Christian Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
-
Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
-
Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
-
-
-
How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
-
Do Animals Go To Heaven ?
- Thread starter Lewis
- Start date
Vic C.
Member
Metaphors... the horses are metaphors, IMO. Horses played a large part in battles and wars, right up to and including WW1.Gabbylittleangel said:I was thinking that I should have posted this here.
http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopi ... highlight=
and I see that I posted something similar to it already in this thread.
Rev 19:11-14 ¶ And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him [was] called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war....
...And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
My question to Lewis is this: Where did all of the horses come from?
N
Newkid00
Guest
Vic C. you're right. The horses are metaphors, and a lot of stuff in the Book of Revelations are metaphors. I still hope animals go to heaven. :angel:
Gabbylittleangel
Member
Metaphor 1. A figure of speech in which a word or phrase that ordinarily designates one thing is used to designate another, thus making an implicit comparison.
:eggface:
Hmmm. It would have to be a metaphor for something that is not an animal, in order to fit into this thread. No doubt that you did a word search in you attempt to off the horses and support your doctrine.
Lewis, the Greek word is hippos :-D what are you gonna be riding?
Maybe it is a metaphor for Harley-Davidson Hogs.
:eggface:
Hmmm. It would have to be a metaphor for something that is not an animal, in order to fit into this thread. No doubt that you did a word search in you attempt to off the horses and support your doctrine.
Lewis, the Greek word is hippos :-D what are you gonna be riding?
Maybe it is a metaphor for Harley-Davidson Hogs.
Vic C.
Member
1 : a figure of speech in which a word or phrase literally denoting one kind of object or idea is used in place of another to suggest a likeness or analogy between them (as in drowning in money); broadly : figurative language
2 : an object, activity, or idea treated as a metaphor
http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/Metaphor
I can do that too! :-D
Coming to this conclusion is not a matter of doctrine, it's a matter of interpretation. ;-)
2 : an object, activity, or idea treated as a metaphor
http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/Metaphor
I can do that too! :-D
Coming to this conclusion is not a matter of doctrine, it's a matter of interpretation. ;-)
Gabbylittleangel
Member
Vic,
Are you gonna be riding a big white Harley too?
Are you gonna be riding a big white Harley too?
H
hsmith98
Guest
I loved my dog, but I do not believe I will see her in heaven. I think God sometimes brings speical animals into our lives. For companionship, for helpers, or sometimes for food (those whould not be ones we keep as pets, I do not plan on keeping eating a pet dog, ect.) The do deserved to be respected as one of Gods creations.
.
Think about this...
If things God created weren't in heaven firsthand
then how can they even be on earth any way...
that is, unless Satan created it,
and we all know that Satan cannot create anything,
but only manipulates that which was already created by God?
Jesus taught us to pray this way.....
Matthew 6:9-13
9After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
10Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
11Give us this day our daily bread.
12And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
13And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
John 6:33
For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
ALL of God's creation is from out of heaven, so why wouldn't it be IN heaven if it is from heaven?
God is a giving God... why would he stop giving to us or any of HIS creation in heaven? We recieve all that is of and from God, ALL things.
God creates all things for HIS pleasure, for us to give Him the glory of it.
So why would God stop creating from out of heavenly places and limit us from seeing, and experiencing, and giving praise to it all in heaven also? If we see it in heaven, we experience it also in heaven. If it originates in heaven, we see it and experience it, and that IS a blessing from God. The spirit God gives to us is of God, and is not without experience.... how else can we give praise if we don't experience the things we are giving praise too, past present and future.... Heaven is not without the future... so then, the future must be experienced to give praise to ALL of HIS creation in and of that time also. Yes, even the animals that are of His creations.
Heaven is not without LIFE. Only that which is dead is without life. Dead things don't give praise. And heaven is not full of the dead, but full of the living! And to live one must experience life! To live life is to experience the things of life! And only the living gives praise to the things of God. ALL that is IN heaven give praise to ALL of God's creation, including the pets HE created for our pleasure. If it was originated in heaven, doesn't mean it won't be in heaven. Heaven is without end. It is the home center of God's creation and we will be witness to it all! In heaven, we will not be limited but will be full of HIS blessings. If we can picture things in heaven, then we will be in the experience of that which is being seen and created by God for His Glory. And that is worthy of giving all praise to God. His glory IS not without a vision of the thing we give praise to. If we see it in heaven, we are living it in heaven. LIFE is not without experience of the creation. You cannot giver praise to life if you don't experience it!
Why do you limit God and all the blessings he gives to us? If it was first in heaven, it will always be from heaven and so the birth of a thing from God is from heaven for our pleasure, for His Glory. If it came from out of heaven, it will always be coming from out of heaven. God is not one to take away his blessing. We lose the blessing only when we fall away from it. So then.... can we fall from heaven and miss out on the things from heaven and miss out on the blessing from heaven, after we have arrived in heaven? 8-) OSAS..... Ask satan!
: Me thinks Satan lost out on the unlimited blessings from heaven. So then how can he give praise for what is being created forever and always by God from heaven? He can't... because he places himself in hell.... a place without Godly pleasure of pets! but full of serpents!
The holy spirit is not going to limit God's creation in heaven, because Satan is NOT in heaven! God IS, and all of God's creation, past, present and future. God's Holy presence... Omnipotent, Omnipresent, Omniscient... Alpha and Omega! Forever and Always! Creation doesn't stop in heaven! It begins in heaven and is manifest from out of heaven! Including animals! We give praise to that which we experience. In heaven there IS LIFE and oh my cup runneth over with more blessings that I could ever imagine on earth.... It's all in heaven, the place Jesus is preparing for all thos who are His and of His Holy Father's creation! So yes, animals are In heaven... because that's where they originated! And heaven is without limit of God's creation, and without end! Praise God!
Now then... tell that limiting Satan to get behind you so you can move onward into the kingdom of God which is FULL of Blessings far beyond your imagination! So many blessings that your cup cannot contain all of it! but the blessings spill over the rim of it!
So really no need to place limits on the kingdom of God, God doesn't. The kingdom of God is beyond your imagination, so full of His creation and blessings..... so why do you think there will not be in heaven what originated in heaven ? Heaven is without limit to God's creations.
.
Think about this...
If things God created weren't in heaven firsthand
then how can they even be on earth any way...
that is, unless Satan created it,
and we all know that Satan cannot create anything,
but only manipulates that which was already created by God?
Jesus taught us to pray this way.....
Matthew 6:9-13
9After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
10Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
11Give us this day our daily bread.
12And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
13And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
John 6:33
For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
ALL of God's creation is from out of heaven, so why wouldn't it be IN heaven if it is from heaven?
God is a giving God... why would he stop giving to us or any of HIS creation in heaven? We recieve all that is of and from God, ALL things.
God creates all things for HIS pleasure, for us to give Him the glory of it.
So why would God stop creating from out of heavenly places and limit us from seeing, and experiencing, and giving praise to it all in heaven also? If we see it in heaven, we experience it also in heaven. If it originates in heaven, we see it and experience it, and that IS a blessing from God. The spirit God gives to us is of God, and is not without experience.... how else can we give praise if we don't experience the things we are giving praise too, past present and future.... Heaven is not without the future... so then, the future must be experienced to give praise to ALL of HIS creation in and of that time also. Yes, even the animals that are of His creations.
Heaven is not without LIFE. Only that which is dead is without life. Dead things don't give praise. And heaven is not full of the dead, but full of the living! And to live one must experience life! To live life is to experience the things of life! And only the living gives praise to the things of God. ALL that is IN heaven give praise to ALL of God's creation, including the pets HE created for our pleasure. If it was originated in heaven, doesn't mean it won't be in heaven. Heaven is without end. It is the home center of God's creation and we will be witness to it all! In heaven, we will not be limited but will be full of HIS blessings. If we can picture things in heaven, then we will be in the experience of that which is being seen and created by God for His Glory. And that is worthy of giving all praise to God. His glory IS not without a vision of the thing we give praise to. If we see it in heaven, we are living it in heaven. LIFE is not without experience of the creation. You cannot giver praise to life if you don't experience it!
Why do you limit God and all the blessings he gives to us? If it was first in heaven, it will always be from heaven and so the birth of a thing from God is from heaven for our pleasure, for His Glory. If it came from out of heaven, it will always be coming from out of heaven. God is not one to take away his blessing. We lose the blessing only when we fall away from it. So then.... can we fall from heaven and miss out on the things from heaven and miss out on the blessing from heaven, after we have arrived in heaven? 8-) OSAS..... Ask satan!
: Me thinks Satan lost out on the unlimited blessings from heaven. So then how can he give praise for what is being created forever and always by God from heaven? He can't... because he places himself in hell.... a place without Godly pleasure of pets! but full of serpents! The holy spirit is not going to limit God's creation in heaven, because Satan is NOT in heaven! God IS, and all of God's creation, past, present and future. God's Holy presence... Omnipotent, Omnipresent, Omniscient... Alpha and Omega! Forever and Always! Creation doesn't stop in heaven! It begins in heaven and is manifest from out of heaven! Including animals! We give praise to that which we experience. In heaven there IS LIFE and oh my cup runneth over with more blessings that I could ever imagine on earth.... It's all in heaven, the place Jesus is preparing for all thos who are His and of His Holy Father's creation! So yes, animals are In heaven... because that's where they originated! And heaven is without limit of God's creation, and without end! Praise God!
Now then... tell that limiting Satan to get behind you so you can move onward into the kingdom of God which is FULL of Blessings far beyond your imagination! So many blessings that your cup cannot contain all of it! but the blessings spill over the rim of it!
So really no need to place limits on the kingdom of God, God doesn't. The kingdom of God is beyond your imagination, so full of His creation and blessings..... so why do you think there will not be in heaven what originated in heaven ? Heaven is without limit to God's creations.
.
Vic C.
Member
Hi Relic,
Could you explain to us how this prayer supports the notion that animals were once in Heaven?
I don't quite understand this logic; Man was never in Heaven, but he was created, by God, right here, on Earth.
John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Nikki
Member
Lewis W said:
Nobody knows that. You can't say yes OR no because NOBODY KNOWS.
I find comfort in believing that animals will be in heaven. I can only hope. I know that if they're not though that I won't be sad since there is no sadness in heaven. While on earth though, I choose to believe that I will once again see my beloved pets.
.
Vic, no "carnal" man, sees God because they are of the carnal, not in the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is what transforms us, Right? And so, when we are IN Christ, IN heaven, we are one with the Father through Christ Jesus.... would you agree, yes?
What is conception? In heaven we are in the place which gives way to conception. Woman who have given birth understand this very well. Does not the woman praise God for the seed? Does not the woman praise God for the faith which preceded the implant of this seed? Hebrews 11:1 Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. For by it we obtain a good report. Do you think this scripture is not valid in heaven? Why not give praise to God for the animals that are first come from out of the spirit of God. We see it in heaven also. And we then are experiencing that which is bound in heaven. Matthew 18:18 gives us proof enough that whatever we bound on earth will be bound in heaven. I believe we live life in heaven. LIFE is what heaven is all about. There are no dead in heaven. We know of it's existence, we give praise to all that was, is and will be. Heaven is not going to be a physical as we know it on earth, we know that, but heaven is also not going to be a place in which we do not see the things that are, the things that were, or the things that will be. When we are IN Christ are we not one with Him, as He is one with the Father? So then, "on earth , as it is in heaven."
God knew you before you were born into this earthly body. This is a form that comes before the conception OF birth. That which was is, and that which will be, is. When we are in heaven we are aware and give praise to all that is, was and will be. And so, God makes all things from out of heaven. We, when we leave our earthly bodies, it doesn't mean we will lose sight of what will be, what is, or what is to come. In heaven we are in the presence of that which is, was and will be. Christ Jesus proves that much to us by saying that no man comes to the Father but by Him. We become one with Him through Christ Jesus. Why do you think we will not see God in Heaven. Man, the material body, does not see God, But Christ Jesus, in us, that is, us being IN Christ Jesus are one with God. "on earth, as it is in heaven" is not that difficult to understand. The material is made manifest from out of heaven. Heaven is the place in which all things of God are first created to give over to conception, to give over to birth. In heaven, we Give praise to all that is of God. Animals are of God. In heaven we will not have our eyes taken away from us. Our eyes are gateways to experience of what is. If we see it, we give praise to it.
Do not limit the presence of God through the grace of Christ Jesus IN you.
Animals are that which was, is and will be. We give praise in heaven to all that is, was and will be. If we see it in heaven, so shall it be on earth. And when we are in heaven we give praise to all that is was and will be on earth and in heaven.
Matthew 18:18
Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Matthew 16:19
And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
.
Vic, no "carnal" man, sees God because they are of the carnal, not in the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is what transforms us, Right? And so, when we are IN Christ, IN heaven, we are one with the Father through Christ Jesus.... would you agree, yes?
What is conception? In heaven we are in the place which gives way to conception. Woman who have given birth understand this very well. Does not the woman praise God for the seed? Does not the woman praise God for the faith which preceded the implant of this seed? Hebrews 11:1 Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. For by it we obtain a good report. Do you think this scripture is not valid in heaven? Why not give praise to God for the animals that are first come from out of the spirit of God. We see it in heaven also. And we then are experiencing that which is bound in heaven. Matthew 18:18 gives us proof enough that whatever we bound on earth will be bound in heaven. I believe we live life in heaven. LIFE is what heaven is all about. There are no dead in heaven. We know of it's existence, we give praise to all that was, is and will be. Heaven is not going to be a physical as we know it on earth, we know that, but heaven is also not going to be a place in which we do not see the things that are, the things that were, or the things that will be. When we are IN Christ are we not one with Him, as He is one with the Father? So then, "on earth , as it is in heaven."
God knew you before you were born into this earthly body. This is a form that comes before the conception OF birth. That which was is, and that which will be, is. When we are in heaven we are aware and give praise to all that is, was and will be. And so, God makes all things from out of heaven. We, when we leave our earthly bodies, it doesn't mean we will lose sight of what will be, what is, or what is to come. In heaven we are in the presence of that which is, was and will be. Christ Jesus proves that much to us by saying that no man comes to the Father but by Him. We become one with Him through Christ Jesus. Why do you think we will not see God in Heaven. Man, the material body, does not see God, But Christ Jesus, in us, that is, us being IN Christ Jesus are one with God. "on earth, as it is in heaven" is not that difficult to understand. The material is made manifest from out of heaven. Heaven is the place in which all things of God are first created to give over to conception, to give over to birth. In heaven, we Give praise to all that is of God. Animals are of God. In heaven we will not have our eyes taken away from us. Our eyes are gateways to experience of what is. If we see it, we give praise to it.
Do not limit the presence of God through the grace of Christ Jesus IN you.
Animals are that which was, is and will be. We give praise in heaven to all that is, was and will be. If we see it in heaven, so shall it be on earth. And when we are in heaven we give praise to all that is was and will be on earth and in heaven.
Matthew 18:18
Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Matthew 16:19
And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
.
Vic C.
Member
All I asked is how you determined by the Lord's Prayer that there were animals in Heaven at one time. I'm not limiting God; I am trying not to let my imagination distort what I believe to be HIS Will for Man.
"Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven" has nothing to do with animals in Heaven. The entire Lord's Prayer is an outline of Jesus showing us how to pray. In this portion of the prayer, we are instructed to give all honor and glory to God and to show that we desire the Will of the Father to be accomplished on Earth, just as it is in Heaven.
Maybe it's the language of the JK that is throwing you off. Here it is in the LITV:
9 ¶ So, then, you should pray this way: Our Father who is in Heaven, Hallowed be Your name.
10 Your kingdom come; Your will be done, as it is in Heaven, also on the earth.
11 Give us today our daily bread,
12 and forgive us our debts as we also forgive our debtors.
13 And do not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from the evil, for Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory to the ages. Amen.
You mentioned conception... Neither Adam nor Eve were conceived. Adam was created from the dust of the Earth; Eve, created from the rib of Adam. Neither one decended from Heaven. I'm willing to bet they didn't even have belly buttons.
: Come to think of it, all the animals were created. :-D
destiny
Member
I think the only animals mentioned in the bible as being in heaven are horses. I feel pretty confident there will be a glorified version of the animals we see here on earth, and some we have yet to comprehend.
I don't think the bible is clear on an earthly animal resurrection though.
I don't think the bible is clear on an earthly animal resurrection though.
Vic said:
I know Adam and Eve were created from the dust of the earth. You are thinking of the material process. The spiritual process by which Adam and Eve were created took place well before the material process. What came (descended) from heaven (the spiritual place) arrives as a material manifestation, of the spiritual.
The thought (spirit) of something always precedes the material result.
And same goes for the forming of the animals, they were first formed in the spirit before the material form of it was manifest. God's ideas are of the spirit, made manifest. And if heaven is the origin of it all, we will be there to see it and give praise to ALL of His creations. First notion of a thing originates in the heavenly place. God's spirit resides in heaven, God's spirit brings ALL things into being.... It's the construction of all the material that is the result of the God spirit which is the true origin of ALL things made manifest.
How else does any creative process take place? It first orginiates in the mind of God. Then the construction takes place.
If I want to make some cupcakes.... I don't get the idea after I gathered all the ingredients, what I do is get the idea first, then the construction of the cupcakes commences. And so.... are the animals formed in the "idea" of God's psirit. The spirit is that which brings the idea about, and following is the construction of that which has been thought of. The mind of God.... is what brings all of these things into being. Gee, I hope you understand what I'm trying to relay to you. Belly buttons are necessary. Debates suck. :P
.
.
F
fResH
Guest
I believe life will once again be like how it was when God had first created the earth.
When God created animals, he saw that they were good.
God's Idea is just too precious to be banished forever.
When God created animals, he saw that they were good.
God's Idea is just too precious to be banished forever.
Gabbylittleangel
Member
fResH said:
Remember when you were little, and a game that you were playing was not going well? Did you ever ask "Can we start over?"
When I was little and was evaluating the terrible place where I lived, I thought about that. I asked God "Can we start over?" It was then that He began to reveal to me his plan of redemption and salvation. The new heavens and new earth.
I believe that you are right. And again, I encourage you to ask the Lord to keep your pet for you, and ask that He give you the assurance that it is so.
Ask Him what lessons that He has for you to learn through this. He gave me assurance over a kitten that was killed over 45 years ago, when I was about 4. He has also given me a promise over a daughter that was lost at birth. God is good. I sometimes wonder if my daughter and my kitten are both waiting together in the place that Jesus is preparing for me.