they can make money on them

This one is at least plausible, in my opinion - there is arguably a financial motive for big corporations to keep people sick and make money by selling them drugs.

 

[Drew]

Spirituality. Supposedly, we are a nation under God and founded on Godly principles. Yet persecution rises and Christians are being driven into the closet.

Where does this happen? In the United States?.

Politics. Here's a big one. There's no justice anymore. The little man is not held up for justice, he is bled dry of all of his money. They let rapists and murderers back onto the street and lock up good people on technicalities. You have to have big money to even try to get justice nowadays.

I think you have a valid concern here - money influences justice and that's wrong.

We send our children to be maimed for corporate interests and then deny them help when they come home. They lie to the public to get money to go to war where it is none of their business, leave our borders unguarded while our boys are over there making them rich. The first thing they did in Iraq was to get the oil fields up and running again. I've seen pics and videos of our soldiers over there guarding opium fields. Do you know heroin is coming back? I hear about it more and more. The CIA got the nation strung out on drugs, and then started a so called war on drugs to make money on us and lock us all up.

I would be interested if you can make a case about this thing with the CIA. But, again, I think you at least are on the right track - I am inclined to believe that some corporations make money when your country (I am from Canada) goes to war.

Education. I read my sons textbooks when they brought them home and found outright lies in them.

Can you give some examples of these lies.

Politics is full of occultism that they keep quiet about.

Not sure what you mean by "occultism".

I agree with some of the things you say, but I am not sure what you mean by "relying on our own understanding". I am aware of that verse from Proverbs but the fact is that we have minds and we should use them. Think of all the great advances that have arisen because we have learned about our world - medicines, technology that improves life, etc.

 

[Edward]

Can you substantiate this assertion?

I heard about it in videos and some articles i read. I'll try. Lemmee see here, a google search only brought up 383,000 hits so I hope that's enough for you. Here's a few brother.


http://humansarefree.com/2014/09/the-great-smithsonian-cover-up-18-giant.html

http://piramidasunca.ba/eng/latest-...keletons-from-people-from-other-museums?.html

http://www.micahhanks.com/conspiracy-2/big-buried-secrets-giant-skeletons-and-the-smithsonian/

http://www.burlingtonnews.net/smithsonian.html

http://tnephilim.blogspot.com/p/smithsonian-cover-up-of-9-feet-giant.html

You're not going to make me list all 383,000 hits are you brother?!

I haven't even touched on the big lie. Oh ok, I will now while I'm'a drinking my morning coffee. Aliens. Now certainly you wont make me substantiate the coverup by Washingtom concerning aliens and UFO's, lol. You know who the aliens really are? They are the disembodied spirits of the Nephilim spoken of in Genesis 6, Numbers 13, and a couple other places in scriptures. Evil spirits in other words. Oh, aliens are not disembodied, you say. Well you're right. But why do you think that in thousands of UFO cases, cattle are found mutilated with blood and body organs taken with what appears to be very surgical procedure? AND, many of the UFO abduction reports testify to the fact that their reproductive systems are toyed with by the aliens? They are genetically engineering bodies for the disembodied spirits of the Nephilim. But make no mistake about it, they're evil spirits man. They are not inter-galactical, they are hyper-dimensional spirit beings. One clue, is that (we have hubble) we never see ufo's way out in space, but people report that ufo's do seem to just disappear many times. That's hyper-dimensional. The lie is going to be open contact with "aliens" who come from a distant planet to help us. (but first we have to do away with Christianity, what a coincidence).

The evidence for some form of big bang is overwhelming. How do you know that God is not the agent who generated the Big Bang?

Overwhelming huh? Substantiate that., lol. Some form of natural explosion that came out of nothing? Good one brother? How do you know this? Are you a cosmologist? Or are you merely putting your faith into what you have read? Explosions cause chaos and throw things outward brother. Not bring things together. Hey though, in fairness, maybe they was a bang when God spoke, I wasn't there.

Because, frankly, the alternate view is not scientific and has no evidence to commend it.

Well frankly the scientific view has been debunked, scientifically. Everything about the earth, and human life for that matter shows evidence of design in that there is too fine of a balance for it all to be chance. Earth is in the goldilocks zone, if we had any more or any less ozone or carbon dioxide, life wouldn't be possible here. If the earths crust was any thicker or thinner, life couldn't exist here. There's a slew of information out there about all of this...(It's called Google, brother.) All of the little details that make life possible here all put to the statistical analysis for chance go into figures of absurdity. Do you want substantiation of this too? I have it if you have a couple hours to watch a video.

Where does this happen? In the United States?.

It's overseas mostly right now, but it's slowly happening here. No more prayer in schools, no more ten commandments. Pastors sermons on creationism being taken and pressure put on them to not teach it. Yeah, we're headed that way.

I would be interested if you can make a case about this thing with the CIA. But, again, I think you at least are on the right track - I am inclined to believe that some corporations make money when your country (I am from Canada) goes to war..

Brother...it's an established fact that the CIA runs drugs. Ever heard of Ollie North? Do you think they stopped?! That's been going on since the vietnam war...and war, it's big business for banks. They loan money to both sides for the war effort and then lend more money to rebuild. It brings the people into subjection also. War is the biggest industry on earth (pharmaceuticals are second).

Can you give some examples of these lies.

Sure. That we're a democracy! We are NOT. We are a Constitutional Republic.

Not sure what you mean by "occultism".

I agree with some of the things you say, but I am not sure what you mean by "relying on our own understanding". I am aware of that verse from Proverbs but the fact is that we have minds and we should use them. Think of all the great advances that have arisen because we have learned about our world - medicines, technology that improves life, etc.

They're a bunch of Satan worshippers.
We can't rely on our own understanding, we'll die. We should not use our minds. no. We should trust in the Lord from the heart. That's the crux of living for the Spirit.

Romans 12:2
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

 

[Doulos Iesou]

Overwhelming huh? Substantiate that., lol. Some form of natural explosion that came out of nothing? Good one brother? How do you know this? Are you a cosmologist? Or are you merely putting your faith into what you have read? Explosions cause chaos and throw things outward brother. Not bring things together. Hey though, in fairness, maybe they was a bang when God spoke, I wasn't there.

It clearly is the strongest Theory from a scientific perspective, and when I mean theory I don't mean speculative conclusion, but it is the best explanation given the evidence we have. Such as the rapid expansion of the universe, that the galaxies farther away from us are even accelerating away pointing to an initial rapid expansion that has since propelled the galaxies apart to their current locations. The second major piece of evidence is the background radiation found and predicted to exist as a result of the Big Bang, this was actually accidentally found in the 1960s, you should look it up.. it's a cool story!

There is loads of evidence, but to highlight just a few more, there is the chemical composition of the universe which is explained by the initial state of the universe and even to the sub-atomic level and is further clarified with the finding of the Higgs-Boson Particle. There is also the age of the universe, this is one that seems to have ultimately disproved the steady state hypothesis, given that we can't find anything older than 13.8 Billion years old.

What the Big Bang Theory comments on is what happened at the moment the Point of Singularity "Banged" and expanded into what the universe is today, eventually creating the first hydrogen and helium molecules. The hydrogen molecules were eventually compressed together by gravity until the temperature became hot enough for fusion which created the first stars. The rest of the elements that make up our universe were created through that fusion process or through Super Novas. There is loads of evidence for this and all supports the Big Bang Theory, though that doesn't mean we know everything about it.. not even close.

What the Big Bang Theory is silent on, is what happened prior to the Big Bang, and theoretical physicists can only guess at what happened. I believe that it certainly wouldn't be a preposterous claim to say that God was the cause, given that this solution doesn't have the problem of an infinite regress as a multi-verse does. Which is why it was a Priest who discovered the Big Bang Theory.

 

[Drew]

Here's a few brother.

http://humansarefree.com/2014/09/the-great-smithsonian-cover-up-18-giant.html

Let the readers judge - here are a few of the headlines on this website:

Secret Project Created Weaponized Ebola in South Africa in the 1980s

How I Found the Lost Continent of Atlantis, the Source of All Civilization

Huge Scientific Discovery: 'Hobbits' Existed as a Separate Humanoid Species

The Amazing History of the Dogon Tribe: Aryan Aliens in Ancient Africa

Do you still ascribe credibility to this particular site?

 

[Doulos Iesou]

Let the readers judge - here are a few of the headlines on this website:

Secret Project Created Weaponized Ebola in South Africa in the 1980s

How I Found the Lost Continent of Atlantis, the Source of All Civilization

Huge Scientific Discovery: 'Hobbits' Existed as a Separate Humanoid Species

The Amazing History of the Dogon Tribe: Aryan Aliens in Ancient Africa

Do you still ascribe credibility to this particular site?

Just because one has a source, does not make it a credible source. Even if it is 383,000 sources that all lack credibility or are unrelated. One substantial source that had credibility would do though.

Don't believe everything you read on the internet kids. Especially if it is politically or religiously motivated or driven.

 

[Drew]

There is loads of evidence, but to highlight just a few more, there is the chemical composition of the universe which is explained by the initial state of the universe and even to the sub-atomic level.....

One of the greatest successes of the BB theory is that it provides the only explanation for the abundance of helium in our universe. I believe that, without a BB, there is no explanation for the observation that our universe is about 23-25 % helium.