Dorothy Mae
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- May 23, 2020
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So when is the “U” coming out so we can shoot that down?
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As far as I know Jesus only had the one conversation with Nichodemus. You know what Jesus said about letting the blind lead the blind, well we haven't only gone the one mile, we have practically gone round the world.That never stopped Jesus.
I meant Jesus didn’t stop telling people the truth just because they wouldn’t receive it.As far as I know Jesus only had the one conversation with Nichodemus. You know what Jesus said about letting the blind lead the blind, well we haven't only gone the one mile, we have practically gone round the world.
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The U comes when someone can't explain why God chose to speak to everyone who could never hear him.So when is the “U” coming out so we can shoot that down?
John 10:30 I and the Father are one.Did Jesus teach unconditional election ?
In John 6:37,39 He talks about them the Father gave Him
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
The Father gave Him a People to redeem before the foundation of the world Eph 1:4-7. They were chosen in Him and were to fall in Adam, hence their need to be redeemed
In vs 37 Jesus uses the present tense for the word give, those who were chosen in Him and given to Him in eternity will be the ones coming to Him then and in the future.
Jesus uses the perfect active indicative for the word given in Vs 39, a action completed in the past with effects into the present. So they had been given to Him once and for all in the past, which indicates their election in Him before the foundation.
It doesn’t logically follow that allDid Jesus teach unconditional election ?
In John 6:37,39 He talks about them the Father gave Him
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
Those were his friends. Jesus taught that in the last days many will fall away from the faith. Many. Jesus did not assume responsibility for them. They weren’t given to Him because he was no longer walking the earth with them.39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
That scripture doesn’t say that or anything even close to that which is likely why you didn’t cut and paste it.The Father gave Him a People to redeem before the foundation of the world Eph 1:4-7. They were chosen in Him and were to fall in Adam, hence their need to be redeemed
No, that is only present tense. Later towards the end he uses exclusively past tense, that he lost (past) none but the one.In vs 37 Jesus uses the present tense for the word give, those who were chosen in Him and given to Him in eternity will be the ones coming to Him then and in the future.
Not at all. They were given to Him AND he chose them to accompany Him and he his apostles and friends. All past tense at the end of his life. Present tense during the training years.Jesus uses the perfect active indicative for the word given in Vs 39, a action completed in the past with effects into the present. So they had been given to Him once and for all in the past, which indicates their election in Him before the foundation.
The earth is the Lord’s and the fullness thereof.Again the property of election is stated in Jesus words Jn 17:2
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him
The "as many as thou has been given him" are separated from the all flesh, thats the principle of election.
Jesus would go on to say, that His prayer of High Priestlyhood wasnt for all mankind, but restricted to them the Father has given Him Jn 17:9
9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
Evidently the whole world in some special sense wasn't Gods, simply put they were of Gods special election of grace.
The earth is the Lord’s and the fullness thereof.
For as many as received Him (notice each man is receiving or choosing Jesus) to them he gave the power to become the sons of God. It’s not saying anyone was given to Jesus first.
So the point turns on when the moment of our choosing and His occurs, which by no means says a different choice can’t be made later. (“I’ll spit you out if my mouth.” Jesus said which is the opposite of beging given and kept.)
For as many as received Him (notice each man is receiving or choosing Jesus) to them he gave the power to become the sons of God. It’s not saying anyone was given to Jesus first.
Please, teach us.The whole of Jesus’ teaching and preaching makes absolutely no sense if the U is true.
Let's do TULIP the correct way...You've changed it a bit to make it sound more pallitable.Today in our day, there is a acronym called TULIP which stands for:
T the total inability of man as a dead sinner to do anything spiritually good or pleasing to God particularily in the matter of Salvation.
U the unconditional election of some men o salvation due to Gods grace
L the limited and particular and effectual atoning death of Christ
I the irresistible saving converting grace of God
P the preservation unto perseverance of the believer
I believe these are doctrines taught in the scripture, and more importantly, taught by Jesus Christ Himself.
Lets look at the T for a moment, the total inability of man spiritually to do anything towards coming to Christ in Faith and repentance.
Did Jesus teach the T ? I believe He did right here Jn 6:44
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
See that ? No man can come to Christ, that is believe in Him unless drawn by the Father. The no man can come speaks of inability, no doubt about it.
Right.The whole of Jesus’ teaching and preaching makes absolutely no sense if the U is true.
For goodness sake...This is wrong
You conveniently left out verse 13
John 1:12-13 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
Grace and peace to you
One of the best responses to Calvinism I have ever read!!Let's do TULIP the correct way...You've changed it a bit to make it sound more pallitable.
The following is what John Calvin taught and also the Westminster Confession of Faith.
(you really should use the bible instead).
T: TOTAL DEPRAVITY.
MAN IS SO DEPRAVED THAT HE IS UNABLE TO SEEK GOD SO THAT GOD MUST PULL HIM OUT OF THE MIRE TO EVEN GET HIS ATTENTION.
Nowhere does scripture state this.
In fact there are 10's of verses that state that God is happy to have those SEEKING HIM.
1 Chronicles 22:19
19 Now devote your heart and soul to seeking the LORD your God.
Acts 17:27
27 God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us.
U: UNCONDITIONAL ELECTION
GOD CHOOSES, FROM THE BEGINNING OF TIME, WHO WILL BE SAVED AND WHO WILL BE DAMNED.
THIS IS KNOWN AS DOUBLE PREDESTINATION. GOD'S CHOICE IS BASED ON NOTHING AT ALL
AND MAN HAS NO SAY IN THE MATTER AND MUST ACCEPT HIS DESTINY AS GOD HAS CHOSEN IT.
Nowhere does scripture state this.
In fact, God desires that we know how to save ourselves.
John 3:16
16“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
Romans 10:17
17Faith comes by hearing the Word of God.
Acts 16:31
31 Believe in the Lord and you will be saved.
L: LIMITED ATONEMENT
JESUS DIDN'T DIE FOR THE WHOLE WORLD, BUT ONLY FOR THE PERSONS GOD CHOSE TO SAVE FROM THE BEGINNING OF TIME.
This teaching is so radical that even some Calvinist theologians cannot accept it.
Jesus died for the whole world, those that wish to can take advantage of this fact.
1 John 2:2
2He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.
John 1:29
The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!
Hebrews 2:9
But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.
I: IRRESTISTIBLE GRACE
THIS MEANS THAT GOD'S GRACE CANNOT BE RESISTED.
BASICALLY, IT MEANS YOU'RE GETTING SAVED, WHETHER YOU WANT TO OR NOT.
IT TAKES AWAY YOUR FREE WILL AND MAKES YOU A ROBOT CREATED BY GOD.
This teaching is not biblical.
Scripture states that God's grace can be resisted. It's up to man to accept it.
Man has free will and God will not impose salvation on those that do not desire it.
Galatians 5:19
19Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,
20idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions,
21envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
John 15:10
10IF you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love.
John 5:40
40and you are unwilling to come to Me, that you may have life.
P: PERSEVERANCE OF THE SAINTS
CALVINISM TEACHES THAT, OF COURSE, IF GOD CHOOSES YOU, HE WILL SEE TO IT THAT YOU MAKE IT TO THE END.
IS THIS WHAT SCRIPTURE TEACHES? IT COULD BE DEBATED.
BUT THIS CANNOT...THE CALVINIST'S SALVATION IS NOT SECURE AFTER ALL...
Who would want to worship such a God as the following?
..that there are two species of calling: for there is an universal call, by which God, through the external preaching of the word, invites all men alike, even those for whom he designs the call to be a savor of death, and the ground of a severer condemnation. Besides this there is a special call which, for the most part, God bestows on believers only, when by the internal illumination of the Spirit he causes the word preached to take deep root in their hearts. Sometimes, however, he communicates it also to those whom he enlightens only for a time, and whom afterwards, in just punishment for their ingratitude, he abandons and smites with greater blindness.
John Calvin's Institutes
Book 3
Chapter 24
Paragraph 8
The sheep are people who believe Jesus,