Day of the unknown hour?

[Zero Link]

The Day and Hour Unknown

36"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,[f] but only the Father. 37As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

This is something I don't get. It describes how everything is pretty much normal:

37As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.

then without them knowing it was coming, the flood swept them away. It says it will be the same for the coming of the Son of Man. How will we not know when this is supposely "after" the Beast's tyranny? How will we be living a normal life right before Son of Man arrives? This is one of the reasons that make me question another beast rising in the future. It puzzles me big time.

:help

 

[Sparkey]

The Day and Hour Unknown

36"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 37As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away.

...It puzzles me big time.

:help

Noah knew. Everybody who entered into the arc (Noah's family) knew. They had been building the boat for quite awhile -They were made a mockery for it. God won't do things without first revealing them (to those with an ear to hear).

Are we building that arc (symbolically?) Some are. Some only mock. It is imperative that we set our differences aside and join together into the One church, the One Spirit, yes? When you ask, "How will we not know when this is supposedly "after" the Beast's tyranny? I agree with you. We will, just like Noah did when the flood came and took them (sinners) all away.

Hope this helps, I won't even try to delve into the deeper things though. I'm lost when I'm told, "Let he who has wisdom understand" and such the like... but I do trust that the Lord will reveal more and more as the day approaches, in fact, I see Him doing so even now.

~Sparrow

 

[whirlwind]

The Day and Hour Unknown

36"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,[f] but only the Father. 37As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

This is something I don't get. It describes how everything is pretty much normal:

[quote:2fjendgz]37As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.

then without them knowing it was coming, the flood swept them away. It says it will be the same for the coming of the Son of Man. How will we not know when this is supposely "after" the Beast's tyranny? How will we be living a normal life right before Son of Man arrives? This is one of the reasons that make me question another beast rising in the future. It puzzles me big time.

:help[/quote:2fjendgz]

The tyranny of the beast is deception. As Sparrowhawke wrote...Noah knew and so will we.

The tribulation is a time of lies...not heads rolling down the street. Satan wants you to worship him and....many will, not knowing they have falling into apostasy by believing he is Christ. That is what the mark of the beast is...to believe his deception.

 

[Paidion]

As we read on, we see in verse 44, the point in comparing the coming of Christ with the coming of the flood in the days of Noah.

Therefore you also must be ready; for the Son of man is coming at a time you do not expect.

 

[whirlwind]

As we read on, we see in verse 44, the point in comparing the coming of Christ with the coming of the flood in the days of Noah.

Therefore you also must be ready; for the Son of man is coming at a time you do not expect.

That is the ultimate object of the lesson. :yes

I used to see not knowing the hour or the day in a different way than I do now. As we, being children of God, are to know the season and there are certain written clues I thought we would be able to tell when it was almost here. Now I wonder....will we? Will we know when the events are taking place or will they be the types of things we would look back on and say...Oh, that's what that was? As He said no one would know...not even the angels, I believe it will literally be..."a time you do not expect."

 

[Matthew24:34]

As we read on, we see in verse 44, the point in comparing the coming of Christ with the coming of the flood in the days of Noah.

Therefore you also must be ready; for the Son of man is coming at a time you do not expect.

That is the ultimate object of the lesson. :yes

I used to see not knowing the hour or the day in a different way than I do now. As we, being children of God, are to know the season and there are certain written clues I thought we would be able to tell when it was almost here. Now I wonder....will we? Will we know when the events are taking place or will they be the types of things we would look back on and say...Oh, that's what that was? As He said no one would know...not even the angels, I believe it will literally be..."a time you do not expect."

Greetings, Whirlwind: Where are WE told that WE are to know the season? Thanks.

Sincerely, Matthew24:34

 

[Paidion]

Greetings, Whirlwind: Where are WE told that WE are to know the season? Thanks.

Yes, Whirlwind. Don't you know that Jesus was not addressing us, but was speaking to His disciples about His coming in 70 A.D.? --- even though the evidence that He came in 70 A.D. is zilch. If He had come then, it would have been known everywhere since at His coming "every eye shall see Him". His coming will be as obvious as the lighting of the sun which shines from the east to the west (Matthew 24:27).

 

[whirlwind]

As we read on, we see in verse 44, the point in comparing the coming of Christ with the coming of the flood in the days of Noah.

Therefore you also must be ready; for the Son of man is coming at a time you do not expect.

That is the ultimate object of the lesson. :yes

I used to see not knowing the hour or the day in a different way than I do now. As we, being children of God, are to know the season and there are certain written clues I thought we would be able to tell when it was almost here. Now I wonder....will we? Will we know when the events are taking place or will they be the types of things we would look back on and say...Oh, that's what that was? As He said no one would know...not even the angels, I believe it will literally be..."a time you do not expect."

Greetings, Whirlwind: Where are WE told that WE are to know the season? Thanks.

Sincerely, Matthew24:34

He instructed us to learn the parable of the fig tree. That parable gives us the season and it wasn't in 70AD. And too, as we are children of the Light, we won't be in darkness, which is in Satan or in his stupor of deception.

 

[Matthew24:34]

Greetings, Whirlwind: Where are WE told that WE are to know the season? Thanks.

Yes, Whirlwind. Don't you know that Jesus was not addressing us, but was speaking to His disciples about His coming in 70 A.D.? --- even though the evidence that He came in 70 A.D. is zilch. If He had come then, it would have been known everywhere since at His coming "every eye shall see Him". His coming will be as obvious as the lighting of the sun which shines from the east to the west (Matthew 24:27).

Greetings, Paidion: Take away A. D. 70 if you must, but Jesus still said "THIS generation will by no means pass till ALL these things take place." Paidion--that very much includes Matthew 24:27! Have you considered the OT statements similar to this--statements that spoke of stars falling from heaven, the heavens being rolled up as a scroll, the earth being moved out of her place? When did THOSE happen, Paidion? Your misunderstanding of prophetic, apocalyptic language which expresses Jesus' coming in physical manifestations and upheavals in the heavens and on the earth is what causes you to totally disregard the truths and the clear meaning of our Lord's words.

You don't SEE the past evidence because you are insisting that His coming happen in a way you have pre-determined. What did Jesus say, Paidion? You don't change the meanings of His words because YOU can't see how they were fulfilled. Furthermore, WE are not to see His coming--those disciples right there with Him were told that THEY were to recognize the SIGNS of His coming as easily as THEY recognized the coming of summer in the budding of the trees! THEY were to know that it was NEAR--at the doors! That is the context! That is something called "audience relevance"--a key and fundamental principle of sound Bible study!

And what is the CONTEXT of "every eye will see Him?" Revelation 1:7 follows Revelation 1:1 and 1:3 which clearly give the time frame for verse 7! John was shown the things which were in HIS day to SHORTLY take place because the time was THEN NEAR! YOU have determined that every eye of every person who has ever lived or who will ever live must see Him simultaneously. That is not what the passage says. The "every eye" statement occurs in close connection to the "tribes of the land" and "those who pierced Him!" The "every eye" involves those who lived in that time which was to then shortly take place.

It is you and other futurists who are guilty of not knowing the day and the hour even though they occurred thousands of years ago! Again, what it is about "this generation" that you do not understand. Jesus did not know the day or the hour but He knew the time frame--HIS generation. You futurists can twist that all you want, but the force of it and the truth of it will not go away!

Sincerely, Matthew24:34

 

[Matthew24:34]

I used to see not knowing the hour or the day in a different way than I do now. As we, being children of God, are to know the season and there are certain written clues I thought we would be able to tell when it was almost here. Now I wonder....will we? Will we know when the events are taking place or will they be the types of things we would look back on and say...Oh, that's what that was? As He said no one would know...not even the angels, I believe it will literally be..."a time you do not expect."[/b]

Greetings, Whirlwind: Where are WE told that WE are to know the season? Thanks.

Sincerely, Matthew24:34

He instructed us to learn the parable of the fig tree. That parable gives us the season and it wasn't in 70AD. And too, as we are children of the Light, we won't be in darkness, which is in Satan or in his stupor of deception.

Whirlwind: Let's do something unusual, shall we? Let's look at the context! WHO was to learn the parable of the fig tree? Jesus told those very disciples right there with Him that THEY were to learn the parable of the fig tree. THEY were to recognize the signs of His coming as easily as THEY recognized the coming of summer in the budding of the fig tree--and ALL the trees Luke adds! THEY were to know when THEY saw the signs that His coming was near--at the doors! Immediately after telling them that, Jesus said "Assuredly, I say to you, THIS generation will by no means pass away till ALL these things take place." AND THEY DID--whether you can see it or not!

Sincerely, Matthew24:34

 

[whirlwind]

Whirlwind: Let's do something unusual, shall we? Let's look at the context!

Now Matthew....that's not nice. :naughty

WHO was to learn the parable of the fig tree?

Believers in the latter days...when the fig tree put forth leaves (1948).

Jesus told those very disciples right there with Him that THEY were to learn the parable of the fig tree. THEY were to recognize the signs of His coming as easily as THEY recognized the coming of summer in the budding of the fig tree--and ALL the trees Luke adds!

Luke 21:29 And He spoke a parable; "Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;

Matthew, the Bible is written to all of us and He was specifically addressing His disciples IN THE END OF DAYS. That would be us. "All the trees" He mentions are people. We are Biblical trees.

THEY were to know when THEY saw the signs that His coming was near--at the doors! Immediately after telling them that, Jesus said "Assuredly, I say to you, THIS generation will by no means pass away till ALL these things take place." AND THEY DID--whether you can see it or not!

Sincerely, Matthew24:34

"This generation" was the generation in which all those things He was teaching about would happen....whether you can see it or not! :yes

 

[Matthew24:34]

Whirlwind: Let's do something unusual, shall we? Let's look at the context!

Now Matthew....that's not nice. :naughty

WHO was to learn the parable of the fig tree?

Believers in the latter days...when the fig tree put forth leaves (1948).

[quote:qvfegkp5] Jesus told those very disciples right there with Him that THEY were to learn the parable of the fig tree. THEY were to recognize the signs of His coming as easily as THEY recognized the coming of summer in the budding of the fig tree--and ALL the trees Luke adds!

Luke 21:29 And He spoke a parable; "Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;

Matthew, the Bible is written to all of us and He was specifically addressing His disciples IN THE END OF DAYS. That would be us. "All the trees" He mentions are people. We are Biblical trees.

THEY were to know when THEY saw the signs that His coming was near--at the doors! Immediately after telling them that, Jesus said "Assuredly, I say to you, THIS generation will by no means pass away till ALL these things take place." AND THEY DID--whether you can see it or not!

Sincerely, Matthew24:34

"This generation" was the generation in which all those things He was teaching about would happen....whether you can see it or not! :yes [/quote:qvfegkp5]

Whirlwind: My friend (and I mean that), I know this is what you have been taught, but it is wrong! None of what you say is there! Don't you see that? There is nothing about 1948, Whirlwind. You are reading that into the text. You are reading into it what you have been taught to see. It is not there! Furthermore, look up Luke 21--Luke adds "and all the trees." Whirlwind, the trees are---TREES! They are NOT people. Where does it say that they are people? It doesn't! That is why I said--let's do something unusual--let's look at the context. Perhaps that wasn't nice--but look, you still haven't looked at the context. THOSE disciples were to simply look at the trees and consider that as easily as THEY recognized the signs of the coming of summer when those TREES began to bud, so THEY were to recognize the signs of His coming and know that it was NEAR--at the doors! That is all that is meant there!

What does "this generation" mean? Please don't refer to the futurist teachers' fabricated meaning here. EVERY time Jesus used that expression, He meant His contemporaries. Always! Please, I exhort you, to look them up! What does "this generation" mean in Matthew 23:36? He was not referring to any other generation except the one in which He spoke those words.

Yes, the Bible is for us, but it is not all TO us, Whirlwind! Jesus was speaking to those flesh-and-blood disciples standing right there with Him about thing that were to personally affect THEM--not us! Have you ever heard of audience relevance? It is important to proper understanding.

I know this sound harsh, but futurists (and I once was one), are so intent on making Bible passages personally concern them that they rip all significance from the people to whom they were first written.
Jesus said YOU over twenty times in Matthew 24. WE are NOT the YE!!!!!

Again, I implore to study to show yourself approved, a workman not needing to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth! Study by looking up every use of "this generation." You will discover that Jesus NEVER used it to refer to any other generation than that first-century, pre-A. D. 70 one!

How can we communicate and how can we study together if we will not accept the plain words in front of us? Had you never heard that Jesus was coming any day now and that Israel's birth as a nation by the U.N. in 1948 was the generation in which He would come, would you see that in Matthew 24? I don't think so. You see it because you have been taught to see it. It is NOT there! You refuse to let "this generation" mean what it always means because taking it that way destroyed your system of eschatology! I know exactly where you are coming from. Thank God He rescued me from that error!

Sincerely, Matthew24:34

 

[parousia70]

If He had come then, it would have been known everywhere since at His coming "every eye shall see Him".

Funny, you don't strike me as someone ignorant of the Biblical precedent of of "every eye shall see" but after a statement like that, it's clear you must be.

Christ's return at AD 67-70 was precisely in the manner and tradition of Yahweh's Old-Testament-era comings. We have countless examples of the Father coming in His great glory during the Old Testamental period (be sure to note the graphic, physical descriptions and explicit "visual" connotations of Yahweh's comings):

[On Yahweh's coming to Egypt -- early 700s BC] Behold, Yahweh rides on a swift cloud, and comes to Egypt: and the idols of Egypt shall tremble at his presence; and the heart of Egypt shall melt in the midst of it. I will stir up the Egyptians against the Egyptians (Isaiah 19:1-2)

[On Yahweh's coming during the Maccabean Period] For I have bent Judah for me, I have filled the bow with Ephraim; and I will stir up your sons, Zion, against your sons, Greece, and will make you as the sword of a mighty man. Yahweh shall be seen over them, and his arrow shall go forth as the lightning; and the Lord Yahweh will blow the trumpet, and will go with whirlwinds of the south. Yahweh of Hosts will defend them; and they shall devour, and shall tread down the sling-stones; and they shall drink, and make a noise as through wine; and they shall be filled like bowls, like the corners of the altar. Yahweh their God will save them in that day (Zechariah 9:13-16)

[On Yahweh's coming to Israel for Babylonian Exile - 6th Century BC] Therefore thus says the Lord Yahweh: Because you are turbulent more than the nations that are round about you, and have not walked in my statutes, neither have kept my ordinances, neither have done after the ordinances of the nations that are round about you; therefore thus says the Lord Yahweh: Behold, I, even I, am against you; and I will execute judgments in the midst of you before the eyes of the nations. I will do in you that which I have not done, and whereunto I will not do any more the like, because of all your abominations (Ez 5:7-9)

[On Yahweh's coming to Israel for Babylonian Exile - 6th Century BC] As I live, says the Lord Yahweh, surely with a mighty hand, and with an outstretched arm, and with wrath poured out, will I be king over you: and I will bring you out from the peoples, and will gather you out of the countries in which you are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with an outstretched arm, and with wrath poured out; and I will bring you into the wilderness of the peoples, and there will I enter into judgment with you face to face...Hear the word of Yahweh: Thus says the Lord Yahweh, Behold, I will kindle a fire in you, and it shall devour every green tree in you, and every dry tree: the flaming flame shall not be quenched, and all faces from the south to the north shall be burnt thereby. All flesh shall see that I, Yahweh, have kindled it...Thus says Yahweh: Behold, I am against you, and will draw forth my sword out of its sheath, and will cut off from you the righteous and the wicked. Seeing then that I will cut off from you the righteous and the wicked, therefore shall my sword go forth out of its sheath against all flesh from the south to the north: and all flesh shall know that I, Yahweh, have drawn forth my sword out of its sheath (Ez 20:33-35,47-48; 21:3-5)

Jehovah hath made bare His holy arm before the eyes of all nations (Isa 52:10)


Paidion, you need to supply us with the Bibllical instruction you have for interpereting "Yahweh rides a swift cloud...and was seen by the eyes of all nations" in POLAR OPPOSITE FASHION to "He is coming on the clouds and every eye shall see"

His coming will be as obvious as the lighting of the sun which shines from the east to the west (Matthew 24:27).

Actually, it's Lightning, not the light of the sun:
24:27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be( NKJ)

Lightning is, of course, a LOCAL event.

 

[Osgiliath]

Originally posted by parousia70
Funny, you don't strike me as someone ignorant of the Biblical precedent of of "every eye shall see" but after a statement like that, it's clear you must be.

Way to patronize there parousia.

The arrogance is astounding. I guess there has been a 2,000 year conspiracy theory, or that 2,000 years of Christians have been too dumb to get it. What makes you guys so special that you get what nearly everyone for the last 2,000 years, including the Apostles, didn't get? Is the Holy Spirit revealing this secret truth to you? I guess what you're really saying is that for 2,000 years the Holy Spirit allowed the Church to believe and promote a lie, but is revealing the truth to you. You really think you're that special; huh? If the view you're advocating is true, then Christianity has been wrong, and by implication has declared Jesus as a failure and a false prophet for 2,000 years!

 

[Matthew24:34]

Actually, preterism IS the historical view of many. People only began to forget that when Darby came on the scene in the mid 1800s. One of the greatest harms to biblical truth foisted upon Christianity was the Scofield heresy Bible. Many have been deceived by it--myself included. I have thrown mine in the trash where it belongs!

Futurists have been taught to believe that their futurists views have been around for many years. That is a falsehood!

 

[parousia70]

What makes you guys so special that you get what nearly everyone for the last 2,000 years, including the Apostles, didn't get?

Make no mistake, the apostles got it.

So, instead of wasting a perfectly good post by telling me I'm arrogant, address the issue at hand:

Show us your Biblical instruction for interpreting "God rides a swift cloud....and was seen by the eyes of all flesh and all nations" in polar opposite fashion to "He is coming on the clouds and every eye shall see"

 

[whirlwind]

What makes you guys so special that you get what nearly everyone for the last 2,000 years, including the Apostles, didn't get?

Make no mistake, the apostles got it.

So, instead of wasting a perfectly good post by telling me I'm arrogant, address the issue at hand:

Show us your Biblical instruction for interpreting "God rides a swift cloud....and was seen by the eyes of all flesh and all nations" in polar opposite fashion to "He is coming on the clouds and every eye shall see"

Please provide chapter and verse with your quotes. It would be greatly appreciated. :yes

What clouds does He come on that "every eye shall see?" He arrives IN US. We are His "so great a cloud of witnesses." [Hebrews 12:1] He arrives with the clouds of folks that have gone before us and gathers the clouds of witnesses that will be here at His second Advent.

The "swift cloud" the "LORD rideth upon," [Isaiah 19:1] is the same cloud Ezekiel saw. :o I can't comment on "and was seen by the eyes of all flesh and all nations" in connection to the swift cloud....please provide chapter and verse. Do the two go together?

 

[parousia70]

Please provide chapter and verse with your quotes. It would be greatly appreciated. :yes

What clouds does He come on that "every eye shall see?"

The "swift cloud" the "LORD rideth upon," [Isaiah 19:1] is the same cloud Ezekiel saw.

Where is the Historical evidence of The Egyptians trembling at His presence in that cloud that was visible to all Egyptians as Is 19:1 states?

I can't comment on "and was seen by the eyes of all flesh and all nations" in connection to the swift cloud....please provide chapter and verse. Do the two go together?

By your name, I would think you would know already, but ok,

Lets first connect Clouds to Whirlwinds:

Jeremiah 4:13
“ Behold, he shall come up like clouds, And his chariots like a whirlwind. His horses are swifter than eagles. Woe to us, for we are plundered!â€Â

Ezekiel 1:4
Then I looked, and behold, a whirlwind was coming out of the north, a great cloud with raging fire engulfing itself; and brightness was all around it and radiating out of its midst like the color of amber, out of the midst of the fire.

# Nahum 1:3
The LORD is slow to anger and great in power, And will not at all acquit the wicked.The LORD has His way In the whirlwind and in the storm, And the clouds are the dust of His feet.

Now after establishing that the Whirlwinds and Clouds of God are synonymous, lets connect them to the being seen by the nations part:

For I have bent Judah for me, I have filled the bow with Ephraim; and I will stir up your sons, Zion, against your sons, Greece, and will make you as the sword of a mighty man. Yahweh shall be seen over them, and his arrow shall go forth as the lightning; and the Lord Yahweh will blow the trumpet, and will go with whirlwinds of the south.(Zechariah 9:13-16)

Show us the Historical evidence of Yahweh being SEEN over Greece in that Cloudy Whirlwind.
Surely Such a hugely VISIBLE event of God being seen by an ENTIRE COUNTRY would have been recorded in the annuls of History somewhere, yes?

Again, now that we KNOW, by clear Biblical teaching that Clouds are the Mode of Transportation of God, please show us the Historical evidence of God Kindling a fire being SEEN BY ALL FLESH in the 6th Century BC as stated here:

Hear the word of Yahweh: Thus says the Lord Yahweh, Behold, I will kindle a fire in you, and it shall devour every green tree in you, and every dry tree: the flaming flame shall not be quenched, and all faces from the south to the north shall be burnt thereby. All flesh shall see that I, Yahweh, have kindled it...Thus says Yahweh: Behold, I am against you, and will draw forth my sword out of its sheath, and will cut off from you the righteous and the wicked. Seeing then that I will cut off from you the righteous and the wicked, therefore shall my sword go forth out of its sheath against all flesh from the south to the north: and all flesh shall know that I, Yahweh, have drawn forth my sword out of its sheath (Ez 20:33-35,47-48; 21:3-5)

Clearly, a historical event of God's of God's actual Sword being drawn that was seen visibly by ALL FLESH would have been recorded in some extra biblical historical account, yes?

Or, please show us the Historical event of The eyes of all nations seeing God's VISIBLE Arm as the Bible states it was here:
Jehovah hath made bare His holy arm before the eyes of all nations (Isa 52:10)

Surely, WW, Such a GLOBALLY VISIBLE event of Gods Holy Arm being seen by the physical eyes of ALL NATIONS would have been recorded somewhere besides scripture, yes?????

WHERE is the Historical evidence of these MASSIVELY, even GLOBALLY, VISIBLE events of God being SEEN?

 

[Matthew24:34]

Please provide chapter and verse with your quotes. It would be greatly appreciated. :yes

What clouds does He come on that "every eye shall see?"

The "swift cloud" the "LORD rideth upon," [Isaiah 19:1] is the same cloud Ezekiel saw.

Where is the Historical evidence of The Egyptians trembling at His presence in that cloud that was visible to all Egyptians as Is 19:1 states?

I can't comment on "and was seen by the eyes of all flesh and all nations" in connection to the swift cloud....please provide chapter and verse. Do the two go together?

By your name, I would think you would know already, but ok,

Lets first connect Clouds to Whirlwinds:

Jeremiah 4:13
“ Behold, he shall come up like clouds, And his chariots like a whirlwind. His horses are swifter than eagles. Woe to us, for we are plundered!â€Â

Ezekiel 1:4
Then I looked, and behold, a whirlwind was coming out of the north, a great cloud with raging fire engulfing itself; and brightness was all around it and radiating out of its midst like the color of amber, out of the midst of the fire.

# Nahum 1:3
The LORD is slow to anger and great in power, And will not at all acquit the wicked.The LORD has His way In the whirlwind and in the storm, And the clouds are the dust of His feet.

Now after establishing that the Whirlwinds and Clouds of God are synonymous, lets connect them to the being seen by the nations part:

For I have bent Judah for me, I have filled the bow with Ephraim; and I will stir up your sons, Zion, against your sons, Greece, and will make you as the sword of a mighty man. Yahweh shall be seen over them, and his arrow shall go forth as the lightning; and the Lord Yahweh will blow the trumpet, and will go with whirlwinds of the south.(Zechariah 9:13-16)

Show us the Historical evidence of Yahweh being SEEN over Greece in that Cloudy Whirlwind.
Surely Such a hugely VISIBLE event of God being seen by an ENTIRE COUNTRY would have been recorded in the annuls of History somewhere, yes?

Again, now that we KNOW, by clear Biblical teaching that Clouds are the Mode of Transportation of God, please show us the Historical evidence of God Kindling a fire being SEEN BY ALL FLESH in the 6th Century BC as stated here:

Hear the word of Yahweh: Thus says the Lord Yahweh, Behold, I will kindle a fire in you, and it shall devour every green tree in you, and every dry tree: the flaming flame shall not be quenched, and all faces from the south to the north shall be burnt thereby. All flesh shall see that I, Yahweh, have kindled it...Thus says Yahweh: Behold, I am against you, and will draw forth my sword out of its sheath, and will cut off from you the righteous and the wicked. Seeing then that I will cut off from you the righteous and the wicked, therefore shall my sword go forth out of its sheath against all flesh from the south to the north: and all flesh shall know that I, Yahweh, have drawn forth my sword out of its sheath (Ez 20:33-35,47-48; 21:3-5)

Clearly, a historical event of God's of God's actual Sword being drawn that was seen visibly by ALL FLESH would have been recorded in some extra biblical historical account, yes?

Or, please show us the Historical event of The eyes of all nations seeing God's VISIBLE Arm as the Bible states it was here:
Jehovah hath made bare His holy arm before the eyes of all nations (Isa 52:10)

Surely, WW, Such a GLOBALLY VISIBLE event of Gods Holy Arm being seen by the physical eyes of ALL NATIONS would have been recorded somewhere besides scripture, yes?????

WHERE is the Historical evidence of these MASSIVELY, even GLOBALLY, VISIBLE events of God being SEEN?

Thanks for those excellent OT examples, parousia!

Matthew24:34

 

[whirlwind]

[quote="Matthew24:34":1qpvmz7d]

Whirlwind: Let's do something unusual, shall we? Let's look at the context!

Now Matthew....that's not nice. :naughty

WHO was to learn the parable of the fig tree?

Believers in the latter days...when the fig tree put forth leaves (1948).

[quote:1qpvmz7d] Jesus told those very disciples right there with Him that THEY were to learn the parable of the fig tree. THEY were to recognize the signs of His coming as easily as THEY recognized the coming of summer in the budding of the fig tree--and ALL the trees Luke adds!

Luke 21:29 And He spoke a parable; "Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;

Matthew, the Bible is written to all of us and He was specifically addressing His disciples IN THE END OF DAYS. That would be us. "All the trees" He mentions are people. We are Biblical trees.

THEY were to know when THEY saw the signs that His coming was near--at the doors! Immediately after telling them that, Jesus said "Assuredly, I say to you, THIS generation will by no means pass away till ALL these things take place." AND THEY DID--whether you can see it or not!

Sincerely, Matthew24:34

"This generation" was the generation in which all those things He was teaching about would happen....whether you can see it or not! :yes [/quote:1qpvmz7d]

Whirlwind: My friend (and I mean that), I know this is what you have been taught, but it is wrong! None of what you say is there! Don't you see that? There is nothing about 1948, Whirlwind. You are reading that into the text. You are reading into it what you have been taught to see. It is not there! Furthermore, look up Luke 21--Luke adds "and all the trees." Whirlwind, the trees are---TREES! They are NOT people. Where does it say that they are people? It doesn't! That is why I said--let's do something unusual--let's look at the context. Perhaps that wasn't nice--but look, you still haven't looked at the context. THOSE disciples were to simply look at the trees and consider that as easily as THEY recognized the signs of the coming of summer when those TREES began to bud, so THEY were to recognize the signs of His coming and know that it was NEAR--at the doors! That is all that is meant there![/quote:1qpvmz7d]


Isaiah 55:12 For ye shall go out with joy, and be led forth with peace: the mountains and the hills shall break forth before you into singing, and all the trees of the field shall clap their hands.

Mountains are nations, hills are smaller countries, the field is the world and we are...the trees of the world. Literal trees don't clap their hands. I don't have time this afternoon but later I'll give you more information about the "parable of the fig tree."

What does "this generation" mean? Please don't refer to the futurist teachers' fabricated meaning here. EVERY time Jesus used that expression, He meant His contemporaries. Always! Please, I exhort you, to look them up! What does "this generation" mean in Matthew 23:36? He was not referring to any other generation except the one in which He spoke those words.

There are still scribes and Pharisees teaching false doctrine, still generations of vipers in this world. Until they are gone the final generation isn't ended.

Yes, the Bible is for us, but it is not all TO us, Whirlwind! Jesus was speaking to those flesh-and-blood disciples standing right there with Him about thing that were to personally affect THEM--not us! Have you ever heard of audience relevance? It is important to proper understanding.

I know this sound harsh, but futurists (and I once was one), are so intent on making Bible passages personally concern them that they rip all significance from the people to whom they were first written.
Jesus said YOU over twenty times in Matthew 24. WE are NOT the YE!!!!!

Again, I implore to study to show yourself approved, a workman not needing to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth! Study by looking up every use of "this generation." You will discover that Jesus NEVER used it to refer to any other generation than that first-century, pre-A. D. 70 one!

How can we communicate and how can we study together if we will not accept the plain words in front of us? Had you never heard that Jesus was coming any day now and that Israel's birth as a nation by the U.N. in 1948 was the generation in which He would come, would you see that in Matthew 24? I don't think so. You see it because you have been taught to see it. It is NOT there! You refuse to let "this generation" mean what it always means because taking it that way destroyed your system of eschatology! I know exactly where you are coming from. Thank God He rescued me from that error!

Sincerely, Matthew24:34

Dearest Matthew....everything I see in the Bible points to future events.