Do you believe in predestination ?

[Hidden In Him]

Everything about Salvation is to Gods Glory. The preaching, te believing, all of it

Greetings, Brightfame.

If you could, as per my post, how is it to God's glory that according to His will He instilled in one of His angels an unfathomable hatred towards mankind? How is it to God's glory that the god of this world regularly enjoys watching Satanists murder little children and sacrifice human beings on his altars, and subjects them to the worse tortures imaginable? How can it be to God's glory that demonic spirits every day incite men, women and children to commit suicide, being so badly filled with grief that they take their own lives?

Why do you think such a theology glorifies God?

Blessings in Christ,
Hidden In Him

 

[for_his_glory]

Not only were they predestinated to Faith, but predestinated to be saved, They were saved already in the purpose of God before the world began 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,


Eph 2:8-9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Every person God created is called with God's holy calling, but each one of has to choose to answer His call that comes by His free gift of grace through faith in Him and those who answer His call will have a purpose in the kingdom of God here on earth as it is in heaven, God's will be done.

 

[for_his_glory]

Everything about Salvation is to Gods Glory. The preaching, te believing, all of it

Of course everything God has predestined is for His glory as no one is denying that. God's salvation is to the glory of His Son Christ Jesus in which was God's predestined plan of salvation before the foundation of the world.

 

[for_his_glory]

All was predestinated.

All was before the foundation of the world of how God wanted us to be holy and blameless before Him as this is why we were created in His image of love. We were created for His good pleasure and to subdue and take care of His creation. Well guess what, we all blew that from the beginning of the creation of man and woman as everyone has fallen short of His glory, thus needing His predestined plan of salvation through Christ as we choose to confess Him as our Lord and Savior.

 

[for_his_glory]

There is no way that Augustine's theories and philosophies will ever line up with scripture no matter how hard he tried.

 

[brightfame52]

Another scripture that puts forth the truth of faith or believing being the result of predestination is Acts 13:48

48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

This word ordained is tassō

to draw up in order, arrange
Usage: (a) I assign, arrange, (b) I determine; mid: I appoint.
as many as were appointed (A. V.ordained) (by God) to obtain eternal life, or to whom God bad decreed eternal life,

The word ordained here is also synonym to destine !

Now when was eternal life arranged and promised ? Before the world began Titus 1:1-2

Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

Promised is closely akin to agreement, arrangement, covenant

The ISV reads:

48 When the gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord. Meanwhile, all who had been destined to eternal life believed

 

[Hidden In Him]

48 When the gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord. Meanwhile, all who had been destined to eternal life believed

I'd like to answer this post, Brightfame, but it seems unfair for me to answer your posts without you answering mine. If you could, what was your answer to Post #42?

 

[Consecrated Life]

This is the million dollar question. Most in mans religions dont believe in this doctrine, or they believe it in a man centered way that deny the Sovereignty of God, but nevertheless its a Salvation Doctrine. In a book and chapter primarily about Salvation Paul writes Eph 1:3-6

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

Rom 8:28-30

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Theres no word of Salvation without predestination.

Why do you stop there ?

Do you think this Word was given to you by God with no regard or thought for the lost masses now suffering in the darkness & enslavement of sin , in desperate need of God's Loving rescue ?

What I'm interested in is what you think God has made you responsible for in having this knowledge & making application of God's plan of predestination to the next stranger you come across sitting in spiritual darkness , alone , in desperate need and desire, longing to be Loved ?
Enough of the predestination pussyfooting & half-stepping already .
Please continue and joyfully proclaim how God has commanded you to now grow in the constructive expenditure of His merciful message of predestination you have , as He intends for you to now apply it to the broken hearted, lost & wandering in this cursed world that you will come across on 11/ 6 / 2021, and everyday of your life thereafter
You've never said ?
" Be clothed with humility" ( 1 Peter 5:5 )

 

[Eddie42]

I find it strange how those who boast 'free will' and deny God's sovereign election, predestination; go on to pray to God for the salvation of their loved ones. Maybe they need to pray to their sovereign loved one rather than God, since they think it is within the free will power of the loved one to choose for salvation; rather than God doing the saving. It seems clear that the new birth, being born from above, is so clearly shown in the following:

"And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul." (Acts 16:14, KJV)

The scriptures are quite clear, the elect are born anew and faith is the first result, the first grace. Man is NOT born anew by his act of believing, his act of believing is because he has been born again. Man's reasoning likes use one half of a statement in John, and ignore the second half:

"but as many as did receive him to them he gave authority to become sons of God--to those believing(present tense) in his name, who--not of blood nor of a will of flesh, nor of a will of man but--of God were begotten(past tense)." (John 1:12-13, YLT)

'Verily, verily, I say to you--He who is hearing my word, and is believing Him(present tense) who sent me, hath life(present tense)age-during, and to judgment he doth not come, but hath passed(past tense) out of the death to the life". (John 5:24, YLT)

 

[for_his_glory]

Another scripture that puts forth the truth of faith or believing being the result of predestination is Acts 13:48

48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

This word ordained is tassō

to draw up in order, arrange
Usage: (a) I assign, arrange, (b) I determine; mid: I appoint.
as many as were appointed (A. V.ordained) (by God) to obtain eternal life, or to whom God bad decreed eternal life,

The word ordained here is also synonym to destine !

Now when was eternal life arranged and promised ? Before the world began Titus 1:1-2

Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

Promised is closely akin to agreement, arrangement, covenant

The ISV reads:

48 When the gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord. Meanwhile, all who had been destined to eternal life believed

There was nothing about predestination of the Gentiles. God ordained/decreed/extended His grace to the Gentiles as they too wanted to hear the teachings of Paul and come to God's salvation through Christ that the too would receive eternal life as they believed in Christ Jesus.

God grafted the believing Gentiles into the branch of Israel because of Israel's unbelief in rejecting Christ, they were broken off from the branch of Christ. The Gentiles were graphed into the branch to provoke the Jews to jealousy that they would also come to believe in Christ as their Messiah just like the Gentiles believe and will also have eternal life, Romans 11:11-36.

You really need to get rid of these Augustine theologies and turn back to what has already been written in the full context.

 

[Hidden In Him]

"but as many as did receive him to them he gave authority to become sons of God--to those believing(present tense) in his name, who--not of blood nor of a will of flesh, nor of a will of man but--of God were begotten(past tense)." (John 1:12-13, YLT)

Greetings, Eddie.

Your verse begins with "to as many as received Him," which is an act of man. The rest of the verse is God's response, and refers specifically to the baptism in the Holy Spirit, through which He was giving them the authority to become the sons of God, born of the Spirit from above.

11 He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the authority to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. (John 1:11-13)

This passage is simply saying, then, that the baptism in the Holy Spirit is something that can never lay in the hands of man to decide if he will be given or not. The decision rests entirely with God. But in New Testament times it was being given to those who were believing on His name. You see this with what happened with Cornelius and his family.

34 Then Peter opened his mouth and said... 43 To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins.” 44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. (Acts 10:34-44)

 

[Edward]

Not only were they predestinated to Faith, but predestinated to be saved, They were saved already in the purpose of God before the world began 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,


Eph 2:8-9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Let's take a glance from a different angle.

If everyone has been predestined either to live or to be condemned and there's no way to change your destination... Then, what are we supposed to with all these verses that tell us to do something, to seek the Lord?

2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land..../

If I was predestined to go to Heaven when I die...then I don't have to be humble? I don't have to pray? I don't have to seek the Lord's face? I don't have to turn from my wicked ways?? (Oh wait, there's the answer right there, I stopped too soon! ...then if I do these things, then God will hear MY prayers and will forgive my sin and heal my land.

Huh. That sort of specifically rules out predestination, doesn't it? This makes sure sound like...we have a free will and make our own choices. Now I know that predestination sounds like a really good deal and all, but wow man it just don't make sense what you say. Question: Where does Predestination leave any room for...(wait4it)...the Fear of God?

Why should I fear God if I was elected and selected and my destiny is already carved in stone. What fear of God?!
Um, actually, that's one of the first things He taught me, was to fear God. The beginning of Wisdom is the fear of God. So...there's just too much scripture that doesn't agree with your premise of predestination. It has to agree with all of scripture.

 

[for_his_glory]

I find it strange how those who boast 'free will' and deny God's sovereign election, predestination; go on to pray to God for the salvation of their loved ones. Maybe they need to pray to their sovereign loved one rather than God, since they think it is within the free will power of the loved one to choose for salvation; rather than God doing the saving. It seems clear that the new birth, being born from above, is so clearly shown in the following:

It's just sad when people would rather believe a man's doctrine that was first taught from 354-430AD up to present day over that of the doctrine of Christ for what He has already taught.

Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

 

[for_his_glory]

Many people teach that man either has no free-will (fatalism) or limited amounts of it. The Bible teaches that every person with a moral capacity has the freedom of will to decide whether or not to obey God. Simply put, the Bible teaches that God elected (predestined or set in place) to save every soul who fears (respects) God and works righteousness, (Acts 10:34-35). That is, before time eternal, God predestined that men would be saved "in Christ" (Eph. 1:3-4, 7-12). God predestined the "plan" of human redemption (Eph. 3:10-11).

God also determined that man would have free-will, the ability and responsibility to choose to obey Him (cf. Gen. 3:1-6; Josh. 24:15; Matt. 11:28). God did not predestine the man (which individuals would be saved & lost), He predestined the plan (how men would be saved) - read again Acts 10:34-35; Eph. 1:3-12; Rom. 8:28-30; 10:9-17.

Some do not understand the above passages on predestination. They think that if a person is not of those predestinated, he is just out of luck, is eternally damned, and there is nothing he can do about it. However, it is a particular group or class of people that God chose before the foundation of the world and not individuals. It is up to us to be part of that class of those "in Him" if we want to be of the chosen.

Let me illustrate it this way:
A school teacher on the first day of class told his students that some would pass and some would fail the course they were about to take. He then described the things necessary for one to be of those who would pass. At the end of the school year, just as the teacher had said, some passed and some failed. Since the teacher had predestinated the outcome before he began, does it mean that he caused each individual to either pass or fail and there was nothing they could do about it? Certainly not! It was up to each student to be of whichever group he desired. Likewise, God predetermined before He made the world that He would choose those "in Christ" and now it is up to us to be of those in Christ.​

FREEWILL
By Joe R. Price
joe@bibleanswer.com




​

 

[smaller]

Believers are predestined to be saved, and the devil who tempts them is predestined to the lake of fire

So technically both sides of the equation apply, if properly attributed to the respective parties

Remember, Jesus looked Peter in the face and spoke to Satan

He could do the same with any of us, i.e. when the tempter is operating

There really is no other way to make every word of God apply to us, per Matt. 4:4 and Luke 4:4 if we dodge the words we don't happen to like

IF we perceive this matter accurately, we'll see that predestination to HELL is our ally in the fights against temptations of the tempter

They've been very helpful for me, personally

 

[Edward]

Over time I have learned that, before the foundation of the world, God wrote a book about each of us. And if we are able to hear His voice (actually, not hard to do) and we will always obey Him then we will live out God's plan and will for our lives. But each time that we disobey God, then we have...used our own free will, have missed an opportunity to please God, and so...we (as individuals and a people) don't always accomplish what God sets before us. Sometimes (I've heard through testimonies) that the task that God needed accomplished is sometimes important and so is given to someone else to do so that God can achieve His purpose.

So it is only in God's original plan of a predestination. But when a liberal amount of Free Will is introduced, then things don't always go according to plan. Then the book/predestination is changed. God don't force anything on to any person.

You Have Not Because You Ask Not. Jesus is the only one who ever always obeyed God's voice. Jesus Himself said, I only do what I see or hear the Father do. Of Jesus's own free will, He did this.

It's not hard to hear God's voice. Many times your conscience will speak to you. Always obey what your conscience say to do. Your conscience is your spirit and is in direct communication with God's Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit Bears Witness with our spirit (means they talk!), so your spirit always knows what the right thing to do is...!!

 

[Consecrated Life]

I wonder why none of the predestined ever elaborates on what the impact of predestination is in helping them as they go into the world as God's ambassadors , commissioned to love and give God's hope to the lost ?
What effect does your predestination have on your meeting the deepest needs of those you meet in the highways & byways of this cursed planet crying out for hope ?
Or is predestination really not about the lost ?
" I am an ambassador " ( Ephesians 6:20 )

 

[for_his_glory]

Everyone has there own definition of God's predestination and I thought it would be helpful if we see all the scriptures that are written about this. Sorry it's a little blurry on the left side

 

[Consecrated Life]

What A persons definition of predestination is becomes known in what they define as their Divine moral imperative attached to predestination is ?
What is the great result of their predestination as it applies to living in a cursed world full of weak, frail & lost humanity ?
For what purpose of God, did God create your predestination ?
Jesus expressed His purpose from God the Father in His predestined becoming of flesh powerfully and clearly .
How odd then that some who lay claim to the predestined indwelling of the Holy Spirit are at a loss to express any attached purpose, boldly assured by their predestined partnership with God ?

" I came that they may have life , and may have it abundantly ."
( John10:10 )

 

[brightfame52]

One writer wrote and I quote:

Predestination is the Decree of God, whereby{according to the counsel of His own will} He foreordained some of mankind to eternal life, and refused or passed by others for the praise of His glorious Mercy and Justice. Some are vessels of mercy, others are vessels of wrath. “Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to show His wrath,and to make His power known, endured with much long-suffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction; and that he might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had afore prepared unto glory.” Rom.9:21-23.

http://www.supralapsarian.com/pdf/ness-arminianism.pdf