Did Jesus teach what is called now Tulip ?

[brightfame52]

Today in our day, there is a acronym called TULIP which stands for:

T the total inability of man as a dead sinner to do anything spiritually good or pleasing to God particularily in the matter of Salvation.

U the unconditional election of some men o salvation due to Gods grace

L the limited and particular and effectual atoning death of Christ

I the irresistible saving converting grace of God

P the preservation unto perseverance of the believer

I believe these are doctrines taught in the scripture, and more importantly, taught by Jesus Christ Himself.

Lets look at the T for a moment, the total inability of man spiritually to do anything towards coming to Christ in Faith and repentance.

Did Jesus teach the T ? I believe He did right here Jn 6:44

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

See that ? No man can come to Christ, that is believe in Him unless drawn by the Father. The no man can come speaks of inability, no doubt about it.

 

[journeyman]

It's natural that people who "heard and learned about the Father", would go to his Son.

The context of our Lords' statement is right here,

And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven? Jn.6:42

In essense, our Savior meant, no one can come to him, unless they love God.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

It's natural that people who "heard and learned about the Father", would go to his Son.

The context of our Lords' statement is right here,

And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven? Jn.6:42

In essense, our Savior meant, no one can come to him, unless they love God.

Interesting

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Today in our day, there is a acronym called TULIP which stands for:

T the total inability of man as a dead sinner to do anything spiritually good or pleasing to God particularily in the matter of Salvation.

U the unconditional election of some men o salvation due to Gods grace

L the limited and particular and effectual atoning death of Christ

I the irresistible saving converting grace of God

P the preservation unto perseverance of the believer

I believe these are doctrines taught in the scripture, and more importantly, taught by Jesus Christ Himself.

Lets look at the T for a moment, the total inability of man spiritually to do anything towards coming to Christ in Faith and repentance.

Did Jesus teach the T ? I believe He did right here Jn 6:44

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

See that ? No man can come to Christ, that is believe in Him unless drawn by the Father. The no man can come speaks of inability, no doubt about it.

Disagree. Doesn’t say anything at all about salvation. Many came to Jesus but they didn’t end up being saved. “Coming to Jesus” doesn’t equate with being saved.

 

[Cooper]

Today in our day, there is a acronym called TULIP which stands for:

T the total inability of man as a dead sinner to do anything spiritually good or pleasing to God particularily in the matter of Salvation.

U the unconditional election of some men o salvation due to Gods grace

L the limited and particular and effectual atoning death of Christ

I the irresistible saving converting grace of God

P the preservation unto perseverance of the believer

I believe these are doctrines taught in the scripture, and more importantly, taught by Jesus Christ Himself.

Lets look at the T for a moment, the total inability of man spiritually to do anything towards coming to Christ in Faith and repentance.

Did Jesus teach the T ? I believe He did right here Jn 6:44

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

See that ? No man can come to Christ, that is believe in Him unless drawn by the Father. The no man can come speaks of inability, no doubt about it.

And when I am lifted up I will draw all men unto me. John 12:32.
You leave out the rest of what Jesus said, which is, "and I will raise him up at the last day.”
Jesus said, I and the Father are one. John 10:30.
.

 

[Cooper]

Out of time!!
Think about it. Jesus said, “No one can come to Me” meaning He was the final arbiter, as he will be when he returns.

Jesus said this to the Jews, who thought they were all chosen or elected by virtue of their physical, natural birth going back to the foundation of the earth. Ring any bells?

They were as wrong then, as those are, who say it today.
.

 

[brightfame52]

Now more on the T in Tulip, Jesus did state the inability of man to come to Him, meaning to believe in Him, for later He equates coming and believing as the same Jn 6:64-65

64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
Now back in Jn 6:44 Jesus uses a word draw, no man has the ability to come /believe in Jesus Christ unless the Father draws him. The greek word for draw is helkō and means:

1. to draw, drag off
2. metaph., to draw by inward power, lead, impel

Now Jesus uses the word in the metaph sense . Jesus isnt talking about dragging someone against their will to come and believe, but they will be powerfully persuaded by the Spirit and Grace of God, being made willing in the day of Gods omnipotent power Ps 110:3

3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.

So when the Father draws one its the commencement of a new Spiritual Birth and a change that has taken place by the Spirit and Grace of God.

This is also the irresistible call of God , when the person is being caused to come Ps 65:4

4 Blessed is the man whom thou choosest, and causest to approach unto thee, that he may dwell in thy courts: we shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house, even of thy holy temple.

Jesus taught both the total inability of man and the Irresistible grace of God in this One verse !

 

[Cooper]

Now more on the T in Tulip, Jesus did state the inability of man to come to Him, meaning to believe in Him, for later He equates coming and believing as the same Jn 6:64-65

64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
Now back in Jn 6:44 Jesus uses a word draw, no man has the ability to come /believe in Jesus Christ unless the Father draws him. The greek word for draw is helkō and means:

1. to draw, drag off
2. metaph., to draw by inward power, lead, impel

Now Jesus uses the word in the metaph sense . Jesus isnt talking about dragging someone against their will to come and believe, but they will be powerfully persuaded by the Spirit and Grace of God, being made willing in the day of Gods omnipotent power Ps 110:3

3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.

So when the Father draws one its the commencement of a new Spiritual Birth and a change that has taken place by the Spirit and Grace of God.

This is also the irresistible call of God , when the person is being caused to come Ps 65:4

4 Blessed is the man whom thou choosest, and causest to approach unto thee, that he may dwell in thy courts: we shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house, even of thy holy temple.

Jesus taught both the total inability of man and the Irresistible grace of God in this One verse !

Draw, contrary to elected.

 

[journeyman]

Interesting

It's true. It's no different from saying,

Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; Jn.8:42

And he is God, so to say, "We know God, we love God, and God is our Father, but we don't love you (Jesus).....isn't possible.

Blessed is the man whom thou choosest, and causest to approach unto thee, Psa.65:4
to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word. Isa.66:2

But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; 1Cor.1:/7
Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him? Jas.2:5

Why do Christians not understand that God chose a kind of people?

 

[brightfame52]

Draw, contrary to elected.

Maybe in your mind

 

[Cooper]

Maybe in your mind

Go on then and make something up.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

It's true. It's no different from saying,

Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; Jn.8:42

And he is God, so to say, "We know God, we love God, and God is our Father, but we don't love you (Jesus).....isn't possible.

Blessed is the man whom thou choosest, and causest to approach unto thee, Psa.65:4
to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word. Isa.66:2

But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; 1Cor.1:/7
Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him? Jas.2:5

Why do Christians not understand that God chose a kind of people?

Today in our day, there is a acronym called TULIP which stands for:

T the total inability of man as a dead sinner to do anything spiritually good or pleasing to God particularily in the matter of Salvation.

U the unconditional election of some men o salvation due to Gods grace

L the limited and particular and effectual atoning death of Christ

I the irresistible saving converting grace of God

P the preservation unto perseverance of the believer

I believe these are doctrines taught in the scripture, and more importantly, taught by Jesus Christ Himself.

Lets look at the T for a moment, the total inability of man spiritually to do anything towards coming to Christ in Faith and repentance.

Did Jesus teach the T ? I believe He did right here Jn 6:44

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

See that ? No man can come to Christ, that is believe in Him unless drawn by the Father. The no man can come speaks of inability, no doubt about it.

They want to think that He unjustly chose them for no reason so they needn’t do anything different than their own desires. If he chose them before they were born, it doesn’t matter how they behave. That’s an appealing theology.

 

[brightfame52]

They want to think that He unjustly chose them for no reason so they needn’t do anything different than their own desires. If he chose them before they were born, it doesn’t matter how they behave. That’s an appealing theology.

So do you believe the natural man has the ability to come/believe on Christ after reading Jn 6:44 ?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

So do you believe the natural man has the ability to come/believe on Christ after reading Jn 6:44 ?

Jesus commands many to believe. How come he doesn’t command God to make them believe? How come he never says that no one can believe unless God makes them believe?

 

[journeyman]

They want to think that He unjustly chose them for no reason so they needn’t do anything different than their own desires. If he chose them before they were born, it doesn’t matter how they behave. That’s an appealing theology.

I know I wasn"t really concerned about my own conduct, before I realized the truth of the gospel,

Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it. Pro.22:6

Since this helpful instruction is true, total depravity cannot be true. Simple as that.

 

[journeyman]

So do you believe the natural man has the ability to come/believe on Christ after reading Jn 6:44 ?

By "natural man", Paul doesn't mean "every human being." Hre's talking about people driven only by the nature of the flesh.

 

[electedbyhim]

Today in our day, there is a acronym called TULIP which stands for:

T the total inability of man as a dead sinner to do anything spiritually good or pleasing to God particularily in the matter of Salvation.

U the unconditional election of some men o salvation due to Gods grace

L the limited and particular and effectual atoning death of Christ

I the irresistible saving converting grace of God

P the preservation unto perseverance of the believer

I believe these are doctrines taught in the scripture, and more importantly, taught by Jesus Christ Himself.

Lets look at the T for a moment, the total inability of man spiritually to do anything towards coming to Christ in Faith and repentance.

Did Jesus teach the T ? I believe He did right here Jn 6:44

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

See that ? No man can come to Christ, that is believe in Him unless drawn by the Father. The no man can come speaks of inability, no doubt about it.

This is excellent.

And yes, our Lord taught these doctrines.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[electedbyhim]

They want to think that He unjustly chose them for no reason so they needn’t do anything different than their own desires. If he chose them before they were born, it doesn’t matter how they behave. That’s an appealing theology.

That is really bad theology on your part, this is not how the Reformed think.

 

[brightfame52]

Jesus commands many to believe. How come he doesn’t command God to make them believe? How come he never says that no one can believe unless God makes them believe?

So then according to Jn 6:44 Jesus is saying that the natural man has the ability to come o Him and believe ?

 

[brightfame52]

By "natural man", Paul doesn't mean "every human being." Hre's talking about people driven only by the nature of the flesh.

Yes every human being enters the world as natural.