[_ Old Earth _] Darwin and Galileo.....both got it wrong ?

[Doulos Iesou]

One of the greatest successes of the BB theory is that it provides the only explanation for the abundance of helium in our universe. I believe that, without a BB, there is no explanation for the observation that our universe is about 23-25 % helium.

That's a good point, another piece of solid evidence for Big Bang Theory.

 

[Drew]

http://piramidasunca.ba/eng/latest-...keletons-from-people-from-other-museums?.html

This particular website promotes the work of a Dr. Osmanagich. Here is something about this person from wikipedia:

"In his book Alternative History he suggested that Hitler and other leading Nazis escaped to an underground base in Antarctica."

Again, do you stand by this web page as a credible source of information?

 

[Edward]

There is loads of evidence, but to highlight just a few more, there is the chemical composition of the universe which is explained by the initial state of the universe and even to the sub-atomic level and is further clarified with the finding of the Higgs-Boson Particle. There is also the age of the universe, this is one that seems to have ultimately disproved the steady state hypothesis, given that we can't find anything older than 13.8 Billion years old.

Brother, that's my trade, I can disprove that right now. (Heating and A/C). Heat flows from hot to cold, this is a fact. If the universe was 13 billion years old then it would be a uniform temperature and it's not.

 

[Edward]

There is loads of evidence, but to highlight just a few more, there is the chemical composition of the universe which is explained by the initial state of the universe and even to the sub-atomic level and is further clarified with the finding of the Higgs-Boson Particle. There is also the age of the universe, this is one that seems to have ultimately disproved the steady state hypothesis, given that we can't find anything older than 13.8 Billion years old.

Brother, that's my trade, I can disprove that right now. (Heating and A/C). Heat flows from hot to cold, this is a fact. If the universe was 13 billion years old then it would be a uniform temperature and it's not.

Just because one has a source, does not make it a credible source. Even if it is 383,000 sources that all lack credibility or are unrelated. One substantial source that had credibility would do though.

Do you think that if they was covering it up, that they're going to come out and admit it? So you're saying that they haven't found giants bones. 383,000 hits are all lying but the Government isn't. Oh brother. You believe what you want to believe bud. I know the truth. That's overwhelming evidence as you say. And even if you say that the strongest theory is that of evolution and so forth, it's not, it's just the one most widely propagated. So buy into it if you want to.

 

[Drew]

Heat flows from hot to cold, this is a fact. If the universe was 13 billion years old then it would be a uniform temperature and it's not.

We all agree that heat flows from hot to cold and that eventually the universe will be at a uniform temperature. Please tell me how you know that 13 billion years is long enough for this to happen.

One challenge for the Young Universe position is that it requires that God created a universe which gives us all sorts of reasons for believing it is old when it is not. Does that seem plausible?

 

[Doulos Iesou]

Brother, that's my trade, I can disprove that right now. (Heating and A/C). Heat flows from hot to cold, this is a fact. If the universe was 13 billion years old then it would be a uniform temperature and it's not.

You're an astrophysicist? That's the trade that is truly informed on the state of the early universe, strange that you would see this and they miss it.

The temperature at the beginning of the universe was nearly uniform, but it demonstrably was not due to the manipulation of gravity drawing in the hydrogen and helium initially created to birth stars through fusion. These stars ended up being different sizes which resulted in different amounts of energy being put out into the universe at varying areas. These stars then died or went super nova and created other stars which then lead to even more variations in heat and energy output.

Why the universe must be a uniform temperature at 13.8 billion years is a rather odd hypothesis. How do you surmise that distant starlight has managed to reach earth over millions of light years?

Do you think that if they was covering it up, that they're going to come out and admit it? So you're saying that they haven't found giants bones. 383,000 hits are all lying but the Government isn't.

I have no idea if they were covering it up, nor is it of much consequence to me or anyone else I imagine. Scientists are usually quite eager to reveal discoveries of great interest as they receive attention that usually leads to monetary gain. So I don't really see any motivation, especially taking into account that most within the government are in fact people of faith, or at least enough to make it not much of a big deal to cover up.

I also haven't investigated 383,000 hits, but I'm sure I could come up with that many hits for a hole host of hoaxs and other myths. You have yet to provide just one hit that has any kind of credibility or reliability.

That's the important factor.

h brother. You believe what you want to believe bud. I know the truth. That's overwhelming evidence as you say. And even if you say that the strongest theory is that of evolution and so forth, it's not, it's just the one most widely propagated. So buy into it if you want to.

If your validation and justification for "truth" is on the basis of how many google hits something has, then you are in a sad state my friend. I will believe whatever I want to believe, and it will be grounded on sufficient evidence that I can personally justify for myself.

 

[Drew]

I haven't even touched on the big lie. Oh ok, I will now while I'm'a drinking my morning coffee. Aliens. Now certainly you wont make me substantiate the coverup by Washingtom concerning aliens and UFO's, lol. You know who the aliens really are? They are the disembodied spirits of the Nephilim spoken of in Genesis 6, Numbers 13, and a couple other places in scriptures. Evil spirits in other words. Oh, aliens are not disembodied, you say. Well you're right. But why do you think that in thousands of UFO cases, cattle are found mutilated with blood and body organs taken with what appears to be very surgical procedure? AND, many of the UFO abduction reports testify to the fact that their reproductive systems are toyed with by the aliens? They are genetically engineering bodies for the disembodied spirits of the Nephilim. But make no mistake about it, they're evil spirits man. They are not inter-galactical, they are hyper-dimensional spirit beings. One clue, is that (we have hubble) we never see ufo's way out in space, but people report that ufo's do seem to just disappear many times. That's hyper-dimensional. The lie is going to be open contact with "aliens" who come from a distant planet to help us. (but first we have to do away with Christianity, what a coincidence).

If I were to ask you to substantiate these rather remarkable claims, I am 99 % sure you would not be able to produce credible evidence for any of this.

You are effectively asking people to believe things in the absence of credible evidence. However one could make all sorts of claims if one is not required to back them up with evidence. True, the absence of evidence does not always mean that a claim is false. I choose to believe that Jesus rose bodily from the dead even the hard evidence, as I see it at the moment anyway, for this claim is mighty thin indeed.

 

[Drew]

Well frankly the scientific view has been debunked, scientifically. Everything about the earth, and human life for that matter shows evidence of design in that there is too fine of a balance for it all to be chance.

No evolutionist would say that the life forms that exist today came about by chance. This is one of the most pervasive misrepresentations of the theory of evolution. Yes, there are chance mutations but this is by no means the whole story: natural selection is also at work (according to evolutionary theory) and this process is certainly not about "chance"; instead, it is those organisms that are best suited to their environments that survive to reproduce and pass on their genes.

Where is the chance in that?

 

[Edward]

We all agree that heat flows from hot to cold and that eventually the universe will be at a uniform temperature. Please tell me how you know that 13 billion years is long enough for this to happen.

One challenge for the Young Universe position is that it requires that God created a universe which gives us all sorts of reasons for believing it is old when it is not. Does that seem plausible?

Really? 13 billion years?! That's funny brother.

What's the challenge? what's the reasons? You've given me nothing to go on but your opinion.

 

[Edward]

Oh, you guys believe whatever you want to believe. I'm not going to do all of your homework for you. I've said my piece and it's there for consideration by others who may not have such thinking as you guys do.

 

[Doulos Iesou]

Really? 13 billion years?! That's funny brother.

What's the challenge? what's the reasons? You've given me nothing to go on but your opinion.

Given that stars last for billions of years, that isn't an incredible amount of time given the scale of the universe. From a human's perspective it's almost an eternity, but not so with planets or stars.

 

[Doulos Iesou]

Oh, you guys believe whatever you want to believe.

As will you apparently, and I will continue to support my beliefs with facts. So far we haven't seen any credible sources or established facts from you that actually support your positions.

I'm not going to do all of your homework for you.

No need, I'm actually listening to college courses on this very topic lately.

I've said my piece and it's there for consideration by others who may not have such thinking as you guys do.

Those who have an evidenced based epistemology will certainly disregard your statements. Those who want to heed my remarks should continue to do research from credible and reliable sources and decide for themselves, rather than take what I say as truth.

 

[Drew]

Really? 13 billion years?! That's funny brother.

What's the challenge? what's the reasons? You've given me nothing to go on but your opinion.

So I take it you have no actual explanation as to why 13 billion years is enough time for a uniform temperature to be attained. And you expect us to believe that hundreds, nay thousands, of highly educated specialists have overlooked this point. Again, this seems very hard to believe indeed.

Yes, 13 billion years is a long time, but that's hardly a legitimate argument as to why we should expect to see uniform temperature now.

You are implicitly using the "argument from personal inconceivability" - the idea that because one cannot imagine how something could be the case, that is therefore not the case. This is not a valid argument.

Do you not think you owe it to the readers to make an actual case as to why 13 billions should be enough? Yes, to be fair, I need to make the opposite argument. The difference is that there is every reason to expect I will succeed and you will not since basically all experts agree that 13 billion is not enough time. I am not trying to be difficult but you are making a very implausible claim indeed - that the entire set of astrophysicists have all blundered on this rather simple point. Can you not see how that seems hard to believe?

I am quite sure that doulous has the basics right - given that so much energy is bundled up into all these stars that are so far from each other, and flying further apart every second, it will indeed take a long time for the universe to wind down.

 

[twinc]

Really? 13 billion years?! That's funny brother.

What's the challenge? what's the reasons? You've given me nothing to go on but your opinion.

so you know how God should have created - btw Adam was created appx aged 25 at birth and Eve was created after him as God did not want her telling Him how it should be done - twinc

 

[Pizza]

One challenge for the Young Universe position is that it requires that God created a universe which gives us all sorts of reasons for believing it is old when it is not. Does that seem plausible?

Only if God is a liar. Or to put it gently, only if God had a reason to deceive us about the age of the universe - and I can't see why He would.

 

[twinc]

Only if God is a liar. Or to put it gently, only if God had a reason to deceive us about the age of the universe - and I can't see why He would.

so how old was Adam when he was 60...70...80.......twinc

 

[Pizza]

I haven't even touched on the big lie. Oh ok, I will now while I'm'a drinking my morning coffee. Aliens. Now certainly you wont make me substantiate the coverup by Washingtom concerning aliens and UFO's, lol. You know who the aliens really are? They are the disembodied spirits of the Nephilim spoken of in Genesis 6, Numbers 13, and a couple other places in scriptures. Evil spirits in other words. Oh, aliens are not disembodied, you say. Well you're right. But why do you think that in thousands of UFO cases, cattle are found mutilated with blood and body organs taken with what appears to be very surgical procedure? AND, many of the UFO abduction reports testify to the fact that their reproductive systems are toyed with by the aliens? They are genetically engineering bodies for the disembodied spirits of the Nephilim. But make no mistake about it, they're evil spirits man. They are not inter-galactical, they are hyper-dimensional spirit beings. One clue, is that (we have hubble) we never see ufo's way out in space, but people report that ufo's do seem to just disappear many times. That's hyper-dimensional. The lie is going to be open contact with "aliens" who come from a distant planet to help us. (but first we have to do away with Christianity, what a coincidence).

Just WOW Edward. You read a lot of Richard Hoagland's nonsense, don't you?

You threw out a lot of goofy stuff there, let me just address one thing. You mention that hubble (and astronomers in general) don't "see UFOs out in space... but people report (them)..."
That is not proof of "hyperdemensional" travel, it is simply what it is: UFOs are not flying ships from other worlds, they are simply misidentified stars/planes/ballons/satellites, etc.

Also, "Hyperdimensional" is defined as "relating to more than three dimensions". It is not a form of travel, it is hardly an actual word at all, since "more than three dimensions" is theoritical in our understanding of this universe.

I would accuse YOU of trolling, but it is sadly obvious to me that you buy this crap completely.

 

[Pizza]

so how old was Adam when he was 60...70...80.......twinc

You tell me - since you opened the can of worms, not I.

 

[Pizza]

Here is how I see things:

13 billion year old universe? Yea, that sounds about right. I can imagine a 6,000 or 10,000 year old earth, but a 13 billion year old creation is beyond my comprehension. And, it would make sense that creation is beyond my understanding - just like God Himself is beyond my understanding.

Big Bang Theory? I have posted it over and over - but I believe that science is being quite successful in looking back and seeing what God did. The evidence for the Big Bang is strong, and when I read early Genesis and then read about TBBT, they read a lot the same to me. And again, I remember a scientist (Dawkins? Feynman? Not sure) who proclaimed several years ago that he found he was forced to dismiss the big bang theory, because it sounded to HIM too much like "the Bible's account of creation". How does THAT grab ya?

I'm cool with TBBT, and I do think that science is on the right track here - I DO NOT expect them to announce, "Hey we found it - God did it all!" I'm cool with that, too.

A young universe made to look old? The bible tells me that God is NOT the author of confusion. Maybe it's only MY Bible that says that, but mine DOES say it.
Is mine special? Or is science lying to us about how old the universe "looks"? Are they just proposing an old universe cause that is the only way they can make their theory of evolution work? I don't think so - unless all the stars in the sky are within 6,000 light years of me.

• 1 Corinthians 14:33 (KJV)
  For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

 

[jasonc]

why then does the theistic evolutionist believe that adam was given care over the earth that was dying and is dying from the first day it was made? that somehow man has done worse then the earliest theory of the most hostile form of atmosphere on the earth that somehow by natural process on its own(no help from any deity) got on its own to support life with the perfect balance of gases? pure oxygen would make the planet easily prone to fire.

never mind where morals came from. it evolved not by gods design. somehow we don't know yet via speculation as we cant observe how the proto man got his nature and it evolved but that it just did.

what was adams' first sin? when did god decide that until then He would tolerate hate, murder, lust etc? remember the early adam had to have a soul. and those before him either didn't or did. if they didn't then when they lied, killed each other. what exactly was it? not sin? gods desire to have a "good' creation? that he wanted man to be a sinner and hate etc? yet just one day changed his mind?