Day of the unknown hour?

[sheshisown]

:waving ~ Sparrow

My question was, "Can we shorten the day" or can this only be done by God. If so, how?

By prayer Joshua had the day lengthened for Isreal in battle by our Father~

By prayer Hezekiah requaested and recieved a lengthen life by eleven years.

However~ all was done of course by God alone, who answered the requests of men.

sheshisown~

 

[Sparkey]

Thanks SheWhoIsHis,

My point was directed a little closer to us than those far away men of God, yet I do agree with you. It is God who is all in all. I also hope you understand that I do respect your authority as a moderator and was trying to follow your gentle (and rightly placed) admonishment to return to topic. ;)

The point that I was trying to make when I asked if "gnats were being strained" here was that we were looking into minutia and straying from the topic.

Are gnats being strained here? I'm lost in the conversation. What is it about?

The unknown hour? Did nobody want to pick up my observation about the the length of the Jewish day?

~Sparrowhawke

The topic: Day of the unknown hour.
I pointed out that the length of the day determined the hour and said that this was done purposefully by God. I further pointed to a method that we as saints could effect the "unknown hour". It seems that my comments are not welcome and I don't have a big problem with departing the thread, but I would ask that it continue to be monitored and closed if it strays against the line in your good judgment.

~Sparrowhawke

 

[whirlwind]

Congratulations, then you are not the 'Jerusalem' of Luke 13:34. This is a good thing! You don't want to be the 'Jerusalem' of Luke 13:34, or what part of 'and ye would not!' do you not understand?

Jerusalem is Jerususalem Sinthesis. Say you have five children and two of those children killed and stoned whatever you taught them. They are still...children of Sinthesis. The other three children absorbed your teachings and lived them. They too are your children. At some point those "two," who you continue to feed at your table, will finally absorb the meal and SEE what you, as their father, have been teaching. That is the point, when "their time come," when they shall say....'Blesssed is He That cometh in the name of the LORD.'"

Disregarding the typo ;) , your example makes my point even though it does not directly correspond with the parable of Luke 13:34. Clearly you don't really believe that 'Jerusalem is Jerusalem', because you are dividing Jerusalem into five 'children'. The only Jerusalem that existed when Jesus gave us this parable was rebellious and 'would not' come under Jesus' teaching. This rebellious Jerusalem was destroyed at the time of the end, circa 70AD, physically-literally but more importantly spiritually-figuratively. However, never fear, God gave us a New Jerusalem which is not in rebellion, and we belong to this city.

Do you mean too many "sssss" in Blessed? :biglol I didn't see that and even when you mentioned a typo...I still had to really look (old eyes here) : .

Actually Jerusalem is many, not one, so the analogy of five will work. As the temple is all of us so is Jerusalem, His holy city, all of us.

So, I believe that I understand the "ye would not," as well as understand who Jerusalem is.

You'll get no argument from me there.

Revelation 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.[/b]

Again, this example makes my point. You have just correctly differentiated 'Jerusalem' and the 'New Jerusalem'.

When do you become a resident in good standing in Jerusalem Sinthesis?


Sorry....I just read further into the thread and realized....I'm keeping it off topic....trying to strain those pesky gnats.

 

[Sinthesis]

The Day and Hour Unknown

36"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,[f] but only the Father. 37As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

This is something I don't get. It describes how everything is pretty much normal:

[quote:12wjc2ia]37As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.

then without them knowing it was coming, the flood swept them away. It says it will be the same for the coming of the Son of Man. How will we not know when this is supposely "after" the Beast's tyranny? How will we be living a normal life right before Son of Man arrives? This is one of the reasons that make me question another beast rising in the future. It puzzles me big time.

:help[/quote:12wjc2ia]

Does anyone have an agile enough noggin to apply what lies below to the original topic above?

The ancient Jewish wedding traditions are not widely known today. However, the traditional themes in a Jewish wedding is a pattern of the biblical rapture description. The wedding opens with the betrothal, the perspective Bridegroom covenants and pays the price for His bride, and then he leaves and his bride is sanctified (set aside to wait).

While the Bridegroom is absent an indeterminate time, there is no preconditioned event that would have to take place before he will return to marry her. Sometimes it would be a yearlong separation. Meanwhile~ she would prepare her trousseau, making herself ready for their marriage. In Matthew 25 the brides are awaiting the bridegrooms return and this is a pattern of this Jewish tradition. The bride expects his return but does not know when it will come; even the groom does not know the day nor the hour that he will marry his bride. Only the father of the bridegroom can say when the wedding day will happen.

Also during his absence from his bride, the groom is working on the bridal chamber that he is adding to his father’s house. Then unexpectedly, the father would tell the bridegroom to go and get his bride, often it was in the middle of the night, at midnight, and the friends of the bridegroom would go with him. There was a shout given to make the bride aware that her bridegroom was coming. Then she and her bridesmaids would take their lamps into the street and meet the bridegroom and the wedding party there. The bridegroom would take his bride to the wedding chamber that he had prepared and consummate their marriage. Then the bride groom would appear to the waiting wedding party and announce that she was his wife to his father and the guests~ and the seven day wedding feast would begin.
:D

 

[whirlwind]

Jesus taught of "this generation," in [Matthew 24:34]. The teaching was in response to the questioning of the disciples who asked...."tell us, when shall these things be and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?" He said that (they/we) would not know the day and hour, "of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but My Father only." The question is...what is meant by the day and hour in relation to the end of this age?

Matthew 24:38-39 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Noah entered the ark and still...knew not...until the flood came. This is our example of what will be. We, believers as Noah, enter into our ark (our rest....see below) and wait. We don't know when the flood will come but we strengthen our belief until that hour.

Hebrews 3:7-11 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, "To day if ye will hear His voice. Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness: When your fathers tempted Me, proved Me, and saw My works forty years. Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known My ways. So I sware in My wrath, They shall not enter into My rest.")

3:18-4:1 And to whom sware He that they should not enter into His rest, but to them that believed not? So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief. Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into His rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

In the generation of the days of Noah, unbelievers couldn't enter the ark. In the generation of the days of provocation and temptation in the wilderness when God led Israel out of Egypt, unbelievers couldn't enter into His rest (the ark). In this generation we too (will/are) facing days of temptation and provocation (Satan's great tribulation?) in the wilderness of our minds. "Nothing is new under the sun," so....in this generation unbelievers will not be able to enter His rest/ark/salvation/truth.

In Matthew we see that the days (plural), of Noah before the flood are comparable to our days (plural) before the tribulation, the flood of Satan's deception. Then...we see THE DAY as being when Noah entered the ark and THE DAY as being when we "hear His voice," and don't "harden our hearts." Then is when we enter the ark...His rest. That is our DAY. We aren't, or won't be, aware that it is that DAY. What of the hour?

Matthew 24:40-42 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

24:43-44 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

The "day" will be when we enter His rest, the ark....belief in Him, and that is also when our "day of temptation in the wilderness," begins. [Hebrews 3:8] As God takes us from the world and into the wilderness, Satan tries to tempt us back into the world/Egypt. But the "hour" is when the flood comes. The "hour" is.....

Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of My patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Luke 11:4 And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil.' "

Will we know when that hour is upon us? Perhaps we'll know when that specific time is but we must remember....Satan works with deception and when one is deceived it is usually after the fact before we say...oh my, I've been taken! For that reason Jesus tells us....."such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh."

 

[Sparkey]

The Day and Hour Unknown:
:help

Does anyone have an agile enough noggin to apply what lies below to the original topic above?

The ancient Jewish wedding traditions are not widely known today. However, the traditional themes in a Jewish wedding is a pattern of the biblical rapture description. The wedding opens with the betrothal, the perspective Bridegroom covenants and pays the price for His bride, and then he leaves and his bride is sanctified (set aside to wait).

While the Bridegroom is absent an indeterminate time, there is no preconditioned event that would have to take place before he will return to marry her. Sometimes it would be a yearlong separation. Meanwhile~ she would prepare her trousseau, making herself ready for their marriage. In Matthew 25 the brides are awaiting the bridegrooms return and this is a pattern of this Jewish tradition. The bride expects his return but does not know when it will come; even the groom does not know the day nor the hour that he will marry his bride. Only the father of the bridegroom can say when the wedding day will happen.

Also during his absence from his bride, the groom is working on the bridal chamber that he is adding to his father’s house. Then unexpectedly, the father would tell the bridegroom to go and get his bride, often it was in the middle of the night, at midnight, and the friends of the bridegroom would go with him. There was a shout given to make the bride aware that her bridegroom was coming. Then she and her bridesmaids would take their lamps into the street and meet the bridegroom and the wedding party there. The bridegroom would take his bride to the wedding chamber that he had prepared and consummate their marriage. Then the bride groom would appear to the waiting wedding party and announce that she was his wife to his father and the guests~ and the seven day wedding feast would begin.
:D

That is the question, IMOO (in my opinion only) well asked, in a timely manner, and fitly suited.
Thank you. I don't know how to escape your conclusion. May I only comment that is is good to me when I hear a comment that I can neither gainsay nor resist.

~Sparrow

:waving ~ Sparrow

My question was, "Can we shorten the day" or can this only be done by God. If so, how?

• By prayer Joshua had the day lengthened for Isreal in battle by our Father~[/*:m:1pbifbzu]
• By prayer Hezekiah requaested and recieved a lengthen life by eleven years.[/*:m:1pbifbzu]
• However~ all was done of course by God alone, who answered the requests of men.[/*:m:1pbifbzu]

sheshisown~

I agree!

But shhhhh.... sacred secrets: I think we can shorten the day by turning our eyes (together and jointly fitted) upon Him saying, I have heard your voice, your song: "The fig tree putteth forth her green figs, and the vines with the tender grape give a good smell. Arise, my love, my fair one, and come away." We could use the words, "Your servant hears, Lord." also (if that is more comfortable in the mouth) - all the same... He judges hearts.

The kisses you have given to your Savior, Lord and King have sweetened me in the hearing of it.

Sparrowhawke

 

[Super Kal]

the Bible has always used "day" and "hour" to represent a certain time... but does the Bible ever mention the week, or month, or year?... no, it doesn't. all of the Bible references to time is based on "day" and "hour"... the only time we see the term "time" used n the Bible is Mark 13:32-37, in verse 33:

"take ye heed, watch and pray, for ye not know when the time is"

however, when we put this into the context of Mark 13:32-37, Christ is not talking about the general time, He is talking about the time of the day and hour... I've heard the notion from many pre-tribbers that since we can't know the "time" we're not supposed to watch... that's not what Mark 13:37 tells us.

what did Christ tell us?
Matt. 24:36
"but of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels in heaven, but my Father only"

what day and hour though?

Matt. 24:29
"Immediately after the tribulation of those days..."

what is Christ saying?... He's saying we won't know the specific time, but He did give us the general time (Matthew 24:29-31)

 

[Vic C.]

Hey, I'm just passing through, but I do have a question.

Sparrow, you said:

Am I the only one here who thinks that God is able to confound those who consider themselves wise and that He has purposefully hidden certain things? Unto God is the secret(s) and unto us is what is revealed. He has designed the length of the hour so that it isn't 60 minutes (contrary to popular opinion). The hour is hidden in mystery but the length of the day can be lengthened or shortened.

My question was twofold: First, do any agree (or disagree) with the idea about Jewish length of hours being tied to the day itself? and secondly, "Can we shorten the day" or can this only be done by God. If Scripture shows that "we can" do so, how?

~Sparrowhawke
"The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law."

Is this in reference to Jesus saying:

Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Are we reading this as if He is talking about the actual changing of time (duration or # of hours, etc.) in a day (or days) and not about shortening the number of days in the tribulation?

 

[Sparkey]

"Vic C." said Hey, I'm just passing through, but I do have a question.

Sparrow, you said:

Am I the only one here who thinks that God is able to confound those who consider themselves wise and that He has purposefully hidden certain things? Unto God is the secret(s) and unto us is what is revealed. He has designed the length of the hour so that it isn't 60 minutes (contrary to popular opinion). The hour is hidden in mystery but the length of the day can be lengthened or shortened.

My question was twofold: First, do any agree (or disagree) with the idea about Jewish length of hours being tied to the day itself? and secondly, "Can we shorten the day" or can this only be done by God. If Scripture shows that "we can" do so, how?

~Sparrowhawke
"The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law."

Is this in reference to Jesus saying:

Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

• Yes, as the Lord shows you things for me to consider -- it really looks like that fits in perfectly![/*:m:d441cl1v]

Are we reading this as if He is talking about the actual changing of time (duration or # of hours, etc.) in a day (or days) and not about shortening the number of days in the tribulation?[/quote]

• Again, YES! But hmmmm.... maybe both? He is pretty smart isn't He? And I think we can find a scripture or two about He delights to show men who are wise intheir own sight to be foolish and to show the 'simple' who are in Him to be wise.[/*:m:d441cl1v]

<thus concludeth the Word thru our brother Vic C.> Thanks Vic C. ----> here's another recent gleaning from the Word:
_______________________________________________________

but first.... SPARROWS LOVE POPCORN!!! SHHHH, I am undone! Don't tell anyone to what lengths I'll go for popcorn.... I'll make ya a deal ... Vic C. I'll "fetch" scripture for popcorn and trade ya anytime you want? Please? It isn't a good thing to see, making a bird beg like this but do I care?
_______________________________________________________


Vic -- this isn't something that I've been taught by somebody so it might not be so smooth.
There is a parable about our NOT knowing the time of his coming. Is it in the first "watch" or in the second "watch" or in third watch? Right? I could pull out my concordance and get it - but everybody knows that one. Probably worth reading with a critical eye though.

Well then I'm wondering about this - and haven't had time enough to study it < "I don't want to hear any of your excuses!" an echo in my head says to me, an excuse, I know> and I know that God "can't be pinned down" in these things like I tried to do when I thought I was brilliant and figured out that the world would end in 1988 because it didn't.

So to that there comes a scripture that I hadn't counted on - Psalms 90 seems to say that a "watch" is a 1,000 years and although that doesn't make sense to me exactly it does make more sense than "Figs = 1948 + One Generation 40 = 1988," at least in retrospect.

Here is the scripture specific but the Psalm (song) general is illuminating too. Vic - pardon me for "teaching" here but since this is a public board I feel the need. Newbs need instruction as do I and it helps me personally sometimes to "put my thoughts out there" so I'll wander a bit with a "story" about who else? me. My dad died at 57 years of age and I've worked it out in my head that my life expectancy according to my family history and actuarial tables and all that (used to work as a computer systems analyst / tech at a $5 billion insurance co.) - but worked it out in my genius stupid mind that I would die pretty quick or could at least reasonably be expected to. So when I'm reading in Psalms 90 < the Lord led me to a church to check it out last Sunday - and they preached it > one of the things that was shown was: Psa 90:12 "So teach us to number our days, that we may apply our hearts unto wisdom."

So that one caught my "ear" and there is too much for me to understand in one bite there too! A real hidden source of good data < the computer analyst in my says > so I "flag" that for reading later too like the true procrastinator I can sometimes be. And also there are scriptures that apply to other things too and this one kinda "hits" me: Psa 90:4 For a thousand years in Your eyes are as a day, yesterday, when it passes, and as a watch in the night.

Now the way the church I went to (for the first time) taught it was that this verse demonstrates the length of vision that the Lord has. The pastor held up his left arm like he had an invisible dance partner - to show us his forearm. He pointed to the crook in his elbow and asked us to imagine the Lord looking at the earth in this matter - the start of a thousand year period would be there near his elbow and we - "us today" would be down at the other end of the timeline - near his fingertips. We were being shown that the Lord sees us this way - and remembers all the promises made to our ancestors and family history from a 1,000 years ago when He thinks and considers us. And I was struck by the Majesty and magnified the Lord with him in my spirit. And then later I'm like, "huh?" "Did the bible say something about a "watch" in the night?"

So, the pastor continues to point to the scripture and the 90th song and I notice this one is a "song of Moses" and am wondering about that too -- here's verse 1: Psa 90:1 A Prayer of Moses, the Man of God. O Lord, You have been our dwelling-place in all generations.

And then the pastor says that we've been taught about the length of our time allotted on the earth and some think that we are somehow guaranteed a certain period - like maybe the word suggests we "should" be able to live on the earth for 70 years. So he brings: Psa 90:10 The days of our years are seventy; and if any by strength live eighty years, yet their pride is labor and sorrow; for it soon passes, and we fly away.

The lord knows my mind at any given moment --- and to Him nothing is impossible and I know that He's only suggesting things to let me see as a quick glimpse and I also know that my eyesight is pretty poor but my lovesight isn't. My ears pick up and I am hearing answers to prayer about mysteries and sacred secrets. Not like I can say OH!!! OH!!! Urethra!! I've Found it (to quote Kelly Bundy from 'Married with Children' TV series) but because he is showing me something maybe?

First, I don't have to die at 56, second - there is no guarantee that I'll die at 70 either. I have asked the LORD in faith and believe this prayer has "risen up" that He lengthen my days to see a certain thing promised accomplished - I've asked to catch a glimpse of the "bride" and to hear her voice as she starts the firststeps of the procession as she is walking on the earth <sorry for my feeble speech - I can't do it justice - can't say it 'right' -it is too holy for speech> because there are daughters many and queens but "she" is above them all --- so I'm in Hope always to see this -- but <there> --- right there! He said that by strength "my" years could be 10 more years also. "Psa 90:10 The days of our years are seventy; and if any by strength live eighty years, yet their pride is labor and sorrow; for it soon passes, and we fly away." I'm hearing the first notes of the song that flows between Jesus and his Bride, the "body of Christ" even now - so I get pretty excited sometimes. I hear it in you and in everybody - but maybe that's just my earnest desire singing song?? I think no - I can't make something this beautiful! The truth of this causes me to turn my eyes to Him in wonder and to make me "magnify the Lord Almighty" and to look wondrously around me at my brothers and sisters with a new VISION.

We know what the bible means when it speaks of a "watch in the night" -- the guards take shifts. The angels are the guards in a spiritual sense and there are "assigned times" -- so the Lord is dropping all these things into the fertile soil which is my mind ('cause HE BOUGHT IT that's why -- so mockers can just shut up about that - I love him and don't care if I look the fool to men. HE's my vindicator, not me) <sorry Vic - more "voices" in my head brother - not meant to you but to another whose reading the truth of what I am saying> I'm kinda free with my thoughts aren't I? Didn't used to be.

Anyway if you appreciate this? I think you need to pop one of those popcorn kernels up and let the wind catch it and bring it my way!

Love,
~Sparrow

Oh! And sharing my treasure is my way of "greeting you with an holy kiss" too just so's-ya-know.

And the Lord shall cause His voice to be heard and you shall have a song in the night. Come to the Mountain of the Lord! See His glory and His might.

 

[Vic C.]

Heh? Oh yeah! But I only have chocolate covered popcorn at the moment.

Ahynyway...

Again, YES! But hmmmm.... maybe both? He is pretty smart isn't He? And I think we can find a scripture or two about He delights to show men who are wise in their own sight to be foolish and to show the 'simple' who are in Him to be wise.

Yes, there have been a few others who have passed through here teaching it's the hours in a day that are to be shortened (cut short). For what it's worth, that interpretation violates the meaning of the verse in it's immediate context. IMO, of course. The context is a 'period of tribulation' and it's my belief that we are being told the period (days, number of days) must be cut short or else all flesh would be destroyed one way or another, cease to exist. So as God, He steps in and saves HIS people as HE avenges in our behalf.

Could the same be accomplished by reducing the number of hours in a day? Sure, it could, but why bother? Think of what God would have to do in lieu of simply reducing the numbers of days in this "period of tribulation'. First, He has to speed up the rotation of the earth, then HE has to deal with how this affects gravity, how it affects the growth cycle of plant life, how it affects life in general?

Sure, HE's God! He can do it! But wouldn't it be easier for HIM to come from Heaven, blow a trumpet, save HIS people and say, "Ok you heathens, your time of tribulation against My people is up! It's MY turn now!"

:amen


OH YEAH! Hour and day... does it matter? Be focused and be ready. :yes :amen

 

[Sparkey]

Vic, maybe you're missing my point?

The duration of the night is determined in the exact same manner as the length of the day. Hours are not 60 minutes. It's "nighttime" now. We await the return of our Light, Jesus. We can't know when He will return and the Kingdom will be established physically on the earth. Trying to define it by studying the word is the same as trying to pick an argument with God by using the logos of God. Can't be done. They are One. We do know about this spiritually and in our hearts. The time of the Kingdom there (in our hearts) is as it has been & always will be: at hand. Now.

~Sparrow