Do the seven churches in Rev. 2-3 symbolize seven "church eras" in church history?

[Carry_Your_Name]

This is a popular doctrine taught by William Branham, that Jesus's letters to the seven churches in ancient Asia Minor and modern day Turkey are a timeline of the entire church age from His ascension to his return, the seven churches in Rev. 2-3 symbolize seven "church eras" in church history; specifically, these seven churches are characterized as the loveless (also legalistic) church; persecuted church; compromised church; corrupt church; dead church; faithful church; lukewarm church. William Branham matches them to the apostalic early church; persecuted Roman church; Roman state church; the Catholic church; the protestant church; the missionary church; the modern day rich apostate church, respectively.

I think there're some truth in that, first of all there's most definitely a church age, known as the "times of the Gentiles", in which Jews are dominated by the Gentiles, the gospel is also preached by the Gentiles and to the Gentiles. Both Jesus and Paul and perhaps some other prophets talked about it, so "church age" is legit, and we're near the end of it.

Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come. (Matt. 12:32)
See! Your house is left to you desolate; for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’ ” (Matt. 23:38-39)
And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. (Lk. 21:24)
For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. (Rom. 11:25)

This is also hinted in the context of the seven letters - "Write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after this." (Rev. 1:19) In the context of the book of Revelation, "the things which are", also "what you see" (Rev. 1:11) is the times of the gentiles and the end of it, "the things which will take place after this" is the millennial kingdom and the New Jerusalem.

But is the church age divided into seven eras symbolized by the seven churches, and there's one overarching, dominant zeitgeist for each era? Not really. These seven churches are seven types of churches, and they co-exist all the time, throughout the entire church age. The lukewarm church might be the dominant kind of church in America, but not all over the world, you've got other kinds of churches in other countries. It might be a helpful teaching tool to divide the church age into these seven eras for the purpose of learning church history, just like using the doctrine of "seven deadly sins" as a teaching tool to understand what sin is, but that doesn't mean there's different biblical message applicable for different eras, and the Holy Spirit changes over time.

 

[RandyK]

This is a popular doctrine taught by William Branham, that Jesus's letters to the seven churches in ancient Asia Minor and modern day Turkey are a timeline of the entire church age from His ascension to his return, the seven churches in Rev. 2-3 symbolize seven "church eras" in church history; specifically, these seven churches are characterized as the loveless (also legalistic) church; persecuted church; compromised church; corrupt church; dead church; faithful church; lukewarm church. William Branham matches them to the apostalic early church; persecuted Roman church; Roman state church; the Catholic church; the protestant church; the missionary church; the modern day rich apostate church, respectively.

I think there're some truth in that, first of all there's most definitely a church age, known as the "times of the Gentiles", in which Jews are dominated by the Gentiles, the gospel is also preached by the Gentiles and to the Gentiles. Both Jesus and Paul and perhaps some other prophets talked about it, so "church age" is legit, and we're near the end of it.

Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come. (Matt. 12:32)
See! Your house is left to you desolate; for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’ ” (Matt. 23:38-39)
And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. (Lk. 21:24)
For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. (Rom. 11:25)

This is also hinted in the context of the seven letters - "Write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after this." (Rev. 1:19) In the context of the book of Revelation, "the things which are", also "what you see" (Rev. 1:11) is the times of the gentiles and the end of it, "the things which will take place after this" is the millennial kingdom and the New Jerusalem.

But is the church age divided into seven eras symbolized by the seven churches, and there's one overarching, dominant zeitgeist for each era? Not really. These seven churches are seven types of churches, and they co-exist all the time, throughout the entire church age. The lukewarm church might be the dominant kind of church in America, but not all over the world, you've got other kinds of churches in other countries. It might be a helpful teaching tool to divide the church age into these seven eras for the purpose of learning church history, just like using the doctrine of "seven deadly sins" as a teaching tool to understand what sin is, but that doesn't mean there's different biblical message applicable for different eras, and the Holy Spirit changes over time.

If we are to properly interpret the "7 churches" in Revelation we will recognize them as 7 historical churches in various cities in Asia Minor in the time of John. But the Holy Spirit may very well have a progression in mind that follows the advance of the Gospel in the world over time, indicating these 7 kinds of churches can represent "eras."

As you say, these 7 kinds of churches exist somewhere in the world all the time. So we are just looking at a way of sizing up the history of the Church with its various needs over time.

We can all see how in the Early Church, at its infancy, there was a danger of surrendering to perecution by the pagan Romans, and how as the Church advanced into the State there came to be a need to separate from heresy, etc. I don't see much wrong with looking at "eras" as long as we remember that the literal interpretation involves 7 historical churches in John's time.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

If we are to properly interpret the "7 churches" in Revelation we will recognize them as 7 historical churches in various cities in Asia Minor in the time of John. But the Holy Spirit may very well have a progression in mind that follows the advance of the Gospel in the world over time, indicating these 7 kinds of churches can represent "eras."

As you say, these 7 kinds of churches exist somewhere in the world all the time. So we are just looking at a way of sizing up the history of the Church with its various needs over time.

We can all see how in the Early Church, at its infancy, there was a danger of surrendering to perecution by the pagan Romans, and how as the Church advanced into the State there came to be a need to separate from heresy, etc. I don't see much wrong with looking at "eras" as long as we remember that the literal interpretation involves 7 historical churches in John's time.

Well I used to believe that as well, until I heard this argument about various other churches around the world, and then realized that churches in America doesn't represent the whole world, just because most American churches are lukewarm doesn't mean all other churches - called out assemblies - are lukewarm as well. Those seven angels are seven spirits of the Lamb that were sent over the whole earth.

 

[JLB]

This is a popular doctrine taught by William Branham, that Jesus's letters to the seven churches in ancient Asia Minor and modern day Turkey are a timeline of the entire church age from His ascension to his return, the seven churches in Rev. 2-3 symbolize seven "church eras" in church history; specifically, these seven churches are characterized as the loveless (also legalistic) church; persecuted church; compromised church; corrupt church; dead church; faithful church; lukewarm church. William Branham matches them to the apostalic early church; persecuted Roman church; Roman state church; the Catholic church; the protestant church; the missionary church; the modern day rich apostate church, respectively.

I think there're some truth in that, first of all there's most definitely a church age, known as the "times of the Gentiles", in which Jews are dominated by the Gentiles, the gospel is also preached by the Gentiles and to the Gentiles. Both Jesus and Paul and perhaps some other prophets talked about it, so "church age" is legit, and we're near the end of it.

Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come. (Matt. 12:32)
See! Your house is left to you desolate; for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’ ” (Matt. 23:38-39)
And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. (Lk. 21:24)
For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. (Rom. 11:25)

This is also hinted in the context of the seven letters - "Write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after this." (Rev. 1:19) In the context of the book of Revelation, "the things which are", also "what you see" (Rev. 1:11) is the times of the gentiles and the end of it, "the things which will take place after this" is the millennial kingdom and the New Jerusalem.

But is the church age divided into seven eras symbolized by the seven churches, and there's one overarching, dominant zeitgeist for each era? Not really. These seven churches are seven types of churches, and they co-exist all the time, throughout the entire church age. The lukewarm church might be the dominant kind of church in America, but not all over the world, you've got other kinds of churches in other countries. It might be a helpful teaching tool to divide the church age into these seven eras for the purpose of learning church history, just like using the doctrine of "seven deadly sins" as a teaching tool to understand what sin is, but that doesn't mean there's different biblical message applicable for different eras, and the Holy Spirit changes over time.

The letters were written to actual churches that John oversaw as an apostle.

We can learn and apply the truths to our lives today.

 

[follower]

oops.
"Letter to the assembly....." not to goyim group.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Well I used to believe that as well, until I heard this argument about various other churches around the world, and then realized that churches in America doesn't represent the whole world, just because most American churches are lukewarm doesn't mean all other churches - called out assemblies - are lukewarm as well. Those seven angels are seven spirits of the Lamb that were sent over the whole earth.

Well, it's an interesting observation, but I think on the whole the 21st century church is generally richer than the churches of any other era. I mean, if they have running water and hot water baths and air conditioning they are way ahead of just 150 years ago, let alone the 1st century. So I'm inclined to believe the parallels hold true.

Btw, I'm not 100% sure if Branham's divisions were accurate, but I do still tend to think they were indicative of seven church ages, simply because the seven letters are included in a book that discussed the Biblical end-times, so they would seem to be out of place and a little superfluous if they did not apply in some way as well.

Jm2c. Interesting thread topic.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Well, it's an interesting observation, but I think on the whole the 21st century church is generally richer than the churches of any other era. I mean, if they have running water and hot water baths and air conditioning they are way ahead of just 150 years ago, let alone the 1st century. So I'm inclined to believe the parallels hold true.

Btw, I'm not 100% sure if Branham's divisions were accurate, but I do still tend to think they were indicative of seven church ages, simply because the seven letters are included in a book that discussed the Biblical end-times, so they would seem to be out of place and a little superfluous if they did not apply in some way as well.

Jm2c. Interesting thread topic.

It's not just about great material wealth and better living condition, there's also the element of apostasy, which Paul warned about - having a form of godliness, but denying the power of God; lovers of self and apathy toward others; departure from faith - not just faith in God, but pretty much faith in anything larger than themselves; deceiving spirits and false doctrines - hello, New Age. The Laodicean church is infamously characterized as lukewarm, neither hot or cold. A glass of lukewarm water is at the exact same room temperature, being indistinguishable from the external environment, that's the Laodicean church, a worldly church with a Jesus facade. There has been a lot of reports about how a megachurch service is like a rock concert and a motivational speech rally, you can hardly feel any spiritual component in it. You don't have this kind of stuff in the past, you know, churches used to be hospitals, schools, shelters and community centers, now they're only community centers, even this function is in decline.

 

[Hidden In Him]

There has been a lot of reports about how a megachurch service is like a rock concert and a motivational speech rally, you can hardly feel any spiritual component in it. You don't have this kind of stuff in the past, you know, churches used to be hospitals, schools, shelters and community centers, now they're only community centers, even this function is in decline.

Very good point. Even in the mainline churches, it was at least about prayer, and service, and liturgy. Now in some of the more prominent circles it's mostly about entertainment.

 

[JLB]

Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come. (Matt. 12:32)

This age began with Adam and will culminate at the resurrection of the dead in Christ, at His coming, which is why it’s called the last day.

But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
Luke 20:35-36

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

This age began with Adam and will culminate at the resurrection of the dead in Christ, at His coming, which is why it’s called the last day.

But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
Luke 20:35-36

But who will blaspheme against the holy spirit in "that age", if it refers to the resurrection?

 

[JLB]

But who will blaspheme against the holy spirit in "that age", if it refers to the resurrection?

What scripture are you referring to?

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

What scripture are you referring to?

Matt. 12:32, the same one that you quoted.

 

[JLB]

Matt. 12:32, the same one that you quoted.

Ok.

Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come. Matthew 12:32

• whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

There will be no forgiveness in this age or in the age to come.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

There will be no forgiveness in this age or in the age to come.

I was asking you how "the age to come" is referring to the resurrection in the millennial kingdom - if you are not preterist, I suppose. It is explicitly stated in Rev. 20:5 that unbelievers don't get resurrected in the kingdom, they stay dead until the end of the one thousand years. I think it's the church age, the "times of the Gentiles".

 

[JLB]

I was asking you how "the age to come" is referring to the resurrection in the millennial kingdom - if you are not preterist, I suppose. It is explicitly stated in Rev. 20:5 that unbelievers don't get resurrected in the kingdom, they stay dead until the end of the one thousand years. I think it's the church age, the "times of the Gentiles".

First and foremost, I’m not a Preterist.

The scripture I quoted refers to the “age to come” which is called “that age” and which seems to refer to the age of the resurrection, or what some call the millennial age. The 1000 years or the way I understand it, the “rest to come” the seventh (prophetic) day from Adam.

The “Sabbath” which the weekly Sabbath points to.

But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. Luke 20:34-35

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

First and foremost, I’m not a Preterist.

The scripture I quoted refers to the “age to come” which is called “that age” and which seems to refer to the age of the resurrection, or what some call the millennial age. The 1000 years or the way I understand it, the “rest to come” the seventh (prophetic) day from Adam.

The “Sabbath” which the weekly Sabbath points to.

But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. Luke 20:34-35

Then how and why would anybody resurrected from the dead blaspheme against the Holy Spirit, the power that resurrected them from the dead in the first place, in that age?

 

[JLB]

Then how and why would anybody resurrected from the dead blaspheme against the Holy Spirit, the power that resurrected them from the dead in the first place, in that age?

Brother I never said nor did I insinuate that people in the age to come would blaspheme the Holy Spirit. Jesus is referring to be forgiven in the age to come.

• it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come. Matthew 12:32

• whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

“Assuredly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter; but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation”— because they said, “He has an unclean spirit.” Mark 3:28-30

• but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation

Anyone who in this age speaks against, blasphemes the Holy Spirit ends up in hell; is subject to eternal condemnation

Specifically, Jesus is referring to calling the Holy Spirit who is working through a person, a demon. I have witnessed people, especially those in the cessationist camp do this very thing.

By saying “eternal condemnation” Jesus is saying they will not be forgiven in this age, or in the age to come.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Brother I never said nor did I insinuate that people in the age to come would blaspheme the Holy Spirit. Jesus is referring to be forgiven in the age to come.

• it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

You can only be forgiven in this age while you're still alive, all who're forgiven and saved in this age will be resurrected, all who're not will NOT be resurrected. There can't be more forgiveness in the millennial kingdom because all who get to enter the kingdom must have already been forgiven, and there will be no more sins to forgive.

 

[JLB]

You can only be forgiven in this age while you're still alive, all who're forgiven and saved in this age will be resurrected, all who're not will NOT be resurrected. There can't be more forgiveness in the millennial kingdom because all who get to enter the kingdom must have already been forgiven, and there will be no more sins to forgive.

• whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

 

[miamited]

Hi Carry_Your_Name

My take on the opening letters written for us as a testimony in the Revelation of Jesus, is that they are actual letters from the Lord given for John to write down for us about being careful what we believe and follow in our fellowship gatherings. They were written to bring out problems within our practices of fellowship that have been with us since pretty much the beginning of the 'church'. I don't believe that they have any reference to different ages or eras of the church but are rather cautions to us throughout the church age, which began when the Holy Spirit was released at Pentecost or thereabouts, that we be careful as to what we assimilate in our teachings and practices of pure worship for God.