Bible Study do christians have beard? " nor mar the edges of the beard "

[jocor]

As a non-Christian you may still consider yourself under these laws, However as Christians we are not. But don't feel like we are privileged. We actually were given a much harder law to follow, and that is to love our neighbors as Christ loves us. That's a lot harder to do than it is to follow the Jewish religion's laws.

As a disciple of Messiah Yeshua, I do both. I endeavor to obey Torah as well as any additional laws of the NT.

As for the "harder law" you follow ("to love our neighbors as Christ loves us"), can you please tell me where that is found? I see where Messiah repeated the Torah command to "love thy neighbor as thyself" (Lev 19:18) in Matthew 19:19, and I see where Paul and James repeated that same "Jewish religion's law" for us today (Romans 13:9; Galatians 5:14; James 2:8), but I can't find the command as you stated it.

 

[Obadiah]

As a disciple of Messiah Yeshua, I do both. I endeavor to obey Torah as well as any additional laws of the NT.

As for the "harder law" you follow ("to love our neighbors as Christ loves us"), can you please tell me where that is found? I see where Messiah repeated the Torah command to "love thy neighbor as thyself" (Lev 19:18) in Matthew 19:19, and I see where Paul and James repeated that same "Jewish religion's law" for us today (Romans 13:9; Galatians 5:14; James 2:8), but I can't find the command as you stated it.

Very well, that was my mistake. That's what I get for paraphrasing without looking it up first. Your quoting of the verse is correct. However my point is valid. It is still a far harder commandment to literally love your neighbor as much as you love yourself than it is to simply refrain from shaving your beard!

This is a Christian site, and we follow the basic tenets of our Christian faith here, which include the instructions to us in the New Testament (Such as love your neighbor as yourself) but do not include adherence to Jewish law such as a prohibition of shaving beards. If a Christian wants to follow those things voluntarily as their private honor to God, that's fine. But they have no right to force that onto other Christians or to think or act like they are spiritually superior for doing these things. The question in the OP was about Christians, not Jews.

 

[jocor]

Very well, that was my mistake. That's what I get for paraphrasing without looking it up first. Your quoting of the verse is correct. However my point is valid. It is still a far harder commandment to literally love your neighbor as much as you love yourself than it is to simply refrain from shaving your beard!

I agree that "love thy neighbor" is harder. That does not make the easier commandment null and void.

This is a Christian site, and we follow the basic tenets of our Christian faith here, which include the instructions to us in the New Testament (Such as love your neighbor as yourself) but do not include adherence to Jewish law such as a prohibition of shaving beards.

It is not a "Jewish" law any more than "love thy neighbor" is a Jewish law. It is a law of Almighty Yahweh, our Creator. He created men to have beards and not destroy them. The "basic tenets" of the Christian faith are not infallible as is evident by the plethora of denominations. Of course you are free to disagree and free to live your life however you see fit. I am simply informing the readers that the Christian understanding of beards is wrong. Is it against forum rules to do that?

If a Christian wants to follow those things voluntarily as their private honor to God, that's fine. But they have no right to force that onto other Christians or to think or act like they are spiritually superior for doing these things. The question in the OP was about Christians, not Jews.

I am not "forcing" anyone to grow a beard, nor do I think I am spiritually superior because I have one. I am addressing the OP as to why Christians believe it is OK to not have a beard.

 

[Stan1953]

can you say me it i think i saw a jewish man wearing beard he says you shall have a beard......
do you think christians have beard ?

He's following the written Levitical/Mosaic Laws which are obsolete for Christians.
Heb 8:13 (NIV)

 

[Sinthesis]

It's ok to not have a beard, unless you're a member of Islamic State.

 

[Obadiah]

It's ok to not have a beard, unless you're a member of Islamic State.

Uh, I think Hasidic Jews, who's religion requires beards, would be quite offended by what you said here...

 

[jocor]

He's following the written Levitical/Mosaic Laws which are obsolete for Christians.
Heb 8:13 (NIV)

The Old Covenant is obsolete for believers. The law is not. According to Jer 31:33, the Torah would be written on the hearts and minds of New Covenant believers.

 

[selihah]

Christians usually do not have beards because they erroneously believe the command to not destroy the beard was abolished. The Almighty created men to have beards (with some exceptions). He later commanded His people to not destroy their beard (Lev 19:27). Yeshua (Jesus) had a beard. His death did not abolish beards.

The verse you quoted Lev 19:27 is only the first part of a comandment which says do not shave or do cut the flesh in remembrence or to honor the dead. Its written again in chapter 21. In layman terms dont shave and or cut your flesh when you go to a funeral. If your like me and dont have a beard then dont worry about.

Its the most likely reason why Davids servants had their beards plucked off by a pagan king in Samuel II 10. Pagans cut their beards for such occasions whereas Torah did not permit such things.

However there is tradition found in talmud and other rabbinic sources which there interpretation make it required but absolutely nothing in Torah.

 

[jocor]

The verse you quoted Lev 19:27 is only the first part of a comandment which says do not shave or do cut the flesh in remembrence or to honor the dead. Its written again in chapter 21. In layman terms dont shave and or cut your flesh when you go to a funeral. If your like me and dont have a beard then dont worry about.

As I see it, verse 27, like verse 26, is not part of the prohibition in verse 28.

Lev 19:26 Ye shall not eat any thing with the blood: neither shall ye use enchantment, nor observe times.
Lev 19:27 Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard.
Lev 19:28 Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am YHWH.
​

You seem to be suggesting that it is not OK to defile yourself by shaving for a funeral, but it is OK to defile yourself at all other times by shaving for any other reason. It seems to me that of all the reasons to shave, including vanity, shaving for a funeral would be the most valid reason. I believe YHWH singled out not shaving for the dead because that was the most likely reason someone would shave. Yet, even that good reason is forbidden. In other words, YHWH's intent is, "You may not shave your beards for any reason, not even for the dead."

Its the most likely reason why Davids servants had their beards plucked off by a pagan king in Samuel II 10. Pagans cut their beards for such occasions whereas Torah did not permit such things.

I disagree. If the pagans wanted the Israelites beards off for their dead, they would have shaved their entire beard, not just one half of it. The reason only one half was shaved and why their garments were cut off up to their buttocks was to shame them. It was a shame for an Israelite to make baldness upon his head or face.

 

[selihah]

Sooo, what of the females who grow facial hair are they to remain as the bearded lady? What of those males who cannot for the life of them grow facial hair at all? How does the commandment as you interpret it apply to them?

Its silly to think this a commandment just about prohibiting a clean shaven face especially since not everyone can grow facial hair. So I stand by what I said: it is my understanding this is just a commandment not to shave or cut our flesh in honor of the dead as the pagans do. We are to set ourselves apart from them, this is one way it is done.

If you think its important not to shave then dont shave. Me? Im clean shaven, the main reason being is because my wife likes me like that. The main reason she likes me like that is because I cant grow a beard. Which I guess by your interpretation means Im defiled and going straight to sheol

Peace.

 

[Corn Pop]

.

Chopper. What happened to your hat?.

 

[Sinthesis]

Uh, I think Hasidic Jews, who's religion requires beards, would be quite offended by what you said here...

Wouldn't Hasidic Jews also be offended if I lumped them in with Islamic State?

 

[jocor]

Sooo, what of the females who grow facial hair are they to remain as the bearded lady? What of those males who cannot for the life of them grow facial hair at all? How does the commandment as you interpret it apply to them?

I don't believe the commandment applies to women or men that can't grow beards.

If you think its important not to shave then dont shave. Me? Im clean shaven, the main reason being is because my wife likes me like that. The main reason she likes me like that is because I cant grow a beard. Which I guess by your interpretation means Im defiled and going straight to sheol

Peace.

Did I mention something about people going to sheol for shaving off their beards or not being able to grow one? You obviously misinterpreted me and added your own unrighteous interpretation to make my view seem unjust. Sad indeed.

 

[selihah]

let me back up a minute here. Since it is addressed to the whole congregation of Israel and not just those who can grow facial hair. What is the basis for your proclaimation that it doesnt apply to men who cannot grow beards?

 

[jocor]

let me back up a minute here. Since it is addressed to the whole congregation of Israel and not just those who can grow facial hair. What is the basis for your proclaimation that it doesnt apply to men who cannot grow beards?

Lev 19:27 Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard.
​

The command is for those that have beards. You cannot mar your beard if you don't have one. Nor can you round the corners of your head if you are bald.

 

[selihah]

The thing is I do shave, if I dont, I start looking pretty ratty. I also cut my hair from time to time too, otherwise I start looking like Willy Nelson (no offense to Willy Nelson fans), I do this for stylistic reasons. Even pagans do that.

What I will not do though is behave like a pagan and shave my facial hair, get a bowl cut or cut my flesh to mourn the dead or write the names of the dead on my skin. To think that 'all of the congregation of the people of Israel' just means men with beards is absurd. Equally absurd is the idea that just the men who can grow beards are not allowed to shave or cut their hair.

Obviusly we see things differently. You seem to follow rabbinic tradition and interpretation. Myself more so that of a Karaite. Anyway Im done with this thread, have fun.

Peace

 

[Kenny_ms]

TheSaintman, is your answer clear as mud yet?

If so, I'm guilty too because I just popped in the say there are different opinions on this an you may want to do a search of the board/google on it. Both sides, if I recall right, had some points worth hearing

I have had a beard for many years. Not as glorious as Bill Taylor's though. There were cultist practices during the early Hebrew times and the cult followers would mar their beards with various designs. The Hebrew men were not to make such designs but to let them grow naturally. If I'm at fault, it's keeping mine short.

I used to wear a long one but that was due to my love of the world (fleas, ticks, a nest for birds .... what not) not God, and in my hippy days. I can't stand them now or I would probably wear one just to be safe. For a Christian, it may not be necessary but there is no rule against it either.

On the cutting of our beards as the heathen do, I agree with you. Also, If one lived during the 60's and had a Cristian beard, to go with foot long sideburns and fu man chu's the same length, we would also have been cutting our beards as the heathen (most hippies) did. Boy were we ever cool back then, I mean we looked like a bunch of freaks, we must have been cool....right? (not you, Chop, me, I doubt you did that

 

[Stan1953]

The Old Covenant is obsolete for believers. The law is not. According to Jer 31:33, the Torah would be written on the hearts and minds of New Covenant believers.

No, God said He would write His laws on our hearts, NOT the Torah, which contains His laws.

 

[jocor]

No, God said He would write His laws on our hearts, NOT the Torah, which contains His laws.

Jer 31:33 ButH3588 thisH2063 shall be the covenantH1285 thatH834 I will makeH3772 withH854 the houseH1004 of Israel;H3478 AfterH310 thoseH1992 days,H3117 saithH5002 the LORD,H3068 I will putH5414 (H853) my lawH8451 in their inward parts,H7130 and writeH3789 it inH5921 their hearts;H3820 and will beH1961 their God,H430 and theyH1992 shall beH1961 my people.H5971

H8451
תּרה תּורה
tôrâh tôrâh
to-raw', to-raw'
From H3384; a precept or statute, especially the Decalogue or Pentateuch: - law.

 

[Stan1953]

Jer 31:33 ButH3588 thisH2063 shall be the covenantH1285 thatH834 I will makeH3772 withH854 the houseH1004 of Israel;H3478 AfterH310 thoseH1992 days,H3117 saithH5002 the LORD,H3068 I will putH5414 (H853) my lawH8451 in their inward parts,H7130 and writeH3789 it inH5921 their hearts;H3820 and will beH1961 their God,H430 and theyH1992 shall beH1961 my people.H5971

H8451
תּרה תּורה
tôrâh tôrâh
to-raw', to-raw'
From H3384; a precept or statute, especially the Decalogue or Pentateuch: - law.

I'm assuming this is your answer, so I will say I agree with this, but your post was famed in a different manner. In any even, if this is what you meant by God's law, then I agree.