Deathbed Visions

[reba]

This is a tuff topic lets try and keep it on track...

Not necessarily directed at the last poster...

 

[Gary]

Jesus can remove Himself from Hell, but not someone else if He so chooses?

Not being able to leave Hell refers to people condemned there, not to souls taken there by Christ on special missions.

What kind of "special missions"?
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[KevinK]

What kind of "special missions"?
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In the OT they referred to them as "visions". The modern terminology is "experience", as in Near Death Experience or Out-of-Body Experience. Is it really so strange that the Lord continues to take certain chosen individuals on such guided tours?

 

[Gary]

In the OT they referred to them as "visions". The modern terminology is "experience", as in Near Death Experience or Out-of-Body Experience.

I'd like to see scripture for this.

Is it really so strange that the Lord continues to take certain chosen individuals on such guided tours?

Yes I believe it is strange. Because what would be the benefit to having a guided tour of hell?

 

[Kathi]

I am not into that.It is not Biblical.

 

[Lewis]

Jesus can remove Himself from Hell, but not someone else if He so chooses?

Not being able to leave Hell refers to people condemned there, not to souls taken there by Christ on special missions.

I agree

 

[Gary]

I agree

Does the bible really support Jesus giving guided tours of hell?

 

[GrannyJ]

Stephen had a deathbed vision in Acts 7. Have to admit, it wasn't an auntie, it was Jesus. But since Stephen probably knew Jesus while He was on earth, that would have been a familiar face.

 

[Edward]

I can tell from your words that you're skeptical. That's good. Don't be taken in by this stuff. NDEs and DBVs are lies. There's nothing in the Word of God to support such activity.

These things that people are calling their deceased loved ones are in fact familiar spirits. Demons pretending to be aunt Bessy or uncle Bill. Demons whose only job is to draw your attention away from the truth of the Word.
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That is a good point brother, and I have heard of this myself. But from what I understand, almost everything of the enemy is a twisted counterfeit of God or scripture. So it may happen to a few, and may be demons masquerading in other incidents of it. We're told in scripture what to do to be sure. Test those spirits!

Just because there may not be scripture about it doesn't mean they are all lies. However, your words of caution are well taken and should be heeded by all.

 

[Edward]

I was wondering if anyone had also heard of this. There is a major controversy as to whether Anton Lavey made this final utterance or whether the whole story was fabricated. Well, regardless of whether true or not, we know he received a big surprise at the end.

(Incidentally, members of the Laveyan Church of Satan do not actualy believe in Satan. Nor God, Jesus, or any kind of supreme being. They believe man is just an evolved animal, and that the concept of Satan just symbolizes a self-centered, vs. God-centered, being. They got at least that tiny part right- Satan did commit the fatal error of placing his identity above his own Creator, as though to say, "Why can't I be God?")

Yes, I've heard of this also and totally believe it happened.

The bible says you can't go to hell and come back again.

That alone puts the kibosh on NDEs.
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If that's the case brother, then why do these people who (purport) to have have NDE's, come back speaking Jesus Jesus, and not...dark things? Some of these people who say they saw relatives (in NDE's) would be speaking a way different tune than they do, if they were indeed all demons in disguise. That it is not in scripture doesn't prove it wrong. Does God have an obligation to put all of his modus operandi in print for us> I think not brother. The scripture is our Gospel message to teach us to love and to seek God. Other things that he does...has no bearing upon whether or not we receive Him as God.

When a technician comes to your home to work on your A/C system or something, do you tell him, hey you can't do that, it's not in the textbook?! (Sometimes they do, lol). I learned all of my Heat & A/C knowledge OJT. I once worked for a company that hired a bunch of grads of the local tech school, who had zero field experience. These guys could talk circles around me and lose me at the tech table in the shop. I didn't know the book stuff, I just knew how to make stuff work. They sent one with me, and every day, this kid was lost and act like he knew nothing, because it wasn't like that in the lab and text book. I told him, you have to be able to think on your feet. Nothing is like the text book in the field. I suspect the same thing with the spiritual realm. There's a lot more to it than the bible brother.
:wink

 

[KevinK]

I'd like to see scripture for this.

Well, there's lots. Some guided by Jesus, some guided by someone else, some not with a guide at all. Paul's vision of the Lord on the road to Damascus, prompting his conversion to Christianity. Nearly the entire book of Revelation is a vision John had while exiled on the island of Patmos. So are the books of Ezekiel, Daniel, Zechariah; in fact, these books are considered apocalyptic in nature, perhaps the ultimate vision. Further...

Genesis 15:1
After these things the word of the LORD came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward.

Numbers 12:6
And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the LORD will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream.

2 Chronicles 32:32
Now the rest of the acts of Hezekiah, and his goodness, behold, they are written in the vision of Isaiah the prophet, the son of Amoz, and in the book of the kings of Judah and Israel.

Job 33:15
In a dream, in a vision of the night, when deep sleep falleth upon men, in slumberings upon the bed;

Psalms 89:19
Then thou spakest in vision to thy holy one, and saidst, I have laid help upon one that is mighty; I have exalted one chosen out of the people.

Yes I believe it is strange. Because what would be the benefit to having a guided tour of hell?

The benefit is 1. To save the person who is being given the vision, who may be lost otherwise 2. To share the vision with others, that they may also find the narrow path. It is no stranger now than it was in the past.

Proverbs 29:18
Where there is no vision, the people perish

 

[Edward]

Stephen had a deathbed vision in Acts 7. Have to admit, it wasn't an auntie, it was Jesus. But since Stephen probably knew Jesus while He was on earth, that would have been a familiar face.

If one knows Christ at all...they will know if this spirit is of God. Light recognizes light and darkness recognizes darkness. I once had the Holy Spirit come into me so strong...I had no doubt that this was of God. I did not test the Spirit, I knew. He confirmed it anyway by what He said to me, pray for your brother, he needs help. Not something a demon would say, lol.

 

[Edward]

Does the bible really support Jesus giving guided tours of hell?

Maybe maybe not, but the Lord loves us so much...why wouldn't He do a prodigal son thing with one of His children? If your child was hanging at the edge of a cliff, would you give him up for dead or reach out to him?

I gave my kids a guided tour of death when I trained them with guns. To teach them. There's no safety in ignorance brother. Show me in a human textbook where you should teach your kids about guns, it's not there! There's more to life than textbooks, there's practical field experience. Jesus probably does a whooooole lot more than what it says in scripture. He's not just up there sipping a lemonade watching.

 

[Lewis]

And you know I don't care who has a NDE a child or adult in Africa, Poland, China or America, they all see and say the same things, and these people have never met each other. What is going on here is' that God gives certain people a glimpse into heaven proving that the Bible is right and mostly all of them become servants of the Lord. And people who say that God does not do this is dead wrong. Then people say well back it up by Scripture' well what they forget is God is not confined to anything and anyone. There are many things about God that are not in Scripture.

 

[Gary]

The bible says you can't go to hell and come back again.

That alone puts the kibosh on NDEs.
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If that's the case brother,

There's no "if". It's right here in words so plain a child could understand it.

Luke 16
26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.’

then why do these people who (purport) to have have NDE's, come back speaking Jesus Jesus, and not...dark things?

Again, scripture holds the answer.


2 Corinthians 11
14 And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works.

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[Gary]

Is it really so strange that the Lord continues to take certain chosen individuals on such guided tours?

Yes I believe it is strange. Because what would be the benefit to having a guided tour of hell?

The benefit is 1. To save the person who is being given the vision, who may be lost otherwise 2. To share the vision with others, that they may also find the narrow path. It is no stranger now than it was in the past.

The scriptures say "No".


Luke 16
27 “Then he said, ‘I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house,
28 for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.’
29 Abraham said to him, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.’
30 And he said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’
31 But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’”

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[Gary]

Jesus probably does a whooooole lot more than what it says in scripture. He's not just up there sipping a lemonade watching.

I'm sure He does, but the one thing He would never do is go against His own Word.

Or do you disagree?
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[Lewis]

So Gary are you confining God to a box' are you saying that He can't do as He pleases. That gulf does not pertain to Him is a small very small matter to God. He created it, He can cross it, C' mon give me a break here.

 

[Gary]

So Gary are you confining God to a box' are you saying that He can't do as He pleases. That gulf does not pertain to Him is a small very small matter to God. He created it, He can cross it, C' mon give me a break here.

I'm confining Him to His Word. That's all anyone can do.

Yes, God can do anything He wants but the one thing He can't do is "lie".
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[Kathi]

So Gary are you confining God to a box' are you saying that He can't do as He pleases. That gulf does not pertain to Him is a small very small matter to God. He created it, He can cross it, C' mon give me a break here.

The only thing we should take as the truth is the Word of God in the Holy Bible.You just can not go through life making up your own rules to Christianity.Satan is then putting you right where he wants you.Satan hates the Bible he wants people to make up their own meanings.