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Development of Doctrine

I agree that the Orthodox Church can trace its roots back to the apostles but surely the Lutheran cChurch only traces its roots back to Martin Luther.
Perhaps it depends on what you mean by roots.
Actually, denominations are more like branches than roots. The "root" is Jesus Christ: how He lived, what He taught, His sacrifice, etc. All Christianity has its origins in Him, regardless of varying doctrine. The Lutheran denomination, for example, has its origins in the same source as its predecessor, the Catholic denomination, which has its origins in the same source as its predecessor, the earliest Jewish congregations. If there is a single doctrinal root, it is the Jewish faith.

Romans 11:17-18, "But if some of the [Jewish] branches were broken off, and you {Gentiles], a wild olive shoot, were grafted among the others to share the rich root [Judaism] of the olive tree, do not boast over the branches. If you do boast, remember: you do not support the root [Judaism], but the root supports you." NRSVue
 
Actually, denominations are more like branches than roots. The "root" is Jesus Christ: how He lived, what He taught, His sacrifice, etc. All Christianity has its origins in Him, regardless of varying doctrine. The Lutheran denomination, for example, has its origins in the same source as its predecessor, the Catholic denomination, which has its origins in the same source as its predecessor, the earliest Jewish congregations. If there is a single doctrinal root, it is the Jewish faith.

Romans 11:17-18, "But if some of the [Jewish] branches were broken off, and you {Gentiles], a wild olive shoot, were grafted among the others to share the rich root [Judaism] of the olive tree, do not boast over the branches. If you do boast, remember: you do not support the root [Judaism], but the root supports you." NRSVue

You say "The "root" is Jesus Christ"
and then "others to share the rich root [Judaism]"
So which is the root? Jesus Christ of Judaism?
 
I agree that the Orthodox Church can trace its roots back to the apostles but surely the Lutheran cChurch only traces its roots back to Martin Luther.
Perhaps it depends on what you mean by roots.
What the Lutheran church does not have in that trace is a line of Popes.
 
What the Lutheran church does not have in that trace is a line of Popes.
That is the case, thankfully. The office of the Pope is an unscriptural invention of the Catholic denomination.

All Christian churches -- Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant, etc, -- have their origin (and life) in Jesus Christ.
 
Does it have a trace to any of the apostles/
The Orthodox can trace back to some of the apostles, as the Catholic Church can.
Sure, Luther was in fact a Catholic priest. There is the path but does it really matter?

I think it is foolish to argue and debate who can claim connection back to the beginning for it breeds pride. What is more important is where our faith lies and in whom.

3 As I urged you when I was going to Macedonia, remain at Ephesus so that you may charge certain persons not to teach any different doctrine,
4 nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies, which promote speculations rather than the stewardship from God that is by faith.

1 Timothy 1:3-4 NKJV

8 The saying is trustworthy, and I want you to insist on these things, so that those who have believed in God may be careful to devote themselves to good works. These things are excellent and profitable for people.
9 But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless.

Titus 3:8-9 NKJV
 
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Sure, Luther was in fact a Catholic priest. There is the path but does it really matter?

Luther was not a Bishop. he did not have apostolic authority.
I think it is foolish to argue and debate who can claim connection back to the beginning for it breeds pride.
I disagree. It's not about pride but about authority.
In the end all these disputes come down to authority.
 
Development of Doctrine
Jesus didn’t write a detailed theology manual, neither did the apostles. Instead they left a body of teaching , some of which was written down and later canonised as inspired writing.

The Church taught from this “Deposit of Faith”. As heresies arose they had to be countered and much effort of the early Church was spent on countering heresies, especially those on the nature of Christ (Adoptionism, Appolinarism, Arianism, Docetism, Nestorianism, Sabellianism and more).

In the second century two great apologists wrote extensively against heresy. St. Irenaeus write a five volume “Against Heresies” and Justin Martyr wrote two “Apologies” and Dialogue with Trypho (A Jew).

When the Church was no longer persecuted the bishops of the Church could get together in great councils and began to formally define many doctrines but mostly in opposition to heresy, particularly about the nature of God, and Jesus in particular.

Quotes below in are taken from the Catholic Encyclopedia.

The First Ecumenical Council (Nicea, 325)
To this council we owe The Creed (Symbolum) of Nicaea, defining against Arius the true Divinity of the Son of God (homoousios)

The Second Ecumenical Council (Constantinople I, 381)
It was directed against the followers of Macedonius, who impugned the Divinity of the Holy Ghost. To the above-mentioned Nicene Creed it added the clauses referring to the Holy Ghost (qui simul adoratur) and all that follows to the end.

The Third Ecumenical Council (Ephesus 431)
….. defined the true personal unity of Christ, declared Mary the Mother of God (theotokos) against Nestorius, Bishop of Constantinople, and renewed the condemnation of Pelagius.

The Fourth Ecumenical Council
(Chalcedon (451)
…. defined the two natures (Divine and human) in Christ against Eutyches

The Fifth Ecumenical Council (Constantinople II, 553)
Condemned various writings and … confirmed the first four general councils, especially that of Chalcedon whose authority was contested by some heretics.

The Sixth Ecumenical Council (Constantinople III, 680-681)
It put an end to Monothelitism by defining two wills in Christ, the Divine and the human, as two distinct principles of operation. It anathematized Sergius, Pyrrhus, Paul, Macarius, and all their followers.

So well into the 7th century the Church was still fighting heresy about the nature of God and Christ. It is not surprising therefore that other topics such as original sin and Mary took time to develop in understanding and formal definitions.


Doctrine develops
“Is there to be no development of Doctrine in Christ’s Church? Certainly there should be great development.

Who could be so grudging towards his fellow-men and so hostile to God as to try to prevent it? But care should be taken to ensure that it is development of the faith and not alteration. Development implies that each point of doctrine is expanded within itself, while alteration suggests that a thing has been changed from what it was into something different…….

The limbs of infants are tiny, while those of young men are large, but they are the same limbs. The man has no more parts to his body than the little child…as a result it can be said that nothing new is produced in old men that was not already present in an undeveloped form when they were boys…..”
(St. Vincent Lerins - died 445)


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9


  • does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God.



JLB
 
Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons.
1 Timothy 4:1


  • some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons.




JLB
 
Take heed to yourself and to the doctrine. Continue in them, for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you.
1 Timothy 4:16


  • Take heed to yourself and to the doctrine.

  • for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you.






JLB
 
Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9


  • does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God.



JLB
And your point is what?:confused
 
So, although you claim to be Sola Scriptura, you cannot actually point to a single scripture that proves your claim.

I don't "claim to be sola scriptura". I am a person, not a theological doctrine.

Returning to the subject, you don't think that Jesus is our spiritual root? Then who is? The Pope? Peter, the fallible stumbling block?
 
I don't "claim to be sola scriptura". I am a person, not a theological doctrine.
OK. You claim to adhere to the false doctrine of Sola Scriptura.
Is that better.

Returning to the subject, you don't think that Jesus is our spiritual root? Then who is? The Pope? Peter, the fallible stumbling block?

You made the claim.
You provide the scripture.
 
Development of Doctrine
Jesus didn’t write a detailed theology manual, neither did the apostles. Instead they left a body of teaching , some of which was written down and later canonised as inspired writing.

The Church taught from this “Deposit of Faith”. As heresies arose they had to be countered and much effort of the early Church was spent on countering heresies, especially those on the nature of Christ (Adoptionism, Appolinarism, Arianism, Docetism, Nestorianism, Sabellianism and more).

In the second century two great apologists wrote extensively against heresy. St. Irenaeus write a five volume “Against Heresies” and Justin Martyr wrote two “Apologies” and Dialogue with Trypho (A Jew).

When the Church was no longer persecuted the bishops of the Church could get together in great councils and began to formally define many doctrines but mostly in opposition to heresy, particularly about the nature of God, and Jesus in particular.

Quotes below in are taken from the Catholic Encyclopedia.

The First Ecumenical Council (Nicea, 325)
To this council we owe The Creed (Symbolum) of Nicaea, defining against Arius the true Divinity of the Son of God (homoousios)

The Second Ecumenical Council (Constantinople I, 381)
It was directed against the followers of Macedonius, who impugned the Divinity of the Holy Ghost. To the above-mentioned Nicene Creed it added the clauses referring to the Holy Ghost (qui simul adoratur) and all that follows to the end.

The Third Ecumenical Council (Ephesus 431)
….. defined the true personal unity of Christ, declared Mary the Mother of God (theotokos) against Nestorius, Bishop of Constantinople, and renewed the condemnation of Pelagius.

The Fourth Ecumenical Council
(Chalcedon (451)
…. defined the two natures (Divine and human) in Christ against Eutyches

The Fifth Ecumenical Council (Constantinople II, 553)
Condemned various writings and … confirmed the first four general councils, especially that of Chalcedon whose authority was contested by some heretics.

The Sixth Ecumenical Council (Constantinople III, 680-681)
It put an end to Monothelitism by defining two wills in Christ, the Divine and the human, as two distinct principles of operation. It anathematized Sergius, Pyrrhus, Paul, Macarius, and all their followers.

So well into the 7th century the Church was still fighting heresy about the nature of God and Christ. It is not surprising therefore that other topics such as original sin and Mary took time to develop in understanding and formal definitions.


Doctrine develops
“Is there to be no development of Doctrine in Christ’s Church? Certainly there should be great development.

Who could be so grudging towards his fellow-men and so hostile to God as to try to prevent it? But care should be taken to ensure that it is development of the faith and not alteration. Development implies that each point of doctrine is expanded within itself, while alteration suggests that a thing has been changed from what it was into something different…….

The limbs of infants are tiny, while those of young men are large, but they are the same limbs. The man has no more parts to his body than the little child…as a result it can be said that nothing new is produced in old men that was not already present in an undeveloped form when they were boys…..”
(St. Vincent Lerins - died 445)

You wrote "As heresies arose they had to be countered and much effort of the early Church was spent on countering heresies". Countered by the crusades, the inquisitions, torture, excommunication, murder, etc.
 
You wrote "As heresies arose they had to be countered and much effort of the early Church was spent on countering heresies". Countered by the crusades, the inquisitions, torture, excommunication, murder, etc.
Another attempted diversion.
 
OK. You claim to adhere to the false doctrine of Sola Scriptura.
Is that better.



You made the claim.
You provide the scripture.
Close. I adhere to the true doctrine of Sola Scriptura.

I'm not sure what claim you're referring to. If you mean that Jesus is our spiritual root, that is the basis of the New Covenant. John 14:6, "Jesus replied, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

Peter is not the spiritual root, the apostles aren't the spiritual root, the Pope isn't the spiritual root, the Catholic denomination. Jesus is the spiritual root, no one else.


If you want scripture, here it is...

Isaiah 53:2, "He sprouted up like a twig before God, like a root out of parched soil; he had no stately form or majesty that might catch our attention, no special appearance that we should want to follow him."

Isaiah 11:10, "At that time a root from Jesse will stand like a signal flag for the nations. Nations will look to him for guidance, and his residence will be majestic."

Romans 15:12, "And again Isaiah [in 11:10 (Septugint)] says, “The root of Jesse will come, and the one who rises to rule over the Gentiles, in him will the Gentiles hope.”

Revelation 5:5, "Then one of the elders said to me, “Stop weeping! Look, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the root of David, has conquered; thus he can open the scroll and its seven seals.”

Revelation 22:16, “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star!”
 
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