Did Paul Ever Misspeak?

[Adullam]

It seems to me that we are missing the point. The Word of God is the 'Testimony' of many 'Inspired' men giving Testimony in their own honest Inspired words of testimony. Otherwise why have four of what most call N.T. books? Even with the same INSPIRED Words all being somewhat different. Or why would the complete BOOK be required? Matt. 4:4 + 2 Tim. 3:16? And do not miss Isa. 28:9-10!!

I find only one Isa. 8:20 verse that God Himself gave His EXACT WORD! (which many want to also dump) And it does tell of the TWO there!

--Elijah

This is also a good point. The NT is written as a testimony. This is different than the OT.

The NT is not just a history but it is meant to get us to have faith and enter the same Spirit as they. There is a power that is offered on it's pages. The NT can't be read as a new law book.

Having said that, I refer back to Handy's post for the context aspect!

 

[Sam21]

Jesus taught us to be just. Paul said women can’t speak in church. I think that was unjust.

I believe all we need to know is in the teachings of God and Jesus, when they are directly quoted in the Bible. Paul has much to teach, but I think he was occasionally wrong. I think the Lord thought we would understand this.

Our present definitions of certain things may not agree with the NT,that does not mean that the NT is wrong,Jesus would be called a racists and anti-feminist today because he chose only Jews for His apostles and also chose only males,however Jesus was lead by the Holy Spirit to do what He did.

 

[Larry]

I do believe that Paul misspoke at times. I also believe that Matthew, Mark, Luke and John did as well. As well as Moses, Elijah, Isaiah, and even Amos...they were all human and all prone to mistakes.

I just don't think that anything they ever wrote down that wound up in the Scriptures was misstated. I think the Holy Spirit not only inspired the writers of the Scriptures, but also divinely kept the Scriptures inerrant. I don't believe anything that the Scriptures clearly teach is in error or a "misspeak" by the writer.

.

Well stated and I agree

 

[Sam21]

I am surprised that christians today try to correct the word of God as if we have arrived at some point of moral superiority over the writters of the NT. Jesus came FIRST to the people of Israel,so that makes God a racists by todays standards but possibly God is correct and our standards are not all that good. God chose only males for the apostles and He also insists that males be in authority in the church,so that makes God morally wrong??? If God chose a particular people and blessed them to bring in the Messiah and bless the whole world is it wrong for God to offer them salvation first? If God created the male first it is wrong for God to insist that males be in authority in the church? It seems really weird to me when we in the western world attempt to be more morale then God,specially when we are not at all moral people.

 

[elijah23]

Elijah!!!

You are the only man I have ever met who has said this!!
I believe it too and keep my mouth shut on it because I feel it will make people angry, but you have been brave and given me the inclination to be brave too!

The men who declared all of Paul's letters to be scripture are the same ones who declared a lot of other books to be scripture too! So I have thought that if you think they were inerrant in this declaration, then how is it that you toss out any of the books they declared to be scripture?! You are saying they were inerrant when they declared Paul's letters scripture but they made a mistake when they declared Tobbit and Macabeans, etc., to be scripture!

And Paul even states inplaces in his letters (very FEW places) that he is giving his OPINION, or that he THINKS he has the mind of God on a certain thing.

Jesus quoted from and approved that the OT was the word of God and of COURSE Jesus' own words were the word of God, but when a man says: I give my opinion..........well, I believe this is a different thing than: thus sayeth the Lord. I believe Paul would agree with me if he were here!

Another thing is that I have seen churches insist that women cannot teach but at they DON'T make them cover their heads. They seem to not even SEE the schism there!

You are a brave man for God, Elijah!!!

Thanks. I don’t think it is braver so much, though. I think too often men let their egos get the best of them, and sometimes a person just wants to say, “Enough!â€

 

[elijah23]

The words of Jesus spoken about Paul:
"for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel" Acts 9:15 KJV

The words of Jesus spoken to Paul:
"but rise, and stand upon thy feet; for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen,and of those things in which I will appear unto thee;" Acts 26:16 KJV

And the words of Paul- who Jesus said would be His witness:
"But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ" Gal. 1:11-12

Westtexas

Where does it say that Paul was perfect?

We all learn from the Lord. None of us is perfect.

 

[elijah23]

Do you know why he said that? When you find out, get back to us. While you're at it, find out why Paul didn't want women to have positions of authority in the church.

Then tell me how unjust it was.

I believe Paul said what he said out of pride.

 

[elijah23]

I do believe that Paul misspoke at times. I also believe that Matthew, Mark, Luke and John did as well. As well as Moses, Elijah, Isaiah, and even Amos...they were all human and all prone to mistakes.

I just don't think that anything they ever wrote down that wound up in the Scriptures was misstated.

I trust the historical accounts in the Bible. I trust the words of God and Jesus in the Bible. However, the epistles are not historical accounts and they are not written by God or Jesus. They are written buy several men.

 

[elijah23]

so i dont have to obey the law?

No, you do have to obey the law. The law is found in the teachings of Jesus Christ. It is contained in the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.

 

[elijah23]

isnt my parents a master? my boss, then man with the badge.

Involuntary slavery is an evil thing. You don’t need me to tell you that.

 

[elijah23]

sigh the bible was written to the audience for the time it was in.

If you believe that, then why read it?

I believe Scripture is for all time. However, I think the epistle writers did not possess all knowledge. Paul even says so:

For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall understand fully, even as I have been fully understood. 1 Cor 13:12 RSV

 

[Mike]

I trust the historical accounts in the Bible. I trust the words of God and Jesus in the Bible. However, the epistles are not historical accounts and they are not written by God or Jesus. They are written buy several men.

Elijah, I don't understand where all of this is coming from. Part of me wonders if you've been receiving information from an untrustworthy source, because you've quoted Paul and the other NT writers often.

If you're going to take the stance that the epistles aren't the Word of God, why are you placing disproportionate weight on the quoted Words of Jesus? They were recorded by men as well, after Jesus had ascended into heaven. It's not as though Jesus recorded His Words with His own Hand. :

Paul does not contradict anything Christ Said. Either you have to go on faith that scripture is all Inspired, or you have to question it all, IMO. It was all written by men who were by nature sinful and flawed. God is Greater than their brokenness, and He Speaks His Truth through scripture despite the nature of men.

 

[elijah23]

I'm a little surprised that a Christian would take the way slaves are spoken of by Paul and make them something they are not. I'm not surprised when those who intend to poke holes in scripture do it, but Christians?...

The object is not to raise Scripture. The object is to raise God the Father.

The purpose of Scripture is to point us towards him.

I think the Lord believed we would understand that the epistle writers were wrong occasionally. I do not worship the Bible. I worship the Father in heaven. I don’t think the Father is heaven wants us to see the Bible as a perfect manuscript. I think he wants us to be inspired by it to seek him.

 

[elijah23]

It seems to me that we are missing the point. The Word of God is the 'Testimony' of many 'Inspired' men giving Testimony in their own honest Inspired words of testimony. Otherwise why have four of what most call N.T. books? Even with the same INSPIRED Words all being somewhat different. Or why would the complete BOOK be required? Matt. 4:4 + 2 Tim. 3:16? And do not miss Isa. 28:9-10!!

I find only one Isa. 8:20 verse that God Himself gave His EXACT WORD! (which many want to also dump) And it does tell of the TWO there!

--Elijah

I believe the Word of God is the parts of the Bible where God or Jesus, who I believe is God in flesh, are directly quoted.

 

[elijah23]

Our present definitions of certain things may not agree with the NT,that does not mean that the NT is wrong,Jesus would be called a racists and anti-feminist today because he chose only Jews for His apostles and also chose only males,however Jesus was lead by the Holy Spirit to do what He did.

I am not concerned with what people would call Jesus today.

Jesus, I believe, was God in flesh.

 

[elijah23]

I am surprised that christians today try to correct the word of God as if we have arrived at some point of moral superiority over the writters of the NT. Jesus came FIRST to the people of Israel,so that makes God a racists by todays standards but possibly God is correct and our standards are not all that good. God chose only males for the apostles and He also insists that males be in authority in the church,so that makes God morally wrong??? If God chose a particular people and blessed them to bring in the Messiah and bless the whole world is it wrong for God to offer them salvation first? If God created the male first it is wrong for God to insist that males be in authority in the church? It seems really weird to me when we in the western world attempt to be more morale then God,specially when we are not at all moral people.

I believe the Word of God is limited to the times God or Jesus are directly quoted in the Bible.

Jesus told us to be just. How can you give your blessings to the teachings of Paul when they state slaves should obey their masters or women should keep silent in church? This isn’t rocket science. We know what is just and what isn’t just, and these things seem most unjust to me.

Paul was a great man, but he had his failings. It is best if we try not to adopt those failings—we have enough of our own.

 

[elijah23]

If you're going to take the stance that the epistles aren't the Word of God, why are you placing disproportionate weight on the quoted Words of Jesus?

Jesus, I believe, is God in flesh. God decided to come to earth as a human being, so he did so as Jesus Christ.

Jesus spoke only the truth, and his commandments must be obeyed. If we obey his commandments, our problems disappear. If we disobey his commandments, our problems multiply.

 

[elijah23]

If you're going to take the stance that the epistles aren't the Word of God, why are you placing disproportionate weight on the quoted Words of Jesus? They were recorded by men as well, after Jesus had ascended into heaven. It's not as though Jesus recorded His Words with His own Hand. :

Scripture can always be counted on to provide an accurate account of historical occurrences. You can trust its quotations to be accurate. Scripture says that of itself. Why read it, otherwise?

But there is a difference between recording events and sermons, and trying to understand the Lord’s will, which is what the epistle writers are trying to do.

 

[JustWondering]

Paul was a human being who wrote letters containing his opinions on various matters. How do you know any of these letters were inspired? Of the 13 epistles attributed to Paul, scholars only agree that 7 of them were indisputably written by him. Most scholars (even conservative, evangelical scholars) agree that the other 6 are questionable, and may possibly have been forgeries.

In addition, in Galatians 1 Paul states very emphatically that he got his gospel directly from God, and that he didn't consult with any of the other apostles for 3 years. However, in Acts 9 it states very clearly that he did meet with the disciples immediately after his conversion. How do you explain the apparent discrepancy?

Lastly, the New Testament was not canonized until long after these letters were written. Many letters and other gospels were excluded for various reasons. How do we know Paul's letters (especially the ones suspected to be forgeries) are part of God's inspired word? Given the fact that it took centuries to establish the final New Testament canon, and that those decisions were made by flawed men with their own agendas, how do we have confidence that Paul's writings are in fact what God wanted us to hear.

In my opinion, there is no evidence, so you just have to accept it completely by faith. This is exactly why billions of Muslims believe the Koran is Allah's divine revelation. There is zero evidence for it, but they accept it because they were taught to.

 

[elijah23]

Paul does not contradict anything Christ Said. Either you have to go on faith that scripture is all Inspired, or you have to question it all, IMO. It was all written by men who were by nature sinful and flawed. God is Greater than their brokenness, and He Speaks His Truth through scripture despite the nature of men.

I do not question the statements of God or Jesus in the Bible. They speak only the truth and must be obeyed to the letter.

I do not question the historical accounts of the Bible.

As for the epistles, how can one not question Paul when he tells women to remain silent in church?

Don’t have faith in the Bible. It can’t save you. Have faith in God the Father.