Did the Son have a beginning?

Randy, can you fully understand God as being one God in three Persons? That's the Trinity, which the word means as "Tri" (three) and "nity" (unity)? How can you fit that truth, which is plainly presented especially in the Gospel of John, into your reason? Or don't you believe in the Trinity at all? I'm curious.

Jesus as God's firstborn Son is a mysterious combination of his divine nature that has existed forever and his human nature, which began when the Holy Spirit made Mary conceive and give birth to him. Do you believe that biblical teaching?
Stating fully God and fully Human does have a foundation of mystery especially since it's stated He had the spirit of a man and a human body. What part of Him was God? What part of Him descended from above into that body if not His own Spirit? As I stated the only way you can check all the boxes is to assign Him two spirits. The created spirit of a man and the Spirit of the Son as you believe. Did He also have two minds? Oh brother!
Can you understand Jesus's Father is the only true God as Jesus, who is the head of the body of Christ, states? Why would He state it if it weren't so? TRUTH

Gods Firstborn is from the very beginning of the creation and is before all things except His Father. He is a child of the Father. A Son. If wasn't the Father Son then whose Son was He?

Are they equal?
Jesus="My God and Your God" "My Father and your Father"
Hebrews 1:9 Therefore God, YOUR GOD has...
John 14:28 The Father is greater than I (Do you believe what Jesus states is not always true?)
 
Philippians 2:5 - 11

Php 2:5-11 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus: (6) Who, existing in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, (7) but emptied Himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in human likeness. (8) And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to death— even death on a cross. (9) Therefore God exalted Him to the highest place and gave Him the name above all names, (10) that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, (11) and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Therefore GOD exalted Him.. (singular not 3 persons)
Col 1:19 -from the will of another and Jesus was chosen before the world began not at the incarnation.
The Son is the image of the invisible God not the invisible God.
The Son is the radiance of the Fathers glory and the imprint of the Fathers very being for in Him dwells all the fullness of the Fathers Deity. He has the Fathers nature in Him not His own. In this context He is all that the Father is (God)
 
You believe differently, but you do not know differently. If the Father had a beginning, it necessarily is by another being. To say he caused his own existence is as irrational as scientific naturalists claiming the universe came into being on its own. It's a logical impossibility, that also contradicts Scripture.
I know Jesus and I know who He is. There is no such thing as eternally begotten. He is begotten.
An opinion based on Scripture and sound reasoning.
Don't we all make that claim?
Of course, but God did no originate.
The only thing I know with certainty is the Father is unbegotten. It would have been easy for Him to state He was never formed but He never did.
He did state, no God was formed before me rather than no God was before me. That suggests to me He doesn't share your belief in a God such as Himself with no beginning.
.

Yes, that goes without saying.


It's basic reasoning. If he created all that exists, including space and time, then he cannot not have ever existed. This is why he is a necessary being--all else is contingent on his existence; he necessarily has always existed.
Spirit from someplace else other than our known universe is no greater a mystery than always existed. I don't know. I know the Father is unbegotten.
If my reasoning is "useless," prove it. Your saying so doesn't make it so.
We have gone back and forth many times apparently, we disagree that what we present is proof of a certainty. Both ways not just me.
I never said you were.


Of course he doesn't. And that means that he has always existed. It cannot be otherwise.
He never stated so. Therefore, I don't either. He did state no God was formed before Him.
Thus, "IF the Father has a beginning it can't be by any other being" is certainty.
"Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me." All the gods of the nations are man-made, they are formed. The entire point is that there has never been another god and there will never be another god, other than Yahweh. It absolutely does not imply that God had a beginning. That is to completely ignore the context of the entirety of Scripture.
I noted "was formed" in speaking of a God such as Himself. Rather than no God was before me. I understand the context of the first and last.
If you think the God of the Bible had a beginning, that he did not always exist, then he cannot be the God of the Bible and is a god of your own imagination. If God came into existence, then that would have been the beginning of space and time and he would have been the first created thing, created by himself no less, which is nonsense.
I don't know. I state IF..
You have often repeated this, but it shows that you are still continuing to ignore passages such as John 1:1-3, 14, and Phil. 2:5-8. That, or you simply do not understand them. The Son has always been God, but became flesh, voluntarily.
I believe He is a child of the Father in stating the word Son. He is the Fathers offspring. He is begotten. I don't share your belief in eternally begotten. He has the Fathers nature in Him. Col 1:19 and I believe He was chosen before the world began not at the incarnation. He is a Son.
The problem for you is that the Holy Spirit is called the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ, among others.
Thats not a problem for me.
The source of the truth Jesus testified to as He states is His Father. "The Spirit of truth"
The Father as the true God is Holy. "The Holy Spirit" "The Spirit of God"
The Father sent the Spirit in Jesus's name "The Spirit of Christ"
The Spirit of God speaks only what He hears not on His own.
The point of will of the mind of Jesus=>The Spirit acts=>The Spirit of Christ
The point of will of the mind of the Father=>The Spirit of the sovereign Lord.
Only believers have the Spirit of Christ in them, but one cannot be a believer if they don't have the God of the Bible.
The Father sends His Spirit in Jesus's name so both the Father and Son make their home with the believer.
The Spirit in the persona of the Son in the believer I would think would be conveying the will and presence of the mind of Christ. The Father is stated as the only true God from whom all things come in the NT and the source True God in the creeds (True God FROM True God) it His Spirit always and the one He calls His very own.
Fathers promise-In the last days I will pour out MY Spirit..
Jesus-whom the Father will send in my name.
Yes, I know.


Yes, "this other advocate." You don't even know what you have said here. As I pointed out in the other thread, and you ignored, an advocate is necessarily a person; advocates cannot be non-persons. Jesus was the first advocate and the Holy Spirit was the second.
There is no 3rd mind. "The mind of the Father and the mind of Christ" So Father and Son.
The Father states "My Spirit"
And Jesus states another advocate whom the Father will send in His name.
The Son asks the Father -The Father sends through the Son. There is no 3rd will involved in this sending.
The Spirit came, so how can he not be involved?
The Father sent His Spirit in Jesus's name. There is no 3rd Will shown is this sending. I would think if this 3rd person was being sent Jesus would ask Him not the Father.
Matt. 28:19, for one. He is an advocate, for another. Perhaps you should actually address all that I posted in that other thread, HERE.
Another from Jesus such as the Father sending His Spirit in Jesus's name.
Its Christ in us.
And the point is if its Jesus's Spirit why is He speaking of it as another?
Don't you believe the Son's spirit is Deity? Why wouldn't He send His very own spirit on His own? If it's not the person of the Son or the person of the Father why is He not asking the person the Spirit to come? Its clear to me the Father sent the Spirit He calls His own in Jesus's name.
I have the Spirit of Christ in me and my body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who Jesus also calls the Spirit of truth.
Jesus calls the Father the only true God its clear to me the Spirit of God is the Fathers Spirit.
Again, if "one God, the Father" precludes the Son from being God, then it necessarily follows that "one Lord, Jesus Christ" precludes the Father from ever being Lord. But we know that the Father is also called Lord.
Again it stated one God the Father and one Lord Jesus Christ and Lord can mean ones sovereign. Also nothing was stated about this 3rd mind you believe in such as God the Spirit.
There is a distinction being made that's not captured by orthodox trinity statements.
God is our Father who is the source of all things. Jesus is not our Father and is the agent used in all things given by the Father.
Also again, if "from whom all things came" speaks of the Father's timeless, eternal nature, then it necessarily follows that "through whom all things came" speaks of the Son's timeless, eternal nature. It cannot be otherwise. If either the Father or the Son had a beginning, then that verse is self-contradictory and false.
I don't share your reasoning or opinion. Even all things coming from the Father alone doesn't state to me He has no beginning. He never stated so.
Those are both based on basic logic and sound reasoning.
I disagree.
What is your point with these statements? Are you trying to somehow show that the Holy Spirit isn't also a person by ignoring a host of other verses and passages and posting only those which appear to support your position? That's not good biblical exegesis.
The person of the Father. In certain contexts the person of the Son. There is no 3rd distinct mind shown.
I don't understand what you're trying to say here.
They shall all be taught by God.
How is this so if not by the Spirit of truth?
Who is that person?
Those who listen and learn from the Father..
Just as in the Son the source of truth is the person of the Father doing His work. Not some other 3rd mind apart from the Father or Son. There is only one Spirit as we read. And as I have stated to you It's the Father in the Son and the Fathers Spirit and in us the Fathers Spirit sent in Jesus's name.
Where?


And Thomas states Jesus is his Lord and his God. The Father also implies the Son is Yahweh in Heb. 1:10-12. Your position is going to remain contradictory as long as you ignore those passages which don't fit your position.
It is truthful accounting of what took place. In Thomas's moment of shock and awe at Jesus suddenly appearing before him that's what he stated. "My Lord and God" Like you I consider all that is written of Him.
 
Therefore GOD exalted Him.. (singular not 3 persons)
Of course God is singular--there is only one God. You are erroneously equating monotheism with the nature of God (whether he is one person or three). Those are two distinct ideas that need to be dealt with separately. You're also ignoring the context.

Php 2:5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus,
Php 2:6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,
Php 2:7 but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.
Php 2:8 And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.
Php 2:9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name,
Php 2:10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
Php 2:11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. (ESV)

Some important points to note about this passage:

1. Jesus was in "the form of God." This is supported by John 1:1c--" and the Word was God." The NIV has a clearer rendering of what is meant in verse 6: "being in very nature God." The Expositor's Greek Testament and M. R. Vincent (Word Studies in the New Testament) agree. That Paul is referring to the divinity of Christ is without question.

2. He "did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped"; that is, being in the form of God, being equal with the Father, he did not consider that equality something to be "forcefully retained [or held onto]." The meaning is that anything to do with the appearance of his glory as God had to be let go of or veiled in order for the completion of his humiliation, which was necessary for man's salvation. Again, the NIV brings out the meaning a bit better: "did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage."

3. He, being Jesus (the Son), emptied himself. It was he who did the emptying. In other words, he had to already exist in order to be able to be “emptied,” and he had to be sufficiently powerful to do it himself. That is, in contrast with his “taking the form of a servant,” he was something else. He had to be something or someone that was capable of emptying himself. (cf. 2 Cor 8:9)

4. In emptying himself, he took on the "form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men"--this is what John 1:14 is speaking of. First, note that Paul is contrasting Jesus's "taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men" with being in the "form of God." This supports "being in the form of God" as referring to his nature as God, as "the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men," clearly refers to his human nature. Second, the emptying of himself was accomplished by taking on human form. It’s a paradoxical emptying by addition; a limiting or veiling of his glory and power by becoming human. Jesus willingly chose to take the form of a human for the salvation of mankind and, as God Incarnate, still maintained his full deity (since God can never cease to be God) in becoming truly and fully human.

5. Being found in "appearance as a man" (NIV)--as opposed to his having been in "the form of God." We know that he was truly human, so why would Paul suddenly say that Jesus was "found in appearance as a man"? Would that not imply that he existed previously, supporting verse 6, and indicate he wasn't a man before?

6. He "humbled himself by becoming obedient." This is exactly why he prays to the Father, does the Father's will, and only speaks what he hears. He subjected himself to the law of God and obeyed it perfectly, fulfilling it and becoming the sacrificial "Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world" (John 1:29, ESV).

7. He is given “the name that is above every name so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow. ... and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.” This is language used of God:

Isa 45:22 “Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other.
Isa 45:23 By myself I have sworn; from my mouth has gone out in righteousness a word that shall not return: ‘To me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear allegiance.’ (ESV)

This is why Christians rightly worship Christ as God.

The whole point of this passage is to show the humility of Christ, which we are to have (verses 1-5). There is no greater example of humility that could be conceived than that of God (the Son) coming to earth and taking on the form of one of his creatures.

Col 1:19 -from the will of another and Jesus was chosen before the world began not at the incarnation.
Col 1:16 For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him.
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together. (ESV)

If the Son had a beginning, if he came into being, then verses 16 and 17 are false. Again, basic logic. If "all things were created through him," then if necessarily follows that he is eternal.

The Son is the image of the invisible God not the invisible God.
But what does it mean to be "the image of the invisible God"? It's easy to post what the Bible says, but that doesn't mean one has actually understood it; atheists do it all the time.

Apart from Col. 1:16-17 providing context that proves your assertion wrong and contradictory, we have many other things, such as:

1Ti 6:15 which he will display at the proper time—he who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords,
1Ti 6:16 who alone has immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one has ever seen or can see. To him be honor and eternal dominion. Amen. (ESV)

That's speaking of the Father.

Rev 17:14 They will make war on the Lamb, and the Lamb will conquer them, for he is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those with him are called and chosen and faithful.” (ESV)

Rev 19:16 On his robe and on his thigh he has a name written, King of kings and Lord of lords. (ESV)

Those are speaking of Jesus.

The Son is the radiance of the Fathers glory and the imprint of the Fathers very being for in Him dwells all the fullness of the Fathers Deity. He has the Fathers nature in Him not His own. In this context He is all that the Father is (God)
Similar to the above, what does it mean that the Son "is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature" (Heb. 1:3, ESV)? What does it mean that "For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily" (Col. 2:9, ESV)? Note that we also have the contexts of Heb. 1:10-12 and Col. 1:16-17 to take into account, as well as passages such as John 1:1-3, John 20:28, Rom. 9:5, Rom. 10:9-13, 1 Cor. 8:6, Phil. 2:5-8, 2 Pet. 1:1, 1 John 4:8, 16, and so many others.

Sons are always of the same nature as their fathers, and we are the analogues to God. That means that when God reveals himself to us with a Father and Son relationship, we can understand that the Son is of the same nature as the Father. Since the Father's nature is, among other things, eternal, it follows that the Son is also eternal. It cannot be otherwise.

You are fond of saying that the Son is "all that the Father is," except that you think the Son isn't eternal. Those are two irreconcilably contradictory beliefs. If the Son is not eternal, if he is not truly God, then he absolutely cannot be all that the Father is. Again, logic works against you.

It's worth noting that you didn't even deal with what Phil. 2:5-8 says, but rather simply pitted Scripture against itself. This strongly suggests that you are not willing to understand what all these passages actually mean. It seems that you're just interested in proof-texting to try and prove your position. But, as I have shown repeatedly, it just ends up resulting in contradictions, because it ignores so much important context and sound reasoning, and therefore cannot be correct.
 
where you get the idea that Jesus has existed for ever ? he ha a beginning, granted we dont know how long ago that was . he would not exist at all if his God an father had not caused him to come into existence .
Jesus is only begotten of the Father, which refers to him eternally preexisting as very word of God , as begotten refers not to be a created being, but has always existing in the beginning
 
yes, from the will of another
Col 1:19
But all the fullness of the Fathers Deity dwells in the Son. (gifted not newly formed)

The only begotten God or the only like to like begotten Son of the Father
Jesus is the only eyewitness of the Father from the beginning of the creation who has appeared in flesh.
Jesus was and is the Creator of all that was created and existed
 
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Perhaps some of you have come across teachings that explore Jesus' eternal nature. Maybe others have questions about how this aligns with God the Father being the one and only God (Deuteronomy 6:4).

Deuteronomy 6:4 refers to Elohim: the Triune God, being one in unity.
 
Jesus was and is the Creator of all that was created and existed
from proverbs 8
When he (Jehovah God) established the heavens, I was there( Jesus speaking ) When he(Jehovah God) set a circle upon the face of the deep, When he made firm the skies above, When the fountains of the deep became strong, When he gave to the sea its bound, That the waters should not transgress his commandment, When he marked out the foundations of the earth; Then I was by him, as a master workman; And I was daily his delight, Rejoicing always before him, Rejoicing in his habitable earth; And my delight was with the sons of men.
 
Deuteronomy 6:4 refers to Elohim: the Triune God, being one in unity.
Elohim In comparison ,more closely resembles everything that is included in earthly Governments from the bottom to the top. Elohim is everything in the heavenly kingdom
 
Elohim In comparison ,more closely resembles everything that is included in earthly Governments from the bottom to the top. Elohim is everything in the heavenly kingdom

Elohim is the Godhead; Father, Son, Holy Spirit.
 
Jesus was and is the Creator of all that was created and existed
God created all things through Him. His Deity.
Your confusing "from whom" with "through whom"
Hebrews 1
In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe

Rev 4:11
“You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they were created and have their being
 
God created all things through Him. His Deity.
Your confusing "from whom" with "through whom"
Not relevant. If "all things" were created through the Son, and they were as multiple verses attest, then the Son, by definition, cannot have come into being.

Hebrews 1
In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe

Rev 4:11
“You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they were created and have their being
And, yet, as you keep ignoring:

Heb 1:8 But of the Son he [the Father] says . . .
...
Heb 1:10 And, “You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the work of your hands;
Heb 1:11 they will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment,
Heb 1:12 like a robe you will roll them up, like a garment they will be changed. But you are the same, and your years will have no end.” (ESV)

Psa 102:1 A Prayer of one afflicted, when he is faint and pours out his complaint before the LORD. Hear my prayer, O LORD; let my cry come to you!
...
Psa 102:24 “O my God,” I say, “take me not away in the midst of my days— you whose years endure throughout all generations!”
Psa 102:25 Of old you laid the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands.
Psa 102:26 They will perish, but you will remain; they will all wear out like a garment. You will change them like a robe, and they will pass away,
Psa 102:27 but you are the same, and your years have no end. (ESV)

The Father is implying that the Son is also Yahweh who created everything by applying Psalm 102:25-27 to the Son. There is no other conclusion.
 
Of course God is singular--there is only one God. You are erroneously equating monotheism with the nature of God (whether he is one person or three). Those are two distinct ideas that need to be dealt with separately. You're also ignoring the context.
Not God the Father, Son. Holy Spirit BUT GOD singular
Php 2:5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus,
Php 2:6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,
Php 2:7 but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.
Php 2:8 And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.
Php 2:9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name,
Php 2:10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
Php 2:11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. (ESV)
I believe the Son who was had all the fullness of the Deity in Him -the Fathers nature
I didn't read though He was God, I read He was in the form of God

Some important points to note about this passage:

1. Jesus was in "the form of God." This is supported by John 1:1c--" and the Word was God." The NIV has a clearer rendering of what is meant in verse 6: "being in very nature God." The Expositor's Greek Testament and M. R. Vincent (Word Studies in the New Testament) agree. That Paul is referring to the divinity of Christ is without question.
An honest reading of God was the Word is the Word had the Fathers nature. I believe that. Then and now.
2. He "did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped"; that is, being in the form of God, being equal with the Father, he did not consider that equality something to be "forcefully retained [or held onto]." The meaning is that anything to do with the appearance of his glory as God had to be let go of or veiled in order for the completion of his humiliation, which was necessary for man's salvation. Again, the NIV brings out the meaning a bit better: "did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage."
Why would He need to grasp if He was Deity it could never end period. You can't empty Deity. You can empty Gods Firstborn. That should be a good reason for you why God chose that route as He Himself could never come down and live in flesh. His glory alone greatly disrupts the earth's atmosphere.
the
3. He, being Jesus (the Son), emptied himself. It was he who did the emptying. In other words, he had to already exist in order to be able to be “emptied,” and he had to be sufficiently powerful to do it himself. That is, in contrast with his “taking the form of a servant,” he was something else. He had to be something or someone that was capable of emptying himself. (cf. 2 Cor 8:9)
Yes, He did not the Father which is not possible.
4. In emptying himself, he took on the "form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men"--this is what John 1:14 is speaking of. First, note that Paul is contrasting Jesus's "taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men" with being in the "form of God." This supports "being in the form of God" as referring to his nature as God, as "the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men," clearly refers to his human nature. Second, the emptying of himself was accomplished by taking on human form. It’s a paradoxical emptying by addition; a limiting or veiling of his glory and power by becoming human. Jesus willingly chose to take the form of a human for the salvation of mankind and, as God Incarnate, still maintained his full deity (since God can never cease to be God) in becoming truly and fully human.
Yes, He overcame the world as a servant even though the Father brought the world into existence through Him. As we read the world did not recognize Him.
5. Being found in "appearance as a man" (NIV)--as opposed to his having been in "the form of God." We know that he was truly human, so why would Paul suddenly say that Jesus was "found in appearance as a man"? Would that not imply that he existed previously, supporting verse 6, and indicate he wasn't a man before?
Yes, a body was prepared for Him and the Son who was, the spirit of the firstborn from the beginning of the creation was in that body.
6. He "humbled himself by becoming obedient." This is exactly why he prays to the Father, does the Father's will, and only speaks what he hears. He subjected himself to the law of God and obeyed it perfectly, fulfilling it and becoming the sacrificial "Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world" (John 1:29, ESV).
Yes, He had to learn to rely on God.
7. He is given “the name that is above every name so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow. ... and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.” This is language used of God:
Yes, He received from the Father who has not received from any other being. He sat down with the Father on His Fathers throne.
It's the throne of God and the lamb forever.

Isa 45:22 “Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other.
Isa 45:23 By myself I have sworn; from my mouth has gone out in righteousness a word that shall not return: ‘To me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear allegiance.’ (ESV)
We know who Jesus calls the ONLY true God.
This is why Christians rightly worship Christ as God.
I worship Christ the Lord and God my Father. This is the will of the Father. Those who love the Son are loved by the Father.
The whole point of this passage is to show the humility of Christ, which we are to have (verses 1-5). There is no greater example of humility that could be conceived than that of God (the Son) coming to earth and taking on the form of one of his creatures.
I believe in the Son of Man and He will return on the clouds of heaven just as He stated at His trial.
Why the need? Don't you state He is coeternal. And this is in reference to the 2nd coming.
“In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.
Col 1:16 For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for Him.
Yes through Him and for Him. By Him, God in Him, spoke to us in these last Days. By Him, God in Him, created.
The Father living in Him doing His work. I believe in this oneness.
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together. (ESV)
Before all things except His God and Father. He is the beginning of the creation of God and the firstborn of all creation. In Him, by Him, through Him and for Him God our Father created all things. His Deity.
If the Son had a beginning, if he came into being, then verses 16 and 17 are false. Again, basic logic. If "all things were created through him," then if necessarily follows that he is eternal.
Likewise if He doesn't have a beginning then all things couldn't have come from the Father.
Coeternal beings can't be from any other person. They wouldn't have a God or Father.
But what does it mean to be "the image of the invisible God"? It's easy to post what the Bible says, but that doesn't mean one has actually understood it; atheists do it all the time.
Col 1:3 -I believe this but we differ on how this is so.
This is different -He is the invisible God and there would be no need to state He is the image as He is God
Apart from Col. 1:16-17 providing context that proves your assertion wrong and contradictory, we have many other things, such as:
I disagree
1Ti 6:15 which he will display at the proper time—he who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords,
Mighty God, prince of peace, everlasting Father -The only begotten God/Son
1Ti 6:16 who alone has immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one has ever seen or can see. To him be honor and eternal dominion. Amen. (ESV)
Yes Jesus is the only eyewitness who has appeared in flesh
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Not relevant. If "all things" were created through the Son, and they were as multiple verses attest, then the Son, by definition, cannot have come into being.
Yes, it is relevant. Just as God spoke to us in these last days BY His Son. -Jesus, the Father living in Him doing His work.
Jesus was chosen before the creation of the world not at the incarnation. Col 1:19
And, yet, as you keep ignoring:

Heb 1:8 But of the Son he [the Father] says . . .
The Nicene creed which is your teacher -"Through Him all things were made"
As I have point out before it the same writer stating both in Hebrews.
And if God spoke to us by His Son -The Fathering living in Him doing His work
Then God created by His Son is sound reasoning -The Father in Him doing His work Col 1:19
...
Heb 1:10 And, “You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the work of your hands;
Heb 1:11 they will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment,
Heb 1:12 like a robe you will roll them up, like a garment they will be changed. But you are the same, and your years will have no end.” (ESV)
The Fathers Deity in Him created by Him.
Psa 102:1 A Prayer of one afflicted, when he is faint and pours out his complaint before the LORD. Hear my prayer, O LORD; let my cry come to you!
...
Psa 102:24 “O my God,” I say, “take me not away in the midst of my days— you whose years endure throughout all generations!”
Psa 102:25 Of old you laid the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands.
Psa 102:26 They will perish, but you will remain; they will all wear out like a garment. You will change them like a robe, and they will pass away,
Psa 102:27 but you are the same, and your years have no end. (ESV)

The Father is implying that the Son is also Yahweh who created everything by applying Psalm 102:25-27 to the Son. There is no other conclusion.
He also states He's the God of the Son just as Jesus calls the Father His God. You think that equal?
And its about the Son not about God.

But about the Son he says,

“Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever;
a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.
9You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God has set you above your companions
by anointing you with the oil of joy

If the Son was Yahweh everything would already be His and He wouldn't have a need to receive anything from any other nor would He have a God.
But He received Sovereign authority and was appointed heir of all things.
There is a reason the Father calls His Firstborn God. Col 1:19 As this was His doing.
 
who is the holy spirit ?

The Holy Spirit is God; the Spirit of God.

When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him. And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”
Matthew 3:16-17
 
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