Development of Doctrine

[GodsGrace]

There are two main ethnicities of European Jews: Sephardic and Ashkenazi. Sephardic Jews lived primarily on the Iberian peninsula; my mother's family originated from there. Ashkenazi Jews lived primarily in Eastern Europe and Russia. Mt father's family originated from there.

If Islam was "stopped by the crusades" how come it is still functioning throughout the world?

No Crusades except in Europe!!

Crusades | Definition, History, Map, Significance, & Legacy | Britannica

Crusades, military expeditions, beginning in the late 11th century, that were organized by western European Christians in response to centuries of Muslim wars of expansion. The Crusades took place from 1095 until the 16th century, when the advent of Protestantism led to the decline of papal...

www.britannica.com

 

[GodsGrace]

Not to worry. Am being dragged off to Bridlington and Hull (by my wife) from Friday til Sunday. . Can't wait!

Enjoy the rest of your holiday.

Blessings.

What's in Bridlington and Hull ?

Have friends in Northern London.

 

[jaybo]

No Crusades except in Europe!!

Crusades | Definition, History, Map, Significance, & Legacy | Britannica

Crusades, military expeditions, beginning in the late 11th century, that were organized by western European Christians in response to centuries of Muslim wars of expansion. The Crusades took place from 1095 until the 16th century, when the advent of Protestantism led to the decline of papal...

www.britannica.com

You need to do some more research and/or update your sources.

"The Crusades were a series of religious wars initiated, supported, and sometimes directed by the Latin Church in the medieval period. The best known of these Crusades are those to the Holy Land in the period between 1095 and 1291 that were intended to recover Jerusalem and its surrounding area from Islamic rule. Beginning with the First Crusade, which resulted in the recovery of Jerusalem in 1099, dozens of Crusades were fought, providing a focal point of European history for centuries ... In 1095, Pope Urban II proclaimed the First Crusade at the Council of Clermont. He encouraged military support for Byzantine emperor Alexios I against the Seljuk Turks and called for an armed pilgrimage to Jerusalem ... Later crusades were conducted by generally more organized armies, sometimes led by a king. All were granted papal indulgences. Initial successes established four Crusader states: the County of Edessa; the Principality of Antioch; the Kingdom of Jerusalem; and the County of Tripoli. The Crusader presence remained in the region in some form until the fall of Acre in 1291. After this, there were no further crusades to recover the Holy Land." Source: wikipedia

And here is how your source begins (with my emphasis)...

"Crusades, military expeditions, beginning in the late 11th century, that were organized by western European Christians in response to centuries of Muslim wars of expansion. Their objectives were to check the spread of Islam, to retake control of the Holy Land in the eastern Mediterranean, to conquer pagan areas, and to recapture formerly Christian territories; they were seen by many of their participants as a means of redemption and expiation for sins. Between 1095, when the First Crusade was launched, and 1291, when the Latin Christians were finally expelled from their kingdom in Syria, there were numerous expeditions to the Holy Land, to Spain, and even to the Baltic; the Crusades continued for several centuries after 1291. Crusading declined rapidly during the 16th century with the advent of the Protestant Reformation and the decline of papal authority.

Approximately two-thirds of the ancient Christian world had been conquered by Muslims by the end of the 11th century, including the important regions of Palestine, Syria, Egypt, and Anatolia. The Crusades, attempting to check this advance, initially enjoyed success, founding a Christian state in Palestine and Syria, but the continued growth of Islamic states ultimately reversed those gains. By the 14th century the Ottoman Turks had established themselves in the Balkans and would penetrate deeper into Europe despite repeated efforts to repulse them."

Where did you ever get the idea that there were "no Crusades except in Europe"??

 

[JLB]

A successful, on-topic claim. Do you deny that there were the crusades, the inquisitions, torture, excommunication, murder, etc?

They were more Christians murdered by Catholics than Jews murdered by Hitler.

Read Foxes book of Martyrs or the Scottish Covenanters.



JLB

 

[Niblo]

What's in Bridlington and Hull ?

Have friends in Northern London.

Brid is a seaside resort; usual stuff. Hull has a very large aquarium centre, called the Deep. There are a number of places of interest along the route from our home to Brid, and no doubt we'll be calling in! We pass near York.....another tourist trap!

 

[Mungo]

Come on!
Stick to the topic!
This is not a chat room.

It's not a Protestant vs Catholic atrocity thread or a holiday chat.

 

[Niblo]

Come on!
Stick to the topic!
This is not a chat room.

It's not a Protestant vs Catholic atrocity thread or a holiday chat.

Sorry. Fair do's.

 

[GodsGrace]

Come on!
Stick to the topic!
This is not a chat room.

It's not a Protestant vs Catholic atrocity thread or a holiday chat.

You're the boss here Mungo.
But this has always been done here in micro amounts, of course.

We consider ourselves a small family here and this happens at times.

It's friendly.

 

[GodsGrace]

Come on!
Stick to the topic!
This is not a chat room.

It's not a Protestant vs Catholic atrocity thread or a holiday chat.

Right to your last sentence.

Onward Christian soldier...
Not backwards...

 

[GodsGrace]

You need to do some more research and/or update your sources.

"The Crusades were a series of religious wars initiated, supported, and sometimes directed by the Latin Church in the medieval period. The best known of these Crusades are those to the Holy Land in the period between 1095 and 1291 that were intended to recover Jerusalem and its surrounding area from Islamic rule. Beginning with the First Crusade, which resulted in the recovery of Jerusalem in 1099, dozens of Crusades were fought, providing a focal point of European history for centuries ... In 1095, Pope Urban II proclaimed the First Crusade at the Council of Clermont. He encouraged military support for Byzantine emperor Alexios I against the Seljuk Turks and called for an armed pilgrimage to Jerusalem ... Later crusades were conducted by generally more organized armies, sometimes led by a king. All were granted papal indulgences. Initial successes established four Crusader states: the County of Edessa; the Principality of Antioch; the Kingdom of Jerusalem; and the County of Tripoli. The Crusader presence remained in the region in some form until the fall of Acre in 1291. After this, there were no further crusades to recover the Holy Land." Source: wikipedia

And here is how your source begins (with my emphasis)...

"Crusades, military expeditions, beginning in the late 11th century, that were organized by western European Christians in response to centuries of Muslim wars of expansion. Their objectives were to check the spread of Islam, to retake control of the Holy Land in the eastern Mediterranean, to conquer pagan areas, and to recapture formerly Christian territories; they were seen by many of their participants as a means of redemption and expiation for sins. Between 1095, when the First Crusade was launched, and 1291, when the Latin Christians were finally expelled from their kingdom in Syria, there were numerous expeditions to the Holy Land, to Spain, and even to the Baltic; the Crusades continued for several centuries after 1291. Crusading declined rapidly during the 16th century with the advent of the Protestant Reformation and the decline of papal authority.

Approximately two-thirds of the ancient Christian world had been conquered by Muslims by the end of the 11th century, including the important regions of Palestine, Syria, Egypt, and Anatolia. The Crusades, attempting to check this advance, initially enjoyed success, founding a Christian state in Palestine and Syria, but the continued growth of Islamic states ultimately reversed those gains. By the 14th century the Ottoman Turks had established themselves in the Balkans and would penetrate deeper into Europe despite repeated efforts to repulse them."

Where did you ever get the idea that there were "no Crusades except in Europe"??

Oh for goodness sake Jaybo.
They began in Europe.
Give some credit.

 

[Mungo]

You're the boss here Mungo.
But this has always been done here in micro amounts, of course.

We consider ourselves a small family here and this happens at times.

It's friendly.

I know.
I try to keep a thread on topic or we get anarchy.

 

[jaybo]

Oh for goodness sake Jaybo.
They began in Europe.
Give some credit.

Oh for goodness sake, wondering...

You wrote "No Crusades except in Europe!!" which is simply not true. You didn't say the crusades began in Europe, you said there were no crusades elsewhere.

 

[jaybo]

I know.
I try to keep a thread on topic or we get anarchy.

Anarchy? Are you some sort of authoritarian ruler? (Or just a moderator)

 

[Mungo]

Anarchy? Are you some sort of authoritarian ruler? (Or just a moderator)

As wondering said
We consider ourselves a small family here ......It's friendly.
Let's keep it that way.

 

[jaybo]

As wondering said
We consider ourselves a small family here ......It's friendly.
Let's keep it that way.

You should heed your own advice! You have banned me several times, and have banned others as well. Does that jibe with your idea of a friendly family?

 

[Walpole]

On a phone....
John baptized for the forgiveness of sin.
He said one will come after him that will baptize with or for power.

In Acts 2 the Holy Spirit fell on those present.
If the CC is right about John 3:3,5 then there must surely be 2 types of baptism.

One of water...
One of Spirit.

Jesus said we must be baptized of Water AND of Spirit.

However, I agree with you that water is necessary for baptism unless it's a baptism of desire,,,can't het the CCC no. right now.

Again, baptism, by definition, necessitates water. Yet water by itself is not a baptism and exercises no power on its own; for it is but a material sign of what is communicated spiritually. It is only with the Holy Spirit does it become baptism. For baptism requires water and the Holy Spirit. (cf. John 3:5)

In Christianity, matter...matters.

 

[GodsGrace]

So there is Islamic architecture...so what? There is all varities of architecture all over the world, but that doesn't mean that the entire culture would be overcome.

"The sky is falling, the sky is falling!" Chicken Little

I think you might be a tad paranoid. BTW, I'm descended from Sephardic Jews on my mother's side.

Yes, Jaybo, the sky was falling.
And I'm surprised you won't even admit this.
Had it not been for the crusades, Islam would have overrun Europe and the East.
Luckily, there was a strong church at the time (the CC) that was able to confront the expense and manpower.

 

[GodsGrace]

You just made my point: Christianity descends into subjectivity and eventually chaos.

Of course I knew you'd say this.
If we all understand Christianity our own way, it will descend into chaos.
I do believe it's the strength of the CC that kept our faith stable and together in doctrine.

But I have a problem...
I don't really understand how anyone could accept ALL the dogma/doctrine of the CC.
In a way those that say that Catholics check their brain at the door can be seen to be correct.
This does not mean that Catholics do not own a brain or could think with it...
It means that no other thoughts can be accepted except those that the church stipulates.

Not every Catholic agrees in the perpetual virginity of Mary,
Nor do they believe in going to confession to a priest,
Or that they will go to hell for missing one Mass...(can't think of anything else right now).

I believe the first 2 are dogma and the 3rd doctrine (not sure).
They'll be told to pray about it...
but it's difficult to come to believe in something you just can't accept.

So I guess I'm not too sure about development of doctrine.
I think I like what the Early Fathers taught.

It also demonstrates the folly in starting a religion using another religion’s Scriptures. The Scripture make no sense without the context in which they were written: The Tradition of the Church.

I think you know that the idea has been pushed around that would separate the OT from the NT.
Since Christians are under the Covenant of the New Testament, perhaps the OT is just causing us some confusion and/or grief.

But regarding the scriptures...you can't believe that all Protestant theologians are just plan dumb??
Scholars, after much study in language, culture, etc. come to slightly different conclusions.
This would be true even of Catholic theologians that might slightly disagree with each other.

The Scriptures reflect the living faith of the Church. This is why most of the Protestant attacks are simply absurd. For example, there is a thread going on right now where Protestants are actually arguing that baptism is done without water. For a Christian, this is an absurdity. Only for a Protestant can this type of nonsense be taken seriously.

Agreed. There does seem to be some chaos there, doesn't there?
I guess I'm on a fence...Am I Anglican?? LOL JK

 

[GodsGrace]

There are two main ethnicities of European Jews: Sephardic and Ashkenazi. Sephardic Jews lived primarily on the Iberian peninsula; my mother's family originated from there. Ashkenazi Jews lived primarily in Eastern Europe and Russia. Mt father's family originated from there.

If Islam was "stopped by the crusades" how come it is still functioning throughout the world?

Guess the Crusades couldn't make it around the world.
There was no World Empire.
Europe was concerned about Europe and they joined forces with the East (Jerusalem, etc).

 

[GodsGrace]

You need to do some more research and/or update your sources.

"The Crusades were a series of religious wars initiated, supported, and sometimes directed by the Latin Church in the medieval period. The best known of these Crusades are those to the Holy Land in the period between 1095 and 1291 that were intended to recover Jerusalem and its surrounding area from Islamic rule. Beginning with the First Crusade, which resulted in the recovery of Jerusalem in 1099, dozens of Crusades were fought, providing a focal point of European history for centuries ... In 1095, Pope Urban II proclaimed the First Crusade at the Council of Clermont. He encouraged military support for Byzantine emperor Alexios I against the Seljuk Turks and called for an armed pilgrimage to Jerusalem ... Later crusades were conducted by generally more organized armies, sometimes led by a king. All were granted papal indulgences. Initial successes established four Crusader states: the County of Edessa; the Principality of Antioch; the Kingdom of Jerusalem; and the County of Tripoli. The Crusader presence remained in the region in some form until the fall of Acre in 1291. After this, there were no further crusades to recover the Holy Land." Source: wikipedia

And here is how your source begins (with my emphasis)...

"Crusades, military expeditions, beginning in the late 11th century, that were organized by western European Christians in response to centuries of Muslim wars of expansion. Their objectives were to check the spread of Islam, to retake control of the Holy Land in the eastern Mediterranean, to conquer pagan areas, and to recapture formerly Christian territories; they were seen by many of their participants as a means of redemption and expiation for sins. Between 1095, when the First Crusade was launched, and 1291, when the Latin Christians were finally expelled from their kingdom in Syria, there were numerous expeditions to the Holy Land, to Spain, and even to the Baltic; the Crusades continued for several centuries after 1291. Crusading declined rapidly during the 16th century with the advent of the Protestant Reformation and the decline of papal authority.

Approximately two-thirds of the ancient Christian world had been conquered by Muslims by the end of the 11th century, including the important regions of Palestine, Syria, Egypt, and Anatolia. The Crusades, attempting to check this advance, initially enjoyed success, founding a Christian state in Palestine and Syria, but the continued growth of Islamic states ultimately reversed those gains. By the 14th century the Ottoman Turks had established themselves in the Balkans and would penetrate deeper into Europe despite repeated efforts to repulse them."

Where did you ever get the idea that there were "no Crusades except in Europe"??

Actually, Jaybo, when I was studying there was no internet.
So just because I post wikipedia nowadays, does not mean I learned from Wikipedia.
I'll be the same is for you...unless you're really young.

I hope you read the above, which YOU posted, because your own source verifies everything I've stated.

I just insist because were it not for the Crusades there would be no Christianity.