Deception from where

[JohnDB]

John you said "And as a result of Paul's education he wrote 2/3 of the New Testament."

i thought it was due to his anointing... his education was getting believers killed before he met Jesus..

Yes,
But because of Paul's education he turned his knowledge of God into understandable lessons that the Gentiles could follow and not be confused by Gnostics or other "Johnny-come-calling" preachers who were in it for profits.
Many could read the Greek translation of the Old Testament (called the Septuagint) but understanding it in light of an Ancient Near East mindset was beyond them. And as a result of Paul's education and temperament he was the perfect Apostle for the Gentiles.

 

[turnorburn]

Maybe i should have included this..

II Corinthians 12:1 It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.

2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.

3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)

4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

5 Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities.

6 For though I would desire to glory, I shall not be a fool; for I will say the truth: but now I forbear, lest any man should think of me above that which he seeth me to be, or that he heareth of me.

7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.

9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

 

[Free]

That is precisely what Christ is saying--"saying, I am Christ".

Try again

Let's look at the context:

Mat 24:1 Jesus left the temple and was going away, when his disciples came to point out to him the buildings of the temple.
Mat 24:2 But he answered them, "You see all these, do you not? Truly, I say to you, there will not be left here one stone upon another that will not be thrown down."
Mat 24:3 As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?"
Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered them, "See that no one leads you astray.
Mat 24:5 For many will come in my name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and they will lead many astray. (ESV)

First, notice that Jesus points out the buildings of the temple and then says, "there will not be left here one stone upon another that will not be thrown down." He is clearly talking about the destruction of the Temple. We know from history that this happened in 70 AD with the destruction of Jerusalem by Rome.

We then see the disciples ask at least two questions: 1) "when will these things be?" and 2) "what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?" That is verse 3.

It is in verse 4 that Jesus begins his answer to the first question, and his answer begins with a warning that there will be deceptive people trying to lead others astray. In verse 5 he then explains how people will be led astray: "For many will come in my name, saying, 'I am the Christ'." We can see clearly that for someone to say "I am the Christ," is what Jesus means by "many will come in my name." This is what a plain reading of the text shows.

If that is not enough for you, M. R. Vincent's Word Studies in the New Testament, states:

In my name (ἐπὶ τῷ ὀνόματί μου)
Lit., on my name, i.e., on the strength of; resting their claims on the name Messiah.

There simply is no way around it--in these verses Jesus is speaking of a point in time prior to the destruction of the Temple, warning the disciples that some will claim to be the Christ and lead many astray.

 

[Free]

John you said "And as a result of Paul's education he wrote 2/3 of the New Testament."

i thought it was due to his anointing... his education was getting believers killed before he met Jesus..

You thought only half right:

Act 17:1 Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where there was a synagogue of the Jews.
Act 17:2 And Paul went in, as was his custom, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures,
Act 17:3 explaining and proving that it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead, and saying, "This Jesus, whom I proclaim to you, is the Christ." (ESV)

Act 17:16 Now while Paul was waiting for them at Athens, his spirit was provoked within him as he saw that the city was full of idols.
Act 17:17 So he reasoned in the synagogue with the Jews and the devout persons, and in the marketplace every day with those who happened to be there. (ESV)

Act 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and tried to persuade Jews and Greeks. (ESV)

This is not at all about either Paul's anointing or his education, it's clearly about both his anointing and his education. He was able to reason "from the Scriptures" precisely because he had been educated in them. Never in Scripture do we see a divide between education and anointing.

Maybe i should have included this..

II Corinthians 12:1 It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.

2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.

3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)

4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

5 Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities.

6 For though I would desire to glory, I shall not be a fool; for I will say the truth: but now I forbear, lest any man should think of me above that which he seeth me to be, or that he heareth of me.

7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.

9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

And just what is this supposed to be saying?

 

[turnorburn]

You thought only half right:

Act 17:1 Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where there was a synagogue of the Jews.
Act 17:2 And Paul went in, as was his custom, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures,
Act 17:3 explaining and proving that it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead, and saying, "This Jesus, whom I proclaim to you, is the Christ." (ESV)

Act 17:16 Now while Paul was waiting for them at Athens, his spirit was provoked within him as he saw that the city was full of idols.
Act 17:17 So he reasoned in the synagogue with the Jews and the devout persons, and in the marketplace every day with those who happened to be there. (ESV)

Act 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and tried to persuade Jews and Greeks. (ESV)

This is not at all about either Paul's anointing or his education, it's clearly about both his anointing and his education. He was able to reason "from the Scriptures" precisely because he had been educated in them. Never in Scripture do we see a divide between education and anointing.


And just what is this supposed to be saying?

And what do you suppose Paul meant by this?

7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. (KJV)

 

[Free]

And what do you suppose Paul meant by this?

7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. (KJV)

It likely means that Paul received some incredible revelations and so to keep him from becoming conceited, he was given some sort of "thorn in the flesh" to keep him humble. What of it?

 

[smaller]

Yes,
But because of Paul's education he turned his knowledge of God into understandable lessons that the Gentiles could follow and not be confused by Gnostics or other "Johnny-come-calling" preachers who were in it for profits.
Many could read the Greek translation of the Old Testament (called the Septuagint) but understanding it in light of an Ancient Near East mindset was beyond them. And as a result of Paul's education and temperament he was the perfect Apostle for the Gentiles.

Never happened.

Paul tells us from whence his dissections came:

Galatians 1:12
For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

 

[for_his_glory]

Could someone tell me what Jesus means when he warned us in the scripture below:
Matthew 24:
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Could the deception he is referring to be coming from religious organizations who think they are doing right?

Exactly as you hit the nail on the head with religious organizations.

Latin root word for religion is bondage, which is different then that of Gods pure religion of James 1:27, but that of following tradition and the doctrine of a mans church, not Gods true Church. The Latin root word is religare as re is a prefix that means return and ligare means to bind. Religion tells you what you can and cannot do and becomes socially acceptable by mans interpretations, traditions and doctrines. Religion is what nailed Christ to the cross because the Bible is not socially acceptable to society, if it were then Christ would have died in vain. God is not about mans religion, nor does he recognize organized religion. God is about a personal relationship with you and His son Jesus Christ.

John 1:1 in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:2 the same was in the beginning with God.
John 1:3 all things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
John 1:4 in him was life; and the life was the light of men.
John 1:5 and the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

 

[for_his_glory]

This is a highly problematic answer as it not only is dangerous, it is unbiblical. You are also being hypocritical because you are doing the very same thing you accuse others of doing. Not to mention the spiritual pride in your first sentence.

That is the trap of believing all we need is the Holy Spirit to guide and teach us. There have been several on these forums before you who made that claim, and yet they could not agree with each other. That alone proves that claim to be problematic.

Many follow the teachings given them by the Holy Spirit in whom is the only one who can teach us all truths, John 14:26. When people take their focus off of man and open their Spiritual ears to what the Holy Spirit is teaching them then they will come into all truths. Many think they are hearing from the Holy Spirit but are deceived as their mind set is not on the Holy Spirit, even though they think so, but it is whatever comes out of the pulpit is what they are following.

 

[for_his_glory]

Naw it ain't painful for myself to be called prideful rather the pain is there is a miscommunication between what I am trying to say and what you think you should teach me and I am well aware of scripture and I am not here to boast just to share the truth and maybe others won't have to be in the dark.

We can all say we are here to share truth as what the Holy Spirit teaches us, but we also need to be opened to listen to what others believe and discuss that without seeming to be superior over them. This is called humbleness before the Lord, the same humbleness Christ had and has for those who are seeking truth. We could never exhaust the teachings of God and a fool is the only one who says they have all truths, not calling you a fool, but just showing we need to grow in our faith as not everyone is on the same level of learning and understanding. Humbleness also brings us to a place of seeing that sometimes we might be wrong and God will send another to correct us as He has done many times with me when I needed correction. If we have a stiff neck then we become prideful and that is one of the seven things God hates the most.

Proverbs 6:
12 A naughty person, a wicked man, walketh with a froward mouth. 13 He winketh with his eyes, he speaketh with his feet, he teacheth with his fingers; 14 Frowardness is in his heart, he deviseth mischief continually; he soweth discord. 15 Therefore shall his calamity come suddenly; suddenly shall he be broken without remedy. 16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: 17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, 18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, 19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

 

[Free]

Many follow the teachings given them by the Holy Spirit in whom is the only one who can teach us all truths, John 14:26. When people take their focus off of man and open their Spiritual ears to what the Holy Spirit is teaching them then they will come into all truths. Many think they are hearing from the Holy Spirit but are deceived as their mind set is not on the Holy Spirit, even though they think so, but it is whatever comes out of the pulpit is what they are following.

But yet this is not what the Bible teaches because you are misunderstanding and misusing John 14:26. That is Jesus speaking to the disciples regarding his going away and the giving of the Holy Spirit to continue in teaching the disciples and helping them to remember what he taught them. It is not a general statement to all Christians. The result of that verse are the writings of the Apostles and others that form the NT.

What you have given is unbiblical as it ignores what the Bible says about the gifts of pastors and teachers for the building up of the Church. It ignores other passages of Scripture such as found in 1Tim. where Paul instructs Timothy to "Command and teach these things" (4:11, ESV). In fact, what you are erroneously making John 14:26 say means that we wouldn't need the Bible at all; the Holy Spirit would just teach us. Not to mention, again, that all who have come into these forums and stated what you have above, all disagree about certain things, so clearly it cannot be correct.

 

[for_his_glory]

It likely means that Paul received some incredible revelations and so to keep him from becoming conceited, he was given some sort of "thorn in the flesh" to keep him humble. What of it?

I don't want to take this off topic discussing Paul's thorn in the flesh, but to only show what it was as being the same thorn in our flesh that will try to buffet us at times.

Paul's thorn in the flesh was that of Satan's messenger trying to buffet him. Buffet here means to strike repeatedly as Satan used his demons to come against Paul and persecute him everywhere he went. Paul prayed three times for God to take these persecutions away and God said no as God said "My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness".

God is not going to keep us from being persecuted as even His own Son Christ Jesus was persecuted to death on the cross and many martyrs after him in other ways, even so still today as many are persecuted even to death for the witness of Christ. God gives us His power and authority through His grace to give us strength when we are persecuted like Paul said:

2Corinthians 12:9 Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
2Corinthians 12:10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

Act 9:15; 2 Corinthians 4:8-12; Galatians 5:11; 2 Timothy3:10, 11; 1 Corinthians 15:30-32; 2 Corinthians 4:7-18; 6:3-10; 11:23-28; 12:5-10; Galatians 4:13, 15

2Co 6:3 Giving no offence in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed:
2Co 6:4 But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses,
2Co 6:5 In stripes, in imprisonments, in tumults, in labours, in watchings, in fastings;
2Co 6:6 By pureness, by knowledge, by longsuffering, by kindness, by the Holy Ghost, by love unfeigned,
2Co 6:7 By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left,
2Co 6:8 By honour and dishonour, by evil report and good report: as deceivers, and yet true;
2Co 6:9 As unknown, and yet well known; as dying, and, behold, we live; as chastened, and not killed;
2Co 6:10 As sorrowful, yet alway rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things.

 

[for_his_glory]

But yet this is not what the Bible teaches because you are misunderstanding and misusing John 14:26. That is Jesus speaking to the disciples regarding his going away and the giving of the Holy Spirit to continue in teaching the disciples and helping them to remember what he taught them. It is not a general statement to all Christians. The result of that verse are the writings of the Apostles and others that form the NT.

What you have given is unbiblical as it ignores what the Bible says about the gifts of pastors and teachers for the building up of the Church. It ignores other passages of Scripture such as found in 1Tim. where Paul instructs Timothy to "Command and teach these things" (4:11, ESV). In fact, what you are erroneously making John 14:26 say means that we wouldn't need the Bible at all; the Holy Spirit would just teach us. Not to mention, again, that all who have come into these forums and stated what you have above, all disagree about certain things, so clearly it cannot be correct.

Is every Pastor or teacher anointed, no, as many are only self proclaimed. You are contradicting yourself as you say it was only the disciples that received the Holy Spirit in John 14:26 in order to continue in teaching and helping them to remember what Jesus taught them. Then you say what about the gifts of pastors and teachers, are they not suppose to walk in that same anointing of John 14:26? Did that anointing from the Holy Spirit end with the disciples? Another question, who else besides the Apostles wrote the Gospels as you said others that form the NT?

 

[Free]

Is every Pastor or teacher anointed, no, as many are only self proclaimed. You are contradicting yourself as you say it was only the disciples that received the Holy Spirit in John 14:26 in order to continue in teaching and helping them to remember what Jesus taught them. Then you say what about the gifts of pastors and teachers, are they not suppose to walk in that same anointing of John 14:26? Did that anointing from the Holy Spirit end with the disciples?

There is no contradiction as you are misunderstanding what I have said. John 14:26 applies only to the twelve disciples but there are other passages which do speak generally of the Holy Spirit's role in teaching and guiding believers. The point is that there is no verse in Scripture for the believer that all we need is the Holy Spirit, that we don't need others to teach us. To say otherwise is to go against Scripture.

Another question, who else besides the Apostles wrote the Gospels as you said others that form the NT?

Mark, Luke, James, Jude, and possibly the writer of Hebrews.

 

[for_his_glory]

there are other passages which do speak generally of the Holy Spirit's role in teaching and guiding believers.

Can you give me those scriptures please. And can you also explain Acts 2:38-41 if the Holy Spirit was only given to the Disciples?

 

[Free]

Can you give me those scriptures please.

Rom. 8:14; Gal. 5:16,18.

And can you also explain Acts 2:38-41 if the Holy Spirit was only given to the Disciples?

Of course in Acts 2 the Holy Spirit wasn't given only to the Apostles, but that has absolutely nothing to do with John 14:26.

 

[JohnDB]

Never happened.

Paul tells us from whence his dissections came:

Galatians 1:12
For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Just curious...
When Paul wrote 2 Timothy 3:16 exactly what do you think that he was speaking about? His previous letters to churches? Gospel accounts that had yet to be written or were in process at the moment?
And you do understand that in order to become a Pharisee leader as he was he first had to become a Rabbi...which means he had the whole Torah (5 books of Moses) memorized and was working on the rest of the Old Testament...including books like Maccabees and the Wisdom books we don't use today...

Where his "theology" may not have come from the halls of their academia...his knowledge of scriptures and prophesy most certainly did.

 

[smaller]

Just curious...
When Paul wrote 2 Timothy 3:16 exactly what do you think that he was speaking about? His previous letters to churches? Gospel accounts that had yet to be written or were in process at the moment?

Paul didn't put much stock in his life prior to his meeting with Jesus.

And you do understand that in order to become a Pharisee leader as he was he first had to become a Rabbi...which means he had the whole Torah (5 books of Moses) memorized and was working on the rest of the Old Testament...including books like Maccabees and the Wisdom books we don't use today...

Paul's life as Saul shows us how deceiving religion can be, being a complicit murderer and persecutor of believers.

Where his "theology" may not have come from the halls of their academia...his knowledge of scriptures and prophesy most certainly did.

I don't think Saul learned a single thing about Christianity from his prior unsaved life. The whole thing took him by surprise, as Jesus often does.

Philippians 3:
4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.

 

[Taniesh]

Exactly as you hit the nail on the head with religious organizations.

Latin root word for religion is bondage, which is different then that of Gods pure religion of James 1:27, but that of following tradition and the doctrine of a mans church, not Gods true Church. The Latin root word is religare as re is a prefix that means return and ligare means to bind. Religion tells you what you can and cannot do and becomes socially acceptable by mans interpretations, traditions and doctrines. Religion is what nailed Christ to the cross because the Bible is not socially acceptable to society, if it were then Christ would have died in vain. God is not about mans religion, nor does he recognize organized religion. God is about a personal relationship with you and His son Jesus Christ.

John 1:1 in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:2 the same was in the beginning with God.
John 1:3 all things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
John 1:4 in him was life; and the life was the light of men.
John 1:5 and the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

:amen

 

[Free]

Exactly as you hit the nail on the head with religious organizations.

Latin root word for religion is bondage, which is different then that of Gods pure religion of James 1:27, but that of following tradition and the doctrine of a mans church, not Gods true Church. The Latin root word is religare as re is a prefix that means return and ligare means to bind. Religion tells you what you can and cannot do and becomes socially acceptable by mans interpretations, traditions and doctrines. Religion is what nailed Christ to the cross because the Bible is not socially acceptable to society, if it were then Christ would have died in vain. God is not about mans religion, nor does he recognize organized religion. God is about a personal relationship with you and His son Jesus Christ.

John 1:1 in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:2 the same was in the beginning with God.
John 1:3 all things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
John 1:4 in him was life; and the life was the light of men.
John 1:5 and the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

That has absolutely nothing to do with Matt. 24:4-5.