[_ Old Earth _] Dinosaurs ?

[th1b.taylor]

God? Is that you?

Sorry I mistook you for the judge of hearts for a minute.

Strange that you can assess the hearts of 2% of 2 billion people. How did you come to this calculation? One day you just imagined.. oh there is only about 4 million Christians based upon that is the number of people who fit the stringent requirement of salvation.

What a hoot! How about you worry about your own status... mmkay?

Cute but no prise pops. Had you research the site here you would have found the source of my information but... you didn't. With the troll remarks I should drop you right there but I'm going to play nice.

In the eighties, before I converted, the Barna Group did a double blind, yes or no, as I understand it, survey. To take this survey, with no manner of knowing who said what to get the most honest answers possible, your Pastor had to swear that you attended worship or prayer services no less than three times a week. these were known as the Faithful. The yes or no check boxed questions were all on the Basic Tenants of the Christian Faith. the questions were, but not limited to;
Do you believe in the Virgin Birth?
Do you believe that Jesus died to pay the sin debt you owed?
Do you believe Jesus is returning to take you to Heaven?
Do you believe Jesus is God?
These are not the exact questions and it is my understanding the questions covered all the tenants of the faith. the blind sheet of questions resulted in less than two percent of the faithful said they believed all off the tenants and knowing people for almost three score and ten years now, some of those answering yes lied out of fear. Experiance taught me that from watching and listening to folks.

Now, as I've repeatedly asked your cohort, don't troll here, it isn't allowed. When sought to belittle me, not allowed, you included God, in no manner allowed. This is another form of trolling and I'm old enough to know better than to fight with you, with words or otherwise.

 

[th1b.taylor]

http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/dinos.shtml
The link covers the subject as seen in the scriptures.

 

[th1b.taylor]

https://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=dinosaurs+in+the+bible&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

And this one looks even better. and a google for 'dinosaurs in the bible' found over three million results, I trust this solves the issue.

 

[lordkalvan]

When ("If" for those of you of little faith) God creates things in our world is it not reasonable that they are created with the appearance of age. Did God create Adam as a newborn - no, he was created as a man with some appearance of age. When God created a partner for Adam (Eve) did he create her as a newborn. I'm not seeing how this would translate into God being dishonest and purposely trying to deceive us.

I don't know if this analogy helps, but when forgers produce 'old masters' they try to make them look old for a purpose, that purpose being to make people think they are old and thus to deceive them as to their true age. On the face of it, the age of Earth and the Universe does not seem to be a salvation issue, so I am not altogether clear why YECs are so focused upon it.

 

[lordkalvan]

http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/dinos.shtml
The link covers the subject as seen in the scriptures.

All these arguments about 'dinosaurs in the Bible' are, unfortunately, wholly unsupported by any corroborating independent evidence. African Lesothosauruses and African Gazelles are similarly sized and share similar habitats and yet, despite living in the same geographical location, never have remains of the two been found together. There are numerous other examples that attest to the fact that 'modern' species are never found fossilised in the same strata as dinosaurs, the only reasonable conclusion being that they did not live at the same time.

 

[Doulos Iesou]

Cute but no prise pops. Had you research the site here you would have found the source of my information but... you didn't. With the troll remarks I should drop you right there but I'm going to play nice.

In the eighties, before I converted, the Barna Group did a double blind, yes or no, as I understand it, survey. To take this survey, with no manner of knowing who said what to get the most honest answers possible, your Pastor had to swear that you attended worship or prayer services no less than three times a week. these were known as the Faithful. The yes or no check boxed questions were all on the Basic Tenants of the Christian Faith. the questions were, but not limited to;
Do you believe in the Virgin Birth?
Do you believe that Jesus died to pay the sin debt you owed?
Do you believe Jesus is returning to take you to Heaven?
Do you believe Jesus is God?
These are not the exact questions and it is my understanding the questions covered all the tenants of the faith. the blind sheet of questions resulted in less than two percent of the faithful said they believed all off the tenants and knowing people for almost three score and ten years now, some of those answering yes lied out of fear. Experiance taught me that from watching and listening to folks.

Now, as I've repeatedly asked your cohort, don't troll here, it isn't allowed. When sought to belittle me, not allowed, you included God, in no manner allowed. This is another form of trolling and I'm old enough to know better than to fight with you, with words or otherwise.

Of course, so this survey (with no source and performed back in the 80s is now representative of 2 Billion people who call themselves Christians.

Not every Christian is properly educated on the "essentials," and as you can't really see what's in their heart, you have no idea of their relationship with Christ.

Did you have a perfect knowledge of all the right doctrine upon being saved, that God just kind of downloads what's right, directly into your brain?

I don't think so.

 

[Doulos Iesou]

https://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=dinosaurs in the bible&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

And this one looks even better. and a google for 'dinosaurs in the bible' found over three million results, I trust this solves the issue.

I found 2.6 Million results from searching 911 Conspiracy, that too must mean that the conspiracy is true right?

You see how this is a fallacious argument. How about presenting the argument yourself.

How come you guys never want to do that, you criticize, but when asked to offer you throw up google searches and hour long videos and ask us to figure it out.

Uh... no thanks, how about you show us, like we show you.

 

[Rick W]

How about everyone presenting their evidence WITHOUT analysis or voiced opinion of another.

ToS applied outside this forum:

1) Give other members the respect you would have them give to yourself. (ToS 2.4)
Address issues/ideas, not persons or personalities. Do not insult, publicly post derogatory opinions of others, post insinuation to belittle or discredit, or otherwise create a hostile environment. Present evidence for support or rebuttal during debate. Bashing the author of another view or opinion is not evidence.




This is the science forum and all have consented to an agreement for access.
Within that agreement...

In addition to the basic rules of our Terms of Service, we have clarified and intend to enforce the following guidelines below. We require and expect each and every member who is granted access to the Christianity and Science Forum to agree and adhere to these guidelines:

2- Respect each other's opinions. Address issues, not persons or personalities.

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Also within that agreement:
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Consider this fair warning to operate within the guidelines set forth by the agreement.
If one cannot abide by the agreement then access will be revoked.

I cannot be any plainer than that.

 

[th1b.taylor]

All these arguments about 'dinosaurs in the Bible' are, unfortunately, wholly unsupported by any corroborating independent evidence. African Lesothosauruses and African Gazelles are similarly sized and share similar habitats and yet, despite living in the same geographical location, never have remains of the two been found together. There are numerous other examples that attest to the fact that 'modern' species are never found fossilised in the same strata as dinosaurs, the only reasonable conclusion being that they did not live at the same time.

And you say that but as I recall the You Tube videos have been posted here that do, indeed refute your claims. It is up to the directors of the Natural History Museum Directors as to what is displayed and where. Like wise, it is up to the authors of the text books as to the included in their works. Their fossilized remains are, indeed, found in the same strata.

Now, I know, Conspiracy Theories! But, look at Lucy, any that have studied this subject at all know about Lucy in some manor. Lucy, it seems is not even a bone and she was built and fleshed with just one bone, trash science! And now I have read that the DNA markers demonstrate Lucy was a boy. And on top of that, the DNA! There could have been no DNA if the bone was as old as claimed and yet the DNA is there. Now, I don't know for a surety but, just, what strata were they examining that they believe gave them that age factor that has turned out to not be true, Iḿ betting that they were in, what was considered the proper strata and yet they found a male Chimp's bone there where Dinosaurs are found.

 

[th1b.taylor]

I was just looking for the last 45 minutes or so and found these of which there are well over a hundred such dealing with the Christian perspective from the scriptures.

there is an importance to all of this, as it relates to the Bible and one's perspective on it, the Bible, inspired by God, says that god stands alone and that we must live by faith, faith in Him that created us, to be acceptable to Him. we also see in the encounter of Jesus, with Satan, the Devil. Jesus said to him at the proper time that man should never temp God. When we get cute and make catty remarks, we then, do tempt God, just, as we do when we try to correct His very words... we are not equal with God, in any manor.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Of course, so this survey (with no source and performed back in the 80s is now representative of 2 Billion people who call themselves Christians.

Not every Christian is properly educated on the "essentials," and as you can't really see what's in their heart, you have no idea of their relationship with Christ.

Did you have a perfect knowledge of all the right doctrine upon being saved, that God just kind of downloads what's right, directly into your brain?

I don't think so.

Dolos,
Matthew 7:14, that Christian survey does not stand alone.

 

[th1b.taylor]

All these arguments about 'dinosaurs in the Bible' are, unfortunately, wholly unsupported by any corroborating independent evidence. African Lesothosauruses and African Gazelles are similarly sized and share similar habitats and yet, despite living in the same geographical location, never have remains of the two been found together. There are numerous other examples that attest to the fact that 'modern' species are never found fossilised in the same strata as dinosaurs, the only reasonable conclusion being that they did not live at the same time.

kalvan,
For any follower of Christ/God the scripture is self interpreting because of a spiritual element the indwelling of the Holy Spirit adds to each of us. The one absolute authority in the Galaxy is God and His Word is in absolutely no need of external proofs but if you're interested enough you can do the research on the thousands of external proofs for scripture. (I will not, however, be engaged in this forum in that endeavor and if I give you a lead you must do the study, yourself.)

 

[lordkalvan]

And you say that but as I recall the You Tube videos have been posted here that do, indeed refute your claims. It is up to the directors of the Natural History Museum Directors as to what is displayed and where. Like wise, it is up to the authors of the text books as to the included in their works. Their fossilized remains are, indeed, found in the same strata.

This is all rather vague and non-specific. Can you cite some actual examples that we can look at?

Now, I know, Conspiracy Theories! But, look at Lucy, any that have studied this subject at all know about Lucy in some manor. Lucy, it seems is not even a bone and she was built and fleshed with just one bone, trash science!

Repeating a slogan does not make something true that is not: the Lucy fossil comprises hundreds of bone fragments that make up approximately 40% of the skeleton.

And now I have read that the DNA markers demonstrate Lucy was a boy. And on top of that, the DNA! There could have been no DNA if the bone was as old as claimed and yet the DNA is there. Now, I don't know for a surety but, just, what strata were they examining that they believe gave them that age factor that has turned out to not be true, Iḿ betting that they were in, what was considered the proper strata and yet they found a male Chimp's bone there where Dinosaurs are found.

What you bet is not evidential. Evidence from the Lucy skeleton indicates she was, indeed, female and certainly not a chimpanzee. I have seen no reports about Lucy's DNA and would be grateful if you could cite one of these.

 

[lordkalvan]

kalvan,
For any follower of Christ/God the scripture is self interpreting because of a spiritual element the indwelling of the Holy Spirit adds to each of us. The one absolute authority in the Galaxy is God and His Word is in absolutely no need of external proofs but if you're interested enough you can do the research on the thousands of external proofs for scripture. (I will not, however, be engaged in this forum in that endeavor and if I give you a lead you must do the study, yourself.)

So that's no independent, corroborating evidence then and I am simply to accept 'dinosaurs' are referenced in the Bible based solely on your interpretation?

 

[twinc]

All these arguments about 'dinosaurs in the Bible' are, unfortunately, wholly unsupported by any corroborating independent evidence. African Lesothosauruses and African Gazelles are similarly sized and share similar habitats and yet, despite living in the same geographical location, never have remains of the two been found together. There are numerous other examples that attest to the fact that 'modern' species are never found fossilised in the same strata as dinosaurs, the only reasonable conclusion being that they did not live at the same time.

of course just because you don't know or have not been told does not make it so - see www.TheGrandExperiment.com/livngfossils by Dr.Carl Werner - twinc

 

[lordkalvan]

of course just because you don't know or have not been told does not make it so - see www.TheGrandExperiment.com/livngfossils by Dr.Carl Werner - twinc

Can I refer you to my reply at Post 64 the first time you proffered this link, a reply that so far remains unanswered?

'Perhaps you can quote exactly what Werner is referring to as the citations you link to seem to require payment to access. I am aware that Werner has been quoted in support of this claim before, but when the small print is examined it is usually found that he is referring to phyla rather than species, a sleight of hand that seems intended to draw in the gullible:

'"We found fossilized examples from every major invertebrate animal phylum living today including: arthropods (insects, crustaceans etc.), shellfish, echinoderms (starfish, crinoids, brittle stars, etc.), corals, sponges, and segmented worms (earthworms, marine worms).

'"The vertebrates—animals with backbones such as fish, amphibians, reptiles, birds and mammals—show this same pattern."

'Dr Carl Werner quoted at http://creation.com/werner-living-fossils.'

 

[th1b.taylor]

This is all rather vague and non-specific. Can you cite some actual examples that we can look at?

Repeating a slogan does not make something true that is not: the Lucy fossil comprises hundreds of bone fragments that make up approximately 40% of the skeleton.

What you bet is not evidential. Evidence from the Lucy skeleton indicates she was, indeed, female and certainly not a chimpanzee. I have seen no reports about Lucy's DNA and would be grateful if you could cite one of these.

I gave you the links above and you, what, refuse to check?

 

[th1b.taylor]

So that's no independent, corroborating evidence then and I am simply to accept 'dinosaurs' are referenced in the Bible based solely on your interpretation?

And there is you probllem, I have interpreted nothing. reread that post, you missed it.

 

[lordkalvan]

I gave you the links above and you, what, refuse to check?

I see no links to papers that discuss evidence showing:

1. That Lucy is reconstructed from one bone.

2. That Lucy is a 'boy'.

3. That DNA from Lucy has been recovered and analysed.

4. That Lucy is a chimpanzee.

 

[th1b.taylor]

of course just because you don't know or have not been told does not make it so - see www.TheGrandExperiment.com/livngfossils by Dr.Carl Werner - twinc

He didn't like he evidence when we presented that before. Growing up in Texas I found one unchanging truth, a man can lead a donkey to the well but it is impossible to make it drink. Not trying to be cute but the Texas parable applies.