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Do you agree, or disagree?

Does a genuine believer who stops believing and dies in that unbelief remain saved?

  • Total voters
    20
kiwidan said:
Is there such a thing as a genuine believer that stops believing.
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I've already said I've witnessed it first hand. My once tongue speaking wife by her own very recent admission does not believe anymore. She defies every argument that it is only people who never 'really' believed that fall from a faith they never had to begin with. She got saved at the exact same time I did, had the conclusive evidence following, but 'took a break' from the faith 15 years ago because the trials of the faith were too much for her.

She always had a grudge against God, even after getting saved. Always challenging his ways. She was hardly strong enough in her faith to endure to the end. But I assure you she had sufficient faith to be born again.
 
You said she has always had a grudge against God even after getting saved, so was she genuine to start with or was it just a lazy yea why not give this religion and god a go save. I mean, only God knows the true mind of another person.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
I find it hard to believe there are Christians that seriously believe unbelievers will be saved on the Day of Wrath.
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That's because there won't be any unbelievers in glory Jethro..

Forgot this...

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
 
kiwidan said:
You said she has always had a grudge against God even after getting saved, so was she genuine to start with or was it just a lazy yea why not give this a go save. I mean, only God knows the true mind of another person.
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That doesn't sound right to me neither?
 
kiwidan said:
You said she has always had a grudge against God even after getting saved, so was she genuine to start with or was it just a lazy yea why not give this a go save. I mean, only God knows the true mind of another person.
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I would surely be of the opinion that she was never really saved to begin with, but I heard her talk in tongues. And you just have to trust me on this, she is not the kind of person to fake tongues. Besides, I heard it, and it definitely was not her doing it. I know what fake tongues sounds like. Her's were not fake. Like I say, I'm the person who knows her the best and I'm telling you she had the sign gift of salvation--speaking in tongues. It changed my whole thinking about not really being forgiven by God. I know she was. And I know the Holy Spirit came into her in a salvation experience. Yet she abandoned the faith and of her own confession says she does not believe anymore.
 
We used to have something in the 60's called a "contact high" ever hear of it? Could be that's what your wife experienced?
 
turnorburn said:
That doesn't sound right to me neither?
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I know it doesn't, because it chaffs against everything we are told by the church about born again people. But I'm telling you my born again wife has always been in a struggle with the will of God. She asked God to save her and he did. But she never got past her anger at God for the way things are.

A week ago or so I told her I won't depart the faith despite the struggle I've had because I do not want to give up the forgiveness of my sins. She said his forgiveness is no big deal because he designed us to sin in the first place. So whoop-dee-doo if he then forgives us for what he planned all along for us to fall into. She's not only an unbeliever, she has actual contempt for the gift of forgiveness. That's the really scary part. I can understand doubt and unbelief, but I can't understand a person having open contempt for the free gift of redemption (the forgiveness of sin) that they know is real and which God graciously gave them.
 
turnorburn said:
We used to have something in the 60's called a "contact high" ever hear of it? Could be that's what your wife experienced?
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Never heard of it.
Did it include receiving a gift of the Holy Spirit?
That right there takes away any and all question about whether a person has been genuinely born again.
 
One common theme I've noticed in my NDE studies is the fate of "back-sliding" Christians. Not only do they end up in Hell, they go to a particularly painful area of Hell. Their torment is much worse for having once believed, then turning their backs on the Almighty. In fact, it would have been better had they never believed in the first place.

I pondered upon this a while, then it made sense. Non-believers fail to return God's love because they simply don't believe He exists. A back-slider is basically saying, "I know you, Lord, but do not love You". It is more than non-belief; it is rejection. We all know what it feels like to undergo rejection. Imagine how God feels, the ultimate rejection.
 
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Some people are gifted, I get nothing, no tounges, no prophecy, no signs, no nothing.

My trial seems to be keeping faith with no gift. Lol. I mean, if I spoke tounges how could I never not believe. Or like the disciples who first hand seen miracles or the risen Christ, they got evidence and proof, I get nothing but blessed who has not seen yet believed. I guess that verse is hope. Lol.
 
reba said:
she is very angry with God that is scary.. .. .
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It is. I can't think of anything worse than that for shutting down faith and trust in God in a person. She has paid a stiff price for that anger. I know ultimately it's her responsibility, but I blame a lot on the church for being so horribly ignorant of the truths that she needs to hear in order to diffuse some of this anger she has.

I'm not spilling my guts here, but the profound lack of sound Biblical truth is something that bothers me A LOT. We are in a time similar to a time in Israel when there was a famine of the word and revelation of the Lord. I'm seeing it, and I'm seeing the fall out of it. My wife is a part of that fall out and it makes me angry at false teachers who arrogantly and confidently spread their false doctrines about salvation and rob people of the real truth.
 
KevinK said:
One common theme I've noticed in my NDE studies is the fate of "back-sliding" Christians. Not only do they end up in Hell, they go to a particularly painful area of Hell. Their torment is much worse for having once believed, then turning their backs on the Almighty. In fact, it would have been better had they never believed in the first place.

I pondered upon this a while, then it made sense. Non-believers fail to return God's love because they simply don't believe He exists. A back-slider is basically saying, "I know you, Lord, but do not love You". It is more than non-belief; it is rejection. We all know what if feels like to undergo rejection. Imagine how God feels, the ultimate rejection.
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You're speaking the very truth of God.
I personally can not fathom knowing God for a fact and then turning my back on him.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
Never heard of it.
Did it include receiving a gift of the Holy Spirit?
That right there takes away any and all question about whether a person has been genuinely born again.
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Going along with the crowd isn't new.. .. those contact highs were pretty powerful Jethro.. we are told to examine ourselves whether we are in the faith.. Something just doesn't sound right?
 
reba said:
off topic a bit ... kiuwidan i have watched you grow in knowledge
:topic
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True. I should change my user name to intelligentdan, but then thee shall not boast of thy gift. Lol.

Ok back to topic. If anyone wants knowledge just ask me for my opinion.
 
kiwidan said:
Some people are gifted, I get nothing, no tounges, no prophecy, no signs, no nothing.
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Lol, me too. I'm from the Full Gospel Church. It was especially difficult for me to have no apparent gift of the Spirit. :lol
What I learned out of it, kiwidan, is that the fruit of the Spirit is the manifestation of the Holy Spirit that matters. That is what will bring you peace and confidence in your relationship with God. But few churches know this, let alone teach it. Everything seems to be about being like the world and being great in your talents and abilities, not great in godly character.

kiwidan said:
I mean, if I spoke tounges how could I never not believe.
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I'm with you, bro. I wondered how my wife can have the ultimate sign of the existence of God and yet turn away. But she did. She now thinks it was just something going on in her brain from being around tongue talkers.

kiwidan said:
they got evidence and proof, I get nothing but blessed who has not seen yet believed. I guess that verse is hope. Lol.
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The genuine change in my character is what proves the existence of God to me. I mean it is literally a miracle of how different I am. The things that I could not change about me and which separated me from God are gone. I pray that you would take the same kind of comforting assurance from what God is doing in your character too.
 
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