Bible Study Did the remaining 11 Apostles jump the Gun?

[joseph lentz]

When the Apostles drew lots to find a replacement for Judas,I don't think that was led of God.
Acts 9:15,16 Leaves me to think God already had a planned replacement in mind.

 

[civilwarbuff]

When the Apostles drew lots to find a replacement for Judas,I don't think that was led of God.
Acts 9:15,16 Leaves me to think God already had a planned replacement in mind.

So, are you suggesting that Paul, not Matthias was supposed to replace Judas?

 

[reba]

Drawing lots was a common practice

 

[joseph lentz]

So, are you suggesting that Paul, not Matthias was supposed to replace Judas?

Yes......I realize it was a few years down the road. But yes,I suggest that.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Yes......I realize it was a few years down the road. But yes,I suggest that.

That would suggest that the will of God was thwarted as Paul seems to be considered something of an outsider by the other apostles; his acceptance seem to be reluctant by the apostles.

 

[joseph lentz]

That would suggest that the will of God was thwarted as Paul seems to be considered something of an outsider by the other apostles; his acceptance seem to be reluctant by the apostles.

A lot of people are considered outsiders,none so much as Jesus was however. Shoot look how the one dude on here stays on me. But.....Just because the disciples did it doesn't mean it was ordained of God.I hear people in church all the time saying,even though it was wrong,"Well it must be what God wanted",or "If God didn't want it it wouldn't have passed". Because we make a bad decision doesn't mean God was all for it. Though he may use it as in this case of the 11.

 

[JohnDB]

OK...
Considering that Ephraim and Manassas we're adopted by Jacob as children...

Exactly how many individual tribes of Israel were actually in existence?

 

[joseph lentz]

OK...
Considering that Ephraim and Manassas we're adopted by Jacob as children...

Exactly how many individual tribes of Israel were actually in existence?

Is this for me?
I don't get the connection off hand.

 

[Papa Zoom]

Job 42:2"I know that you can do all things; no purpose of yours can be thwarted.

Isaiah 14:27 For the LORD Almighty has purposed, and who can thwart him? His hand is stretched out, and who can turn it back?

If God purposed it, it happed according to HIS purpose.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Yes......I realize it was a few years down the road. But yes,I suggest that.

You're here and instead of asking questions you are teaching a false gospel. God wrote the book of Life before He created the the Earth or any thing else, known as Pre-destination and few have, prayerfully, dug into the subject.

Anything we choose to study from the scriptures must be done prayerfully and in complete submission to the Holy Spirit that indwells men. There are two attributes of God that impress, even men. These are His Omniscience and His Omnipotence. Being omnipotent, there is nothing God cannot do but we want to understand His omniscience. Omniscience means God is everywhere at the same time. Now you might ask, "What does that have to do with Predestination?"

People have two major opinions in the Aea of Predestination, either they do not believe in it or they believe God is a Capricious Being sending a few to Heaven and the bulk He created for no other reason than to spend Eternity in the Abyss/Lake of Fire, moaning in agony.

That cannot be if the Bible is truth and it is truth. When we includes everybody. a look at Jon 3:16-18 we find that God so loved the world (in this case of us and every one else) that He sent His only Son to die for in our pace. In 2Pet 3:8-10 we find that God would have none to perish but that they shoulde come and repent and to worship Him. But the scriptures teach Predestination and therefore we need to understand it.

Now we think about God's Omniscience!
This means there is no place we can go to or be in that God is not there. And since nothing existe until God began to create (John 1:1-3) there was no Space/Time Continuum, God, to have created it is outside of it's influence, He is not contained by it as we are until we are given our Glorified Bodies. God's Omniscience not only places Him in every time at the same time. God, right now is here with us, He is, right now, in the past and He is right now in the future. God is everywhere in every time period at the same time giving Him the ability to kmow the very moment we will be saved, Predestination made logical.

 

[joseph lentz]

You're here and instead of asking questions you are teaching a false gospel. God wrote the book of Life before He created the the Earth or any thing else, known as Pre-destination and few have, prayerfully, dug into the subject.

Anything we choose to study from the scriptures must be done prayerfully and in complete submission to the Holy Spirit that indwells men. There are two attributes of God that impress, even men. These are His Omniscience and His Omnipotence. Being omnipotent, there is nothing God cannot do but we want to understand His omniscience. Omniscience means God is everywhere at the same time. Now you might ask, "What does that have to do with Predestination?"

People have two major opinions in the Aea of Predestination, either they do not believe in it or they believe God is a Capricious Being sending a few to Heaven and the bulk He created for no other reason than to spend Eternity in the Abyss/Lake of Fire, moaning in agony.

That cannot be if the Bible is truth and it is truth. When we includes everybody. a look at Jon 3:16-18 we find that God so loved the world (in this case of us and every one else) that He sent His only Son to die for in our pace. In 2Pet 3:8-10 we find that God would have none to perish but that they shoulde come and repent and to worship Him. But the scriptures teach Predestination and therefore we need to understand it.

Now we think about God's Omniscience!
This means there is no place we can go to or be in that God is not there. And since nothing existe until God began to create (John 1:1-3) there was no Space/Time Continuum, God, to have created it is outside of it's influence, He is not contained by it as we are until we are given our Glorified Bodies. God's Omniscience not only places Him in every time at the same time. God, right now is here with us, He is, right now, in the past and He is right now in the future. God is everywhere in every time period at the same time giving Him the ability to kmow the very moment we will be saved, Predestination made logical.

You do make it hard to be civil.
I am not teaching and I did most definately ask a question.........Did the remaining 11 Apostles jump the Gun?
If you were truly steadfast in your beliefs,my opinions wouldn't bother you.You say I am always teaching,but it always comes out in the end as you trying to teach me.
In compliance with the rules of the forum I will give you this scripture.Matt.7:6

 

[joseph lentz]

Job 42:2"I know that you can do all things; no purpose of yours can be thwarted.

Isaiah 14:27 For the LORD Almighty has purposed, and who can thwart him? His hand is stretched out, and who can turn it back?

If God purposed it, it happed according to HIS purpose.

Hi Papa Zoom,
My initial thought/post/comment was,Did God purpose that action? This is just my opinion and is subject to change.

 

[reba]

Lev_16:8 And Aaron shall cast lots upon the two goats; one lot for the LORD, and the other lot for the scapegoat.
Jos 18:6 Ye shall therefore describe the land into seven parts, and bring the description hither to me, that I may cast lots for you here before the LORD our God.
Jon 1:7 And they said every one to his fellow, Come, and let us cast lots, that we may know for whose cause this evil is upon us. So they cast lots, and the lot fell upon Jonah.

Know it was common to cast lots has in part kept me for thinking the same as you joseph lentz .. Stronger then the lots casting is the fact God is building His Church .. He knew when it was time for Saul to become Paul

 

[joseph lentz]

Lev_16:8 And Aaron shall cast lots upon the two goats; one lot for the LORD, and the other lot for the scapegoat.
Jos 18:6 Ye shall therefore describe the land into seven parts, and bring the description hither to me, that I may cast lots for you here before the LORD our God.
Jon 1:7 And they said every one to his fellow, Come, and let us cast lots, that we may know for whose cause this evil is upon us. So they cast lots, and the lot fell upon Jonah.

Thank you very much,that's all I needed.
Not a brow beating every time I post. Thanks again!

 

[Eugene]

When the Apostles drew lots to find a replacement for Judas,I don't think that was led of God.
Acts 9:15,16 Leaves me to think God already had a planned replacement in mind.

Dear Brother joseph lentz, I hope this helps with your question.
Act 1:26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.
1 Cor 15:5 And that He (Jesus) was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve: (Note that Judas was no longer part of the twelve)

Note the following excerpt from a study of Acts at: http://www.gracegod.com/Study Books/Acts of the Apostles.pdf
NOTE: The Grace and Glory Study books are in PDF format and can be read with the free Adobe Reader

“Let Paul answer for himself. In I Corinthians 15, he is recounting the occasions on which Christ was seen and by whom, after His resurrection. He declares that "He was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve ... after that, He was seen of James, then of all the apostles. And LAST OF ALL, He was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time" (Verses 5-8). A careful study of the following citations shows that there were at least seven other apostles besides the 12, and that Paul was one of that group. (Acts 19:22 with II Corinthians 8:18, 23; I Thessalonians 1:1 and 2:6 with II Corinthians 1:19; Acts 14:14; I Corinthians

4:6, 9; Philippians 2:25) The word "messenger" in II Corinthians 8:23 and Philippians 2:25 is "apostle" in the original Greek text. It is translated apostle in the Revised Version. Paul was the chief apostle of another group, the Church, for another and distinct purpose, even as Peter was the leader of the 12 apostles of the Lamb.”

 

[joseph lentz]

Dear Brother joseph lentz, I hope this helps with your question.
Act 1:26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.
1 Cor 15:5 And that He (Jesus) was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve: (Note that Judas was no longer part of the twelve)

Note the following excerpt from a study of Acts at: http://www.gracegod.com/Study Books/Acts of the Apostles.pdf
NOTE: The Grace and Glory Study books are in PDF format and can be read with the free Adobe Reader

“Let Paul answer for himself. In I Corinthians 15, he is recounting the occasions on which Christ was seen and by whom, after His resurrection. He declares that "He was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve ... after that, He was seen of James, then of all the apostles. And LAST OF ALL, He was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time" (Verses 5-8). A careful study of the following citations shows that there were at least seven other apostles besides the 12, and that Paul was one of that group. (Acts 19:22 with II Corinthians 8:18, 23; I Thessalonians 1:1 and 2:6 with II Corinthians 1:19; Acts 14:14; I Corinthians

4:6, 9; Philippians 2:25) The word "messenger" in II Corinthians 8:23 and Philippians 2:25 is "apostle" in the original Greek text. It is translated apostle in the Revised Version. Paul was the chief apostle of another group, the Church, for another and distinct purpose, even as Peter was the leader of the 12 apostles of the Lamb.”

That makes perfect sense. I now remember another Apostle mentioned in Acts I think,that was not one of the original 12.
Thank you.

 

[Papa Zoom]

Hi Papa Zoom,
My initial thought/post/comment was,Did God purpose that action? This is just my opinion and is subject to change.

I believe he did. It's unlikely God had another choice and they chose someone different than God's choice. It's more likely that God's man was chosen by divine purpose. Either that or God didn't have a choice of the person, only the task and could certainly work with whomever. But of course God knew the outcome before it happened which throws out more questions IMO.

 

[Jim Parker]

Yes......I realize it was a few years down the road. But yes,I suggest that.

What about Apollos and Barnabas, Andronicus and Junias? They were also apostles.
There is more than one meaning for the word "apostle".
There are the original 12 apostles who were with the Lord from the beginning.
(Being with the Lord from the beginning was an agreed requirement to replace Judas Iscariot. Acts 1:20-22)
There were also others who were called to be sent out as preachers to the pagans and to bring them to Christ. That was the group in which we find Paul.

iakov the fool

 

[joseph lentz]

I believe he did. It's unlikely God had another choice and they chose someone different than God's choice. It's more likely that God's man was chosen by divine purpose. Either that or God didn't have a choice of the person, only the task and could certainly work with whomever. But of course God knew the outcome before it happened which throws out more questions IMO.

Thank you,
My mind is settled now.
Thanks again.

 

[th1b.taylor]

You do make it hard to be civil.
I am not teaching and I did most definately ask a question.........Did the remaining 11 Apostles jump the Gun?
If you were truly steadfast in your beliefs,my opinions wouldn't bother you.You say I am always teaching,but it always comes out in the end as you trying to teach me.
In compliance with the rules of the forum I will give you this scripture.Matt.7:6

You are, without even knowing it, teaching and you opinions do not trouble me on any level other than children surf the web and read the things that are posted and I do not want anyone t osin unknowingly. God does count that also. I don't understand what the sixth verse of Matt. 7 has to deo with this though, ca you give me some idea of whaqt you thought it meant and we can discuss it.