Did Fallen Angels Have Sex with Earthly Women?

[farouk]

W 2:

I'm not sure that what you say is actually self-evident from Scripture itself. (Mind you, there are extra-Biblical sources will all sorts of ideas about angels, but these are not authoritative.)

 

[Watchman_2]

W 2:

I'm not sure that what you say is actually self-evident from Scripture itself. (Mind you, there are extra-Biblical sources will all sorts of ideas about angels, but these are not authoritative.)

I am not using extra-biblical sources. The definition of 'God', in the superlative sense, as given in the Hebrew manuscripts settles it for me.

See Gen. 1:26 -

Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
​

Here, God refers to Himself in the superlative sense. So, when looking at the definition of the Hebrew word elohim [rendered as 'God'], one sees -

H430
אלהים
'ĕlôhı̂ym
el-o-heem'
Plural of H433; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative: - angels, X exceeding, God (gods) (-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.
​

Hence, it is clear to me that God is speaking to the angels in 1:26. That is the basis for my conclusion in my prior post. It was only based upon the Bible.

 

[Alabaster]

I certainly do not see it that way.

In Gen. 1:26, God is speaking to the angels and declaring that he will create man in the likeness and image of God and the angels. Hence, when angels are described in the Bible, they are shown to be young men. If man was created in the image of the angels and man can mate with woman, there is nothing, IMO, in scripture, which precludes angels from having the same capability.

Hence, when I read Gen. 6, it makes perfect sense to me that the fallen angels mated with flesh woman and produced hybrid people. IMO, that was the basis for God having to flood the land -- it was necessary to drown these hybrid people, who were threatenin the pure bloodline to Christ.

God flooded the earth because of wickedness, pure and simple.

 

[farouk]

I am not using extra-biblical sources. The definition of 'God', in the superlative sense, as given in the Hebrew manuscripts settles it for me.

See Gen. 1:26 -

Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
​

Here, God refers to Himself in the superlative sense. So, when looking at the definition of the Hebrew word elohim [rendered as 'God'], one sees -

H430
אלהים
'ĕlôhı̂ym
el-o-heem'
Plural of H433; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative: - angels, X exceeding, God (gods) (-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.
​

Hence, it is clear to me that God is speaking to the angels in 1:26. That is the basis for my conclusion in my prior post. It was only based upon the Bible.

W:

The existence of angels and the fact that in the New Testament we learn about the Son of God 'without Him was not anything made that was made', does not in itself prove anything about the supposed ability of angels to mate with women.

 

[farouk]

God flooded the earth because of wickedness, pure and simple.

A:

Yes, Noah and his family were preserved from judgment.

And the spiritual lesson is, we need to be preserved from judgment by taking heed to God's gracious provision in the Person of the Lord Jesus.

I don't see anything specific about angels mating, in the history of Noah.

 

[Alabaster]

A:

Yes, Noah and his family were preserved from judgment.

And the spiritual lesson is, we need to be preserved from judgment by taking heed to God's gracious provision in the Person of the Lord Jesus.

I don't see anything specific about angels mating, in the history of Noah.

Yes, it is nothing but fantasy and a diversion.

 

[Watchman_2]

God flooded the earth because of wickedness, pure and simple.

I do not share that belief for many reasons. The Bible indicates in Gen. 6:5 that God was only upset with the Adamic race of people -- not the other races. That is why He only flooded the land inhabited by the Adamic race.

Hence, when one reads Gen. 6:9, the reason for the flood becomes quite evident. Noah and his family were the only ones left out of the Adamic race that were not corrupted in lineage by the offspring of the fallen angels.

 

[Watchman_2]

W:

The existence of angels and the fact that in the New Testament we learn about the Son of God 'without Him was not anything made that was made', does not in itself prove anything about the supposed ability of angels to mate with women.

True -- and, I might add that I never said that such NT scriptures in the Book of John made any such inferrence.

However, we learn from Gen. 1:26 that mankind was made in the image of God and the angels. And, one sees in Gen. 6 that offspring are the result of the mating between fallen angels and flesh woman.

So, the proof is quite overwhelming to support the fact that angels did sire offspring.

 

[tim-from-pa]

Just to recap where I stand on various similar issues before commenting on this thread so as I am not confused with certain others here (as I follow the teachings of no specific ministry today):

1. I do not believe in multiple linages of man, nor was he a pre-existant angel (we are created higher than the angels)
2. I do not believe Serpent Seed doctrine

However, I DO believe that

1. Sons of God in Genesis 6:1 were indeed angels that breed with women, and
2. The lost tribes of Israel have migrated to become other nations (for another topic)

Now, from my personal studies, many Jewish apocryphal sources attribute the sons of God to angels, as does the book of Job. I think the evidence is there that this is possible.

The point has been brought up that Jesus said that angels do not marry, nor are given in marriage, and therefore the conclusion is reached that they "can't" reproduce. Well, that's a hasty conclusion. I'll tell you why.

In the book of Enoch, he communicates with these fallen angels when they want him to intercede for them. He scolds them and says to them the same thing that Jesus said (i.e. they are not supposed to marry or be given in marriage), and that women were mortal beings whereas they were immortal. Now, if Enoch is scolding them for their mating behavior, and yet anachronistically "quotes" Jesus so-to-speak, would he be contradicting himself? Me thinks not. What Jesus said is what an angel is supposed to do--- not that the angel is incapable of it.

Now, for some interesting theories about angels and their giant offspring. We have to ask ourselves the origins of Titan gods in mythology? What about Incubus and succubus legends? How about poltergeists? (And notice these creatures have a habit of hanging around their teenage female agent). Aliens doing "reproductive experiments"? Creatures such as big foot? Are these all related and have the MO of Genesis 6?

God created adam (man) to be the steward of this Earth, something that Lucifer failed to do because of his fall. Man was supposed to be god-like, higher than the angels to replace them over this earthly kingdom --- that's the purpose of man's creation. It would make sense due to the devil's envy (as it is called in the apocrypha) that such maneuvers would be done to try to taint the human race to force them in submission to Lucifer. That's the whole purpose of the flood to wipe all them out (but the bible states there are such things going on after that.)

 

[farouk]

True -- and, I might add that I never said that such NT scriptures in the Book of John made any such inferrence.

However, we learn from Gen. 1:26 that mankind was made in the image of God and the angels. And, one sees in Gen. 6 that offspring are the result of the mating between fallen angels and flesh woman.

So, the proof is quite overwhelming to support the fact that angels did sire offspring.

W2:

Far from overwhelming, I think that the inferences mentioned rest substantially on extra-Biblical sources and interpretations, though I realize that some groups do make such assumptions part of their essential theology.

 

[Watchman_2]

W2:

Far from overwhelming, I think that the inferences mentioned rest substantially on extra-Biblical sources and interpretations, though I realize that some groups do make such assumptions part of their essential theology.

Since the Bible manuscripts are not in English, an English-only person, like myself, is dependent upon Hebrew and Greek Concordances to obtain the original-language meaning of the rendered words in the English Bible. Absent the use of a concordance, the English-only person is left to their own imagination as to what the Bible actually means.

Now, you might consider the use of Hebrew and Greek language concordances to be 'extra-Biblical'; however, since the English rendering, itself, is 'extra-Biblical' as compared to the Bible manuscripts, you should be able to acknowledge and agree that the use thereof said concordances is a superior means in understanding scripture than reading the English rendering alone.

 

[theLords]

Serpent seed doctrine is considered heresy and not allowed on this forum outside of the 1-on-1 debate forum:

3 - No active promotion of other Faiths is allowed:

You will not post any messages; links, images or photos that promote a religion or belief other than Biblical and historical Christianity (atheism is considered a "belief" for the purposes of this rule). Discussing these doctrines are fine, as long as the beliefs are not actively promoted. This includes Universal Reconciliation, Universal Salvation, Serpent seed, Dual Seed or Two-Seedline doctrine which are only allowed in the 1 on 1 Debate Forum. This is a Christian Forum as the name suggests.

Violations of the ToS will result in official warnings or infractions at the moderator's discretion.

 

[farouk]

Fact is also that death marks the end of a marriage, whereby according to the NT the person is thereby released from it. How can this apply to an angel?

 

[Watchman_2]

Serpent seed doctrine is considered heresy and not allowed on this forum outside of the 1-on-1 debate forum:

3 - No active promotion of other Faiths is allowed:

You will not post any messages; links, images or photos that promote a religion or belief other than Biblical and historical Christianity (atheism is considered a "belief" for the purposes of this rule). Discussing these doctrines are fine, as long as the beliefs are not actively promoted. This includes Universal Reconciliation, Universal Salvation, Serpent seed, Dual Seed or Two-Seedline doctrine which are only allowed in the 1 on 1 Debate Forum. This is a Christian Forum as the name suggests.

Violations of the ToS will result in official warnings or infractions at the moderator's discretion.

Very well - I won't bring it up in support of this topic.

 

[Watchman_2]

Fact is also that death marks the end of a marriage, whereby according to the NT the person is thereby released from it. How can this apply to an angel?

It doesn't apply to angels. Angels don't marry in their realm. In fact, there is no reference to a 'female' angel in the Bible [that I am aware of].

 

[farouk]

It doesn't apply to angels. Angels don't marry in their realm. In fact, there is no reference to a 'female' angel in the Bible [that I am aware of].

W:

Well, then, it's hard to argue that angels don't marry AND that they mate with women.

 

[Pizzaguy]

The "giant skeletons" were a hoax.

As for "angels having sex with earthly women", what is an angel, and what form to they possess? Would an angel have . . . . "the ability". . . . to have sex? I would hope that anyone would see the problem with this and recognize the impossibility of it.

Wrong again, Deavon! The world is full of idiots. ;)

 

[Watchman_2]

W:

Well, then, it's hard to argue that angels don't marry AND that they mate with women.

If one understands ages of time, it is not difficult to understand. See 2 Pet. 3. This flesh dispensation of time is not the original creation. The concept of mankind procreating is native to this second age, flesh dispensation of time, only.

Hence, in angelic bodies in the first age, all were in bodies immortal. That's why scientists cannot find any flesh remains of humans dating back into the Pleistocene. If one's body is in their immortal state, procreation is both unnecessary and impossible [if all male in form].

 

[stovebolts]

I am not using extra-biblical sources. The definition of 'God', in the superlative sense, as given in the Hebrew manuscripts settles it for me.

See Gen. 1:26 -

Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
​

Here, God refers to Himself in the superlative sense. So, when looking at the definition of the Hebrew word elohim [rendered as 'God'], one sees -

H430
אלהים
'ĕlôhı̂ym
el-o-heem'
Plural of H433; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative: - angels, X exceeding, God (gods) (-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.
​

Hence, it is clear to me that God is speaking to the angels in 1:26. That is the basis for my conclusion in my prior post. It was only based upon the Bible.

Hi Watchman, I would like to comment on something you stated above. I'll quote it again below.

Hence, it is clear to me that God is speaking to the angels in 1:26. That is the basis for my conclusion in my prior post. It was only based upon the Bible.

I'd like to take a look at that assumption if we could. Lets see if we can find a pattern in scripture and go from there ok? We'll start just a few verses back from verse 26.

Genesis 1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that has life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

Who is bringing forth the creatures? Of course, it's the waters. By what authority? Why the authority of God of course.

Now look at the next verse. Genesis 1:21 And God created great sea creatures, and every living thing that moves,


And how did God create the sea creatures etc? Well, we need not look any further than the verse prior to it which states he commanded the waters to bring them forth.

Let's continue.

Genesis 1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth living creatures after their kinds, cattle, and creeping things, and beasts of the earth after their kinds: and it was so.

Do we see a pattern? God commands the Earth to bring forth living creatures, just as the Sea had brought forth the birds and sea creatures. Simply put, it is out of the Earth that the living creatures are brought forth. Yet to be clear, it is by God's sovereign command as noted in verse 25. And God made... And how did he make? By commanding the earth to bring them forth.

This brings us to humanity...

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth.

Our image?.... It should become clear by way of context that the our denotes the Earth, which is a combination of water and dust.

Why do I say this? Because systematically, God commands the waters to bring forth the fish and the fowl (vs. 20) and then commands the earth to bring forth cattle and creeping things (vs 24) and ironically, it is within this order that humanity is granted dominion (vs 26).

Humanity is made of dust (earth) and divine breath (Spirit).[SIZE=-1]

Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.


[/SIZE]

 

[warhorse]

No !! Mark 12 vv25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the ANGELS which are in heaven. Doesn't that kind of indicate that angels don't have sex. Oh and does it really matter the bio line from adam to Noah is established, and all else died in the flood.