Deception from where

[for_his_glory]

Rom. 8:14; Gal. 5:16,18.


Of course in Acts 2 the Holy Spirit wasn't given only to the Apostles, but that has absolutely nothing to do with John 14:26.

Why doesn't it have anything to do with John 14:26 as the disciples were the first to be indwelled and than many after them were baptized and indwelled with the Holy Spirit, 2Peter 2:37-41.

You really need to quit contradicting yourself as on one hand you said the Holy Spirit was only given to the disciples, John 14:26, and now you are saying the Holy Spirit has been given to many as it was you who posted Rom. 8:14; Gal. 5:16,18.

 

[turnorburn]

It likely means that Paul received some incredible revelations and so to keep him from becoming conceited, he was given some sort of "thorn in the flesh" to keep him humble. What of it?

Well if you say "what of it" Free it must not be of importance..

 

[Free]

Why doesn't it have anything to do with John 14:26 as the disciples were the first to be indwelled and than many after them were baptized and indwelled with the Holy Spirit, 2Peter 2:37-41.

You really need to quit contradicting yourself as on one hand you said the Holy Spirit was only given to the disciples, John 14:26, and now you are saying the Holy Spirit has been given to many as it was you who posted Rom. 8:14; Gal. 5:16,18.

Please show me where I said, "the Holy Spirit was only given to the disciples". You claimed I said that, so now show me.

 

[Free]

Well if you say "what of it" Free it must not be of importance..

I'm asking you what you mean by it. I see no connection so I want to know what you mean.

 

[turnorburn]

I'm asking you what you mean by it. I see no connection so I want to know what you mean.

Galatians 1:http://av1611.com/kjbp/kjv-bible-text/Ga-1.html (KJV)

 

[Free]

Galatians 1:http://av1611.com/kjbp/kjv-bible-text/Ga-1.html (KJV)

Posting Scripture without posting what you mean in posting it is largely meaningless. I have no idea what you mean by all this.

 

[turnorburn]

Posting Scripture without posting what you mean in posting it is largely meaningless. I have no idea what you mean by all this.

Your relentless questioning of members after they've answered your questions puzzles me as well..

 

[Free]

Your relentless questioning of members after they've answered your questions puzzles me as well..

Since when has seeking clarification become a crime? If people actually answered my questions or stated clearly what the answer was, I wouldn't have nearly as many questions.

You asked me what I thought a certain passage meant. I answered and then asked you what it had to do with anything. You then post a passage of Scripture in response without explaining what you think it means and how it is relevant. Hence why I am asking questions. Are you just wanting to play games or are you going to contribute something meaningful to this conversation?

 

[for_his_glory]

Please show me where I said, "the Holy Spirit was only given to the disciples". You claimed I said that, so now show me.

Post # 51 you said: But yet this is not what the Bible teaches because you are misunderstanding and misusing John 14:26. That is Jesus speaking to the disciples regarding his going away and the giving of the Holy Spirit to continue in teaching the disciples and helping them to remember what he taught them. It is not a general statement to all Christians. The result of that verse are the writings of the Apostles and others that form the NT.

If I have misinterpreted what you said I do apologize.

 

[Free]

Post # 51 you said: But yet this is not what the Bible teaches because you are misunderstanding and misusing John 14:26. That is Jesus speaking to the disciples regarding his going away and the giving of the Holy Spirit to continue in teaching the disciples and helping them to remember what he taught them. It is not a general statement to all Christians. The result of that verse are the writings of the Apostles and others that form the NT.

If I have misinterpreted what you said I do apologize.

I can see how what I said isn't quite clear. My point was not that the giving of the Holy Spirit was only for the twelve disciples--every believer receives the Holy Spirit--but it is that the Holy Spirit "will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you." That was for the twelve only and the results are the writings of the NT.

The point is that one cannot use this verse to support the idea that all an individual needs is the Holy Spirit to teach them what Scripture says.

 

[for_his_glory]

I can see how what I said isn't quite clear. My point was not that the giving of the Holy Spirit was only for the twelve disciples--every believer receives the Holy Spirit--but it is that the Holy Spirit "will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you." That was for the twelve only and the results are the writings of the NT.

The point is that one cannot use this verse to support the idea that all an individual needs is the Holy Spirit to teach them what Scripture says.

Then why does the Holy Spirit bring back to my remembrance certain scriptures when I need them if that was only for the twelve? Do you think the twelve or anyone for that matter could understand scripture without the Holy Spirit teaching us? If we are not to Spiritually discern that of what we are being taught then just like the Disciples before the indwelling only had a carnal knowledge.

John 3:3-12 Jesus was trying to explain to Nicodemus about being Spiritually born again, but with a carnal mind Nicodemus could not understand what Jesus was teaching him.

The disciples could not understand with their carnal minds what Jesus was teaching them, but they knew he was a prophet sent from God and accepted the authority and power which he taught with through miracles, signs and wonders. It would not be until the Spirit of God was taken up out of the tomb and revealed to the hearts of those who believed on him that the same Spirit would be sent back down to dwell in the hearts of those who believed.

It is only by the Holy Spirit alone speaking through those who have the anointing from God to teach us. How do we know if they are truly anointed, by testing the spirit that is speaking, 1John 4:1-6, as there are many wolves in sheep clothing, Matthew 7:15-23, behind the pulpit that will cunningly deceive those who lack knowledge.

Is scripture the words of the writers or the writers words of Christ!

 

[Taniesh]

That has absolutely nothing to do with Matt. 24:4-5.

What makes you say it doesn't?

 

[Free]

What makes you say it doesn't?

The context, as I have shown in post #43 on the previous page.

 

[Taniesh]

Mat 24:5 For many will come in my name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and they will lead many astray. (ESV)

I now see what is happening. The ESV states it as Mat 24:5 For many will come in my name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and they will lead many astray. you are using has changed whereas in the KJV that scripture says:
Matthew 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Now the problem is one little small seemingly insignificant word "the" was added in the ESV version which changed the whole meaning which this is what causes a problem. When one takes time to research into all the different Bible revisions and translations, which is done by a committee of evangelicals, pastors, theologians, etc., one could clearly see there is a pattern of those committees changing words and if anyone would be guilty of making scripture fit their own ideas it would be those of the committees. They would be motivated more than anyone to make those changes yet we allow ourselves, as reasonable thinking humans, to be drawn into such a subtle shifting ending up in such a chaos it causes offense between one another due to translation preferences. I have been into many churches and most all the time I didn't know what version they read from because I carried my King James Version. Deception comes in the form of subtleness like a snake (aka serpent) and before you know it you drawn into the trap. To a blind mind the difference in the scripture above would seem trivial and will find ways to shoot down the original version given to America to make themselves feel justified in believing the way they want. I think some people don't grasp the severity in keeping with the King James Version Bible. There have been much more debates and arguments over scripture since the revisions and translations started. When Jesus said "shall come in my name..." meant in the stead of him. For example: John Doe was invited to a party but John Doe could not attend so he chooses a person to go in his place to stand in which is called sending a representative in the name of John Doe. There will be many people who claim they were sent by Jesus as a representative to stand in for Jesus but in doing that they will use that position to deceive many.

The confusion among scripture readers is different translations and versions of the Bible there will not be harmony and the proof has been throughout this forum.
1Corinthians 14:33 For God is not [the author] of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

 

[for_his_glory]

I now see what is happening. The ESV states it as Mat 24:5 For many will come in my name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and they will lead many astray. you are using has changed whereas in the KJV that scripture says:
Matthew 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Now the problem is one little small seemingly insignificant word "the" was added in the ESV version which changed the whole meaning which this is what causes a problem. When one takes time to research into all the different Bible revisions and translations, which is done by a committee of evangelicals, pastors, theologians, etc., one could clearly see there is a pattern of those committees changing words and if anyone would be guilty of making scripture fit their own ideas it would be those of the committees. They would be motivated more than anyone to make those changes yet we allow ourselves, as reasonable thinking humans, to be drawn into such a subtle shifting ending up in such a chaos it causes offense between one another due to translation preferences. I have been into many churches and most all the time I didn't know what version they read from because I carried my King James Version. Deception comes in the form of subtleness like a snake (aka serpent) and before you know it you drawn into the trap. To a blind mind the difference in the scripture above would seem trivial and will find ways to shoot down the original version given to America to make themselves feel justified in believing the way they want. I think some people don't grasp the severity in keeping with the King James Version Bible. There have been much more debates and arguments over scripture since the revisions and translations started. When Jesus said "shall come in my name..." meant in the stead of him. For example: John Doe was invited to a party but John Doe could not attend so he chooses a person to go in his place to stand in which is called sending a representative in the name of John Doe. There will be many people who claim they were sent by Jesus as a representative to stand in for Jesus but in doing that they will use that position to deceive many.

The confusion among scripture readers is different translations and versions of the Bible there will not be harmony and the proof has been throughout this forum.
1Corinthians 14:33 For God is not [the author] of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

Confusion does come with all these different translations that try to make it easier to read the Bible as one word added or taken away can change the whole meaning of what the KJV presents. I do like The Jerusalem Bible as it is more modern day English, but yet keeps the wording of the original Hebrew and Greek translators that gave us the KJV , even though I mostly use the KJV. I don't want to get off topic with different translations, but to only show the wording of Matthew 24:5,6 which we are discussing.

This is how the Jerusalem Bible reads for Matthew 24:4,5:
And Jesus answered them, "Take care that no one deceives you; because many will come using my name and saying "I am the Christ" and they will deceive many.

 

[Taniesh]

Confusion does come with all these different translations that try to make it easier to read the Bible as one word added or taken away can change the whole meaning of what the KJV presents. I do like The Jerusalem Bible as it is more modern day English, but yet keeps the wording of the original Hebrew and Greek translators that gave us the KJV , even though I mostly use the KJV. I don't want to get off topic with different translations, but to only show the wording of Matthew 24:5,6 which we are discussing.

This is how the Jerusalem Bible reads for Matthew 24:4,5:
And Jesus answered them, "Take care that no one deceives you; because many will come using my name and saying "I am the Christ" and they will deceive many.

There are stages in Matthew 24 and what I have been taught is first there are coming those who will deceive others then on down in Matthew 24 it tells us of a time where there will be people who claim Christ is where they say and then false Christ (which will be acting as though they are Christ) and showing signs and wonders is not happening now. Now the elect is going to be active during the tribulation. The Holy Spirit has revealed to me that Matthew 24:5 is not talking about false Christ rather the setting up of the Laodecian church age which it is really began and slowly shifting since the charismatic movement which now it has gone into prosperity preaching.

Matthew 24:
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

 

[for_his_glory]

There are stages in Matthew 24 and what I have been taught is first there are coming those who will deceive others then on down in Matthew 24 it tells us of a time where there will be people who claim Christ is where they say and then false Christ (which will be acting as though they are Christ) and showing signs and wonders is not happening now. Now the elect is going to be active during the tribulation. The Holy Spirit has revealed to me that Matthew 24:5 is not talking about false Christ rather the setting up of the Laodecian church age which it is really began and slowly shifting since the charismatic movement which now it has gone into prosperity preaching.

Matthew 24:
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

The Laodicean Church that was revealed to you can be prophetic of the end of days mystery Babylon (not the Laodicean Church itself) that has made her self rich by her merchandise needing nothing and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked, Rev 3:17; Rev Chapter 17-19. Mystery Babylon being the abomination that causes desolation, Matthew 24:15, that Daniel spoke of in Daniel Chapter 7 who brings forth the son of perdition being the last false prophet, 2Thessalonians 2:3,4, will show great lying signs and wonders, Matthew 24:23,24, that will deceive many as this beast will cause a great falling away from Gods truth for they refused to believe the truth that was taught before them.

 

[Free]

I now see what is happening. The ESV states it as Mat 24:5 For many will come in my name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and they will lead many astray. you are using has changed whereas in the KJV that scripture says:
Matthew 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Now the problem is one little small seemingly insignificant word "the" was added in the ESV version which changed the whole meaning which this is what causes a problem. When one takes time to research into all the different Bible revisions and translations, which is done by a committee of evangelicals, pastors, theologians, etc., one could clearly see there is a pattern of those committees changing words and if anyone would be guilty of making scripture fit their own ideas it would be those of the committees. They would be motivated more than anyone to make those changes yet we allow ourselves, as reasonable thinking humans, to be drawn into such a subtle shifting ending up in such a chaos it causes offense between one another due to translation preferences. I have been into many churches and most all the time I didn't know what version they read from because I carried my King James Version. Deception comes in the form of subtleness like a snake (aka serpent) and before you know it you drawn into the trap. To a blind mind the difference in the scripture above would seem trivial and will find ways to shoot down the original version given to America to make themselves feel justified in believing the way they want. I think some people don't grasp the severity in keeping with the King James Version Bible. There have been much more debates and arguments over scripture since the revisions and translations started.

You show an ignorance of why there are different translations and the reasons for their differences. We can get into that debate if you wish, just not in this thread. What is important here is that you give a good example of why we need to consult others, particularly scholars and theologians when studying the Scriptures.

You claim that the ESV has added "the," "which changed the whole meaning which this is what causes a problem." Not only does it not change the meaning and not cause a problem, if one looks at the Greek behind both the ESV and the KJV, both have "the Christ". It is the KJV which omits "the" from the English. So, if one really wants to argue that a version is wrong, then the KJV is wrong for not including it in translating to the English. However, as I stated, it does not change the meaning.

And the following, by the way, is a logical fallacy known as Poisoning the Well: "To a blind mind the difference in the scripture above would seem trivial and will find ways to shoot down the original version given to America to make themselves feel justified in believing the way they want."

When Jesus said "shall come in my name..." meant in the stead of him. For example: John Doe was invited to a party but John Doe could not attend so he chooses a person to go in his place to stand in which is called sending a representative in the name of John Doe. There will be many people who claim they were sent by Jesus as a representative to stand in for Jesus but in doing that they will use that position to deceive many.

As I stated previously, M. R. Vincent's Word Studies in the New Testament, states:

In my name (ἐπὶ τῷ ὀνόματί μου)
Lit., on my name, i.e., on the strength of; resting their claims on the name Messiah

That is, these people will claim to be the Messiah. Again, another example of why we need to study with the help of others.

The confusion among scripture readers is different translations and versions of the Bible there will not be harmony and the proof has been throughout this forum.
1Corinthians 14:33 For God is not [the author] of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

The "confusion" and lack of "harmony" on these forums has very little, if anything, to do with different translations. A lot of it has to do with posts like this--people who don't consult others when they study the Scriptures and then end up making them say something they don't.

 

[Free]

There are stages in Matthew 24 and what I have been taught is first there are coming those who will deceive others then on down in Matthew 24 it tells us of a time where there will be people who claim Christ is where they say and then false Christ (which will be acting as though they are Christ) and showing signs and wonders is not happening now. Now the elect is going to be active during the tribulation. The Holy Spirit has revealed to me that Matthew 24:5 is not talking about false Christ rather the setting up of the Laodecian church age which it is really began and slowly shifting since the charismatic movement which now it has gone into prosperity preaching.

Matthew 24:
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Sorry, but I don't think it was the Holy Spirit that showed you what Matt. 24:5 is talking about since that has nothing to do with the context, which is how we know what Jesus was talking about. Jesus was speaking of a time after his ascension up to around the time of the destruction of Jerusalem.

 

[Taniesh]

You show an ignorance of why there are different translations and the reasons for their differences. We can get into that debate if you wish, just not in this thread. What is important here is that you give a good example of why we need to consult others, particularly scholars and theologians when studying the Scriptures.

You claim that the ESV has added "the," "which changed the whole meaning which this is what causes a problem." Not only does it not change the meaning and not cause a problem, if one looks at the Greek behind both the ESV and the KJV, both have "the Christ". It is the KJV which omits "the" from the English. So, if one really wants to argue that a version is wrong, then the KJV is wrong for not including it in translating to the English. However, as I stated, it does not change the meaning.

And the following, by the way, is a logical fallacy known as Poisoning the Well: "To a blind mind the difference in the scripture above would seem trivial and will find ways to shoot down the original version given to America to make themselves feel justified in believing the way they want."


As I stated previously, M. R. Vincent's Word Studies in the New Testament, states:

In my name (ἐπὶ τῷ ὀνόματί μου)
Lit., on my name, i.e., on the strength of; resting their claims on the name Messiah

That is, these people will claim to be the Messiah. Again, another example of why we need to study with the help of others.


The "confusion" and lack of "harmony" on these forums has very little, if anything, to do with different translations. A lot of it has to do with posts like this--people who don't consult others when they study the Scriptures and then end up making them say something they don't.

Free I am done with you. I don't know where you come off thinking you are the guru of knowledge but I think you better lay of off me. If you disagree fine but don't have to make a big stink over it. To battle over who is right or wrong according to versions of the Bible is not what I am about. Keep your bible and I will keep my Bible (KJV). So at the end of it all we will see who is right or wrong. I will continue to pray for you though. By the way the only reason you consult others of assumed higher learning (their sheep skinned degrees) is you can not determine to trust that little small voice inside you saying "maybe you should think about what you are doing" perhaps it doesn't prove to you it is real by providing you proof of a degree. Before you assume I am angry try again, I actually feel sorrow for those who listen to your teachings. I will do everything warn people of such deception.