Deathbed Visions

[KevinK]

Actually, I had a question on that passage, too. How does Luke 16 contradict NDE/DBV?

 

[Gary]

Galatians 1
6 I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel,
7 which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.
9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.

2 Timothy 4
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers;
4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.

2 Timothy 3
6 For of this sort are those who creep into households and make captives of gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts,
7 always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

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[Edward]

Yes, but I'm asking if there's Scriptural support for visions of any kind.

You rang? :wink

Acts 2:17
17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:/(KJV)

Joel 2:28
28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:/(KJV)

Yes, visions and dreams are alive and well praise the Lord! This is the last days as scripture indicates when they will happen.

The Lord speaks to us in many ways. Audibly sometimes, in our head at times, to our heart at times, and through song, and through dreams and visions. It is my belief that dreams and visions are widely used, for a picture is worth a thousand words.

With dreams much of it is through symbolism and one must either get the dream interpreted, or to learn the symbolism used in dreams. A very good Christian site that I personally use for this is at Papas dream interpretation forum: http://papagodsdreaminterps.freeforums.net/

(Tell them Edward sent you)

It's a good site with next to no bickering and there are quite a few "expert" interpreters there (my opinion of them being expert, from experience)

With dream interpretation, you do not simply accept the interpretaion as truth. You read it and then reflect upon the dream, your life and circumstances and consider the accuracy for yourself...and above all every time pray to the Lord for confirmation of the interp and it's truthfulness. IME, the Lord will confirm or deny the interp for you rather quickly somehow, because, after all, He's trying to speak to you and to teach you/ give you a message.

Another thing, when you pray...keep in mind that prayer is a dialogue and not a monologue! Listen, and practice hearing the voice of the Lord/Spirit at all times. Tune into Him. make effort! We have three voices within our head. Ours, the Lords, and the enemy. Practice (and prayer) will make you better at differentiating between the voices.

 

[Edward]

Forgot another, lol

Job 33:14-
14 For God speaketh once, yea twice, yet man perceiveth it not.

15 In a dream, in a vision of the night, when deep sleep falleth upon men, in slumberings upon the bed;

16 Then he openeth the ears of men, and sealeth their instruction,

17 That he may withdraw man from his purpose, and hide pride from man.

18 He keepeth back his soul from the pit, and his life from perishing by the sword./(KJV)

You may not always remember your dream (it is said that we always dream but just don't remember them) but the Holy Spirit will speak to you in dreams and then "seal it up" from your conscious mind, so that we do not remember, but our spirit did get the message.

I almost always pray at night for the Lord to speak to me as I sleep for this reason.

The Lord speaks to us in dreams very much because it is then that He has our undivided attention and we are not distracted with other thoughts and so forth.

 

[Edward]

Galatians 1
6 I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel,
7 which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.
9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.

2 Timothy 4
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers;
4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.

2 Timothy 3
6 For of this sort are those who creep into households and make captives of gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts,
7 always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

.

Oh come on brother gary. You wont even discuss this? No one is denying Jesus, or turning away from the truth, or laying out new doctrines. I'm simply curious about these things, and seek greater truths, not different truths, not heaping up teachers, this is stuff that I have read myself, prayed about, and consider. They're not fables. I have made some reasonable statements, asked a few reasonable questions within the topic of the thread...and with all due respect brother, you seem to be running from the discussion and tossing out scriptures which seem to be having the goal of simply totally rejecting discussion of a reasonable topic, which is a non-salvific topic no less. I don't understand this Gary, you usually seem to be more....open minded and willing to have discussions? That's a little disappointing brother.

Psalm 199:99

 

[KevinK]

Weeell, I can see where you're coming from brother, and I can not say that it is a bad position. Scripture is infallible, and should be taken very seriously. This is the Words of life here, granted. I think that as far as redemption is concerned, ' All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works...(2 Timothy 3:16-17) but as far as the conversation going on, we are delving into the deeper matters of God, not as babes in Christ seeking relationship or redemption, but as saved believers, more mature and seeking deeper knowledge and truths.

That said, I would think that it is a given that everything about God and the way He operates is not in scripture, only those things which are needful for us as doctrine, reproof, correction and instruction in righteousness. None of which are seemingly relevant to this particular discussion. Would you agree?

Tis true that God doesn't lie, but do the scriptures tell us all of Gods ways? I think not, and I would think that the proof of that reside in the fact that He has multitudes of Angels helping, teaching and otherwise assisting His children. Or do you believe that Angels do not function/exist in this manner? The Lord Jesus Himself does not simply sit on His throne and watch. His Holy Spirit works also, It bears witness with our spirit to lead, guide instruct and teach us. If absolutely everything was in scripture that we could know or be instructed in, wouldn't He simply say to us (personally or through His Holy Spirit) "read the scriptures..." ??

There's more to it than that. I am not discounting scriptures one iota, search the scriptures daily, I'm simply saying that there's more to learn from God than is contained in the scriptures.

Well, I like the way you think, Edward. I feel that way about Scripture as well. The Bible is less an encyclopedia than a handbook. Like a visitor's guidebook to a major city, it gets us pointed in the right general direction for exploration, gives us a few warnings to avoid serious mishaps, and only summarizes the various points-of-attraction with regard for our own discovery. How can a single book- even the Bible- even begin to contain the vast, limitless Mind that is our Creator?

 

[Edward]

Well, I like the way you think, Edward. I feel that way about Scripture as well. The Bible is less an encyclopedia than a handbook. Like a visitor's guidebook to a major city, it gets us pointed in the right general direction for exploration, gives us a few warnings to avoid serious mishaps, and only summarizes the various points-of-attraction with regard for our own discovery. How can a single book- even the Bible- even begin to contain the vast, limitless Mind that is our Creator?

Exactly. I think that ultimately, the bible is only scratching the surface of what is our God. That in now is intended to take away from respect for the scriptures or from the needfulness of us to read and study it. No disrespect to any brothers or sisters for feeling the need to stick to scriptures and only scriptures. I can see this as a very good strategy inasmuch there is so much deception in the world and if one does not be careful, they can stray from the narrow path. So I respect this approach

But personally, I have always wanted to learn and to go the extra mile in almost anything. And I keep reading in scripture, to fear not, the Lord will not forsake us, study to show ourselves approved, live for the Spirit, live in Christ and Christ in us, develop relationship, all that I can do you can do this and more, Have faith, overcome...He will protect us.

I believe these things. I mean, I really believe them. That if it is the Lords will, that I progress and mature enough to be able to really be useful to Him. If a little extra effort is what it takes to allow Him to do a better work, more souls may be able to be saved and increase His harvest and glory for Him. Could my shadow heal someone? Could my faith in Him allow Him to save Christians in the last days? I don't know, but his will be done and if He says that i can face a giant that He will deliver me from and not forsake me, then i will believe Him for He does not lie.

Or maybe it will not take me these spiritual heights, but only help me to overcome myself and in these perilous times where many will fall away or be deceived? I do not know the Lords plans for me, but I know that if He leads me somewhere that he will see me through it. The Lord needs mature Christians in these end times and not just babes. here am I Lord. Let me not be deceived, nor deceive myself. And the thing that the bible tells us most more than anything else...the most used phrase in the entire bible, is, Fear not/do not be afraid. This was a good revelation to me when I realized it.

Some may think i am insane, others may think that I preach another gospel , but this is not so. there is one way to the father, through Jesus Christ our Lord, who died on the cross to pay the price for my sins. I just know that there's more to the spiritual realm than what we have been told, or what is in scripture. I don't make this stuff up, all I do is to pray for wisdom and understanding, and pray and read, and this is the twilight zone things that are coming out of it. I may not understand all of it (unneeded to have faith!) I may not be right about all of it, but the Lord is with me and I will not reject it out of fear or some 40 year old sunday school lessons. All of the people saying that they have NDE's or DBE, maybe 90% of them perhaps! But not all of them. There's something to this. The spiritual realm is real. There is an afterlife, we are told to live for the Spirit. Everyone seems to believe this, and yet, are too scared to dig a little deeper because it challenges their sensibilities. A natural reaction I think I think considering how much we have been lied to from birth. But we have to press on in faith and increase our knowledge all while not leaning upon our own understanding? So we have to be teachable and able to receive it from the Spirit. Cling to our God and Lord Jesus Christ and go where He leads us in faith. (Thanks for the kind words brother. you seem very open hearted and seeking,God be with you in your walk.)

 

[Gary]

Oh come on brother gary. You wont even discuss this?
I don't understand this Gary, you usually seem to be more....open minded and willing to have discussions? That's a little disappointing brother.

Your stance can't be supported with scripture. There's nothing to discuss. You believe Jesus comes back and gives guided tours of heaven and hell.....I don't.

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[Kathi]

Your stance can't be supported with scripture. There's nothing to discuss. You believe Jesus comes back and gives guided tours of heaven and hell.....I don't.

.

No guided tours of heaven or hades.Hell does not even exist right now.A person is going to have to wait until they die and actually go there.

 

[Gary]

and with all due respect brother, you seem to be running from the discussion and tossing out scriptures which seem to be having the goal of simply totally rejecting discussion of a reasonable topic, which is a non-salvific topic no less.

Unless you're a Universalist, this topic does have salvation issues. Especially for new believers and those who aren't grounded in the Word.


2 Peter 2
18 For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped from those who live in error.
19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage.
20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning.
21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.
22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”

.

 

[Kathi]

Unless you're a Universalist, this topic does have salvation issues. Especially for new believers and those who aren't grounded in the Word.


2 Peter 2
18 For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped from those who live in error.
19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage.
20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning.
21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.
22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”

.

Yes :yes

 

[jasonc]

A common deathbed experience is for someone to say they see a family member.

uhm, I have been very much alive and seen family members that are dead and yet are spirits. does that make it a fact?

 

[Kathi]

uhm, I have been very much alive and seen family members that are dead and yet are spirits. does that make it a fact?

You were hallucinating?

 

[jasonc]

You were hallucinating?

no, not at all. on my way to a bible study at church when I saw my grandpa.

 

[Kathi]

no, not at all. on my way to a bible study at church when I saw my grandpa.

How could you see your grandpa when he is dead?There are no such thing as ghosts.

 

[jasonc]

How could you see your grandpa when he is dead?There are no such thing as ghosts.

exactly, and when we have visions of people dead , we ought to take that into consideration.however, I didn't feel that being was a demon, I still don't know what to make of that. but im not the only one whom has such things.

 

[Kathi]

exactly, and when we have visions of people dead , we ought to take that into consideration.however, I didn't feel that being was a demon, I still don't know what to make of that. but im not the only one whom has such things.

When someone dies they don't roam the earth.They go to heaven or hades.Those that you see seeming to be your loved ones are probably demons looking like those loved ones.

 

[jasonc]

View attachment 4716

When someone dies they don't roam the earth.They go to heaven or hades.Those that you see seeming to be your loved ones are probably demons looking like those loved ones.

and one could say that about the visions. do we really know? I have my problems with that, I watched heaven is for real. the problem I have with that is that jesus isnt shown as brown skinned person. ok that is irrevalant but since he was a jew and then in desert area, its reasonable to say that he had some tan. yet this image isn't as that. not pale but neither olive skinned.

 

[Kathi]

View attachment 4716
and one could say that about the visions. do we really know? I have my problems with that, I watched heaven is for real. the problem I have with that is that jesus isnt shown as brown skinned person. ok that is irrevalant but since he was a jew and then in desert area, its reasonable to say that he had some tan. yet this image isn't as that. not pale but neither olive skinned.

What does that have to do with my reply?

 

[KevinK]

No guided tours of heaven or hades.Hell does not even exist right now.A person is going to have to wait until they die and actually go there.

Do the people in Hades suffer?