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Deathbed Visions

Lewis W said:
And you know I don't care who has a NDE a child or adult in Africa, Poland, China or America, they all see and say the same things, and these people have never met each other.
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2 Corinthians 11
14 And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works.


Do you suppose that Satan's ministers follow him around like little puppies? No, they are spread out across the globe doing the work of their father, the devil. Since the devil is behind this activity, is it really any wonder that all these people see and say the same things?


Think.
.
 
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I'm torn. I kind of think its some biochemical, neurological thing. I mean, there's so much we don't know about the brain. Also, I've read elsewhere that this happens across cultures, to lots of people, and the content of the visions is usually culturally-appropriate, so that would indicate to me that its something emanating from the brain. Just a guess.
 
What happens if these people did not see a vision?They would not have come to Christ?That is going pretty close to the world's philosophy that you have to have proof in order to believe.Blind faith is not good enough?
 
Kathi said:
What happens if these people did not see a vision?They would not have come to Christ?That is going pretty close to the world's philosophy that you have to have proof in order to believe.Blind faith is not good enough?
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Well you know with God it is a individual thing, He chooses certain people for His specific purpose.
 
I've seen the videos of Bryan Melvin and Mickey Robinson many times, and personally believe they're valid. Thank you for posting them, Lewis (I don't think I have the clout to post such things on this forum yet).

________________

Reba is right in that we're getting a little off-track (it's my fault as much as anyone else). The original issue is about whether visions are real, and specifically death bed visions. The question over whether one can return from Hell is obviously very polarized, and while a very important topic, is not the topic of this particular thread. I would suggest we leave it for the moment, following Reba's comments.

The Death Bed Vision (DBV) is a type of vision, the term found in the Bible. The more modern term for vision is "experience", for example the widely used phrase Near Death Experience. The only technical difference between DBV and NDE is whether the person returns to their body after dying.

Visions have occurred in the past, they've been recorded in the Bible, and there's no reason they can't still be happening now. So is the issue that specifically seeing "people" in a death bed vision not scripturally-supported? And by "people" I mean deceased relatives, angels or saints, or Jesus Himself. So the real issue is visitation?
________________

Another sidenote: I do believe that many visions are Satanic or demonic (even Bryan Melvin has warned that many visions are demonic, and it is very difficult to sort out the good ones. I don't believe they're all Satanic.
 
KevinK said:
I've seen the videos of Bryan Melvin and Mickey Robinson many times, and personally believe they're valid. Thank you for posting them, Lewis (I don't think I have the clout to post such things on this forum yet).

________________

Reba is right in that we're getting a little off-track (it's my fault as much as anyone else). The original issue is about whether visions are real, and specifically death bed visions. The question over whether one can return from Hell is obviously very polarized, and while a very important topic, is not the topic of this particular thread. I would suggest we leave it for the moment, following Reba's comments.

The Death Bed Vision (DBV) is a type of vision, the term found in the Bible. The more modern term for vision is "experience", for example the widely used phrase Near Death Experience. The only technical difference between DBV and NDE is whether the person returns to their body after dying.

Visions have occurred in the past, they've been recorded in the Bible, and there's no reason they can't still be happening now. So is the issue that specifically seeing "people" in a death bed vision not scripturally-supported? And by "people" I mean deceased relatives, angels or saints, or Jesus Himself. So the real issue is visitation?
________________

Another sidenote: I do believe that many visions are Satanic or demonic (even Bryan Melvin has warned that many visions are demonic, and it is very difficult to sort out the good ones. I don't believe they're all Satanic.
Click to expand...


NDEs and DBVs. Scripture doesn't support those beliefs.
.
 
Kathi said:
No there is no Scriptural support.If anyone of those incidents are true I don't know :shrug.
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I thought your position was more like "if it isn't in Scripture, it doesn't exist"? Not critisizing (at least for the moment :biggrin2), just trying to understand where you're coming from. I'm also interested in Gary's viewpoint on visions of a more general nature.
 
Gary said:
NDEs and DBVs. Scripture doesn't support those beliefs.
.
Click to expand...
KevinK said:
Yes, but I'm asking if there's Scriptural support for visions of any kind.
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Yes.

Acts 2
17 ‘And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God,
That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your young men shall see visions,
Your old men shall dream dreams.

.
 
KevinK said:
I thought your position was more like "if it isn't in Scripture, it doesn't exist"? Not critisizing (at least for the moment :biggrin2), just trying to understand where you're coming from. I'm also interested in Gary's viewpoint on visions of a more general nature.
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If it is not in the Word of God I don't believe it but I am not God.I don't know if He has allowed an incident to happen.God's understanding is way different than our understanding.
 
Gary said:
Yes.

Acts 2
17 ‘And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God,
That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your young men shall see visions,
Your old men shall dream dreams.

.
Click to expand...
OK, thanks.

I guess I should mention again that I'm more open to the possibility of NDEs and OOBs because I've had one. You might say, "It's all illusions from Satan", but that would still be a vision.

Kathi said:
If it is not in the Word of God I don't believe it but I am not God.I don't know if He has allowed an incident to happen.God's understanding is way different than our understanding.
Click to expand...
I allow for the possibility that something that was true a couple thousand years ago may be different now. Things do change, and stuff happens.
 
KevinK said:
Yes, but I'm asking if there's Scriptural support for visions of any kind.
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Of course there is. The Bible is just full of dreams and visions and revelations. My guess, just off the top of my head, would be several dozen, anyway.
 
Gary said:
Yes.

Acts 2
17 ‘And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God,
That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your young men shall see visions,
Your old men shall dream dreams.

.
Click to expand...
:thumbsup
 
Acts 2:17 God can speak through dreams if He chooses to.
 
Gary said:
The scriptures say "No".


Luke 16
27 “Then he said, ‘I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house,
28 for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.’
29 Abraham said to him, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.’
30 And he said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’
31 But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’”

.
Click to expand...

Just a minute brother. Scripture says that He is the god of the living and not of the dead. That may be a slight swerve into a slightly different topic, but i do believe that it is relevant and means something here. :)

Gary said:
I'm sure He does, but the one thing He would never do is go against His own Word.
Or do you disagree?
.
Click to expand...

I agree with that brother, please continue. :)
 
Gary said:
I'm confining Him to His Word. That's all anyone can do.

Yes, God can do anything He wants but the one thing He can't do is "lie".
.
Click to expand...

Weeell, I can see where you're coming from brother, and I can not say that it is a bad position. Scripture is infallible, and should be taken very seriously. This is the Words of life here, granted. I think that as far as redemption is concerned, ' All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works...(2 Timothy 3:16-17) but as far as the conversation going on, we are delving into the deeper matters of God, not as babes in Christ seeking relationship or redemption, but as saved believers, more mature and seeking deeper knowledge and truths.

That said, I would think that it is a given that everything about God and the way He operates is not in scripture, only those things which are needful for us as doctrine, reproof, correction and instruction in righteousness. None of which are seemingly relevant to this particular discussion. Would you agree?

Tis true that God doesn't lie, but do the scriptures tell us all of Gods ways? I think not, and I would think that the proof of that reside in the fact that He has multitudes of Angels helping, teaching and otherwise assisting His children. Or do you believe that Angels do not function/exist in this manner? The Lord Jesus Himself does not simply sit on His throne and watch. His Holy Spirit works also, It bears witness with our spirit to lead, guide instruct and teach us. If absolutely everything was in scripture that we could know or be instructed in, wouldn't He simply say to us (personally or through His Holy Spirit) "read the scriptures..." ??

There's more to it than that. I am not discounting scriptures one iota, search the scriptures daily, I'm simply saying that there's more to learn from God than is contained in the scriptures.
 
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