Do you haft to be baptized?

[jasoncran]

Water can not do, what it took "blood' to wash away...

i agree the death of the lord and the very animal used by the jews and isrealites to cleanse themselves always pointed to blood

"for without the shedding of blood theres no remission of sins"

i never said that we shouldnt do it handy, just that its not that act of salvation.


if it is then we should be doing it immediately not whenever wherever we have the time. im sure you wouldnt want to do a large en masse baptism in puget sound where in the summer it 50f!

so salvation must wait that long? do you see a problem with that if we did it only seasonly?most churches dont do it until they get enough willing to do it.

romans 10

for with the mouth is made unto confession and confession unto salvation.

yes i do see that as a start there in verse 10 but

LET ME REPEAT. I QUESTION ANYONE WHO REFUSES TO DO THAT ACT OF BAPTISM REPENTANCE.


comprende! its repent first, then learn and study then understand what it is and why you are being baptised. thus pauls statement of why he didnt baptise much. he wanted only mature and serious christians that did know the word. its a given in context as he spent time with them DISCPILING THEM!

man its funny. i was thinking the other day i should lay hands and pray for the hs on nathan and now being that i can as any christian can baptize another.he has asked.

perhaps i will the ocean is warm year round. i will consult with my church and his mother to whom was baptised and she also recieved the holy ghost.

i have baptised im my old churched in a simple pool that was hand built.

the sad thing as me and jeff have discussed the churches have perveted that idea.

for instance he confessed that if one is to be accepted by the church of christ one must be baptised only by them all others dont count.

i'm glad i wasnt raised like that in my old church. i am non-demonational for a reason.i can attend any church. i am not a utheran, calvinist, pentacostal.no box fits me fully though i claim charismata but i dont fit their beliefs fully either.

i do have a home church, but i dont agree with the entire statement of faith either.ie healing promises, and eschatology.

 

[Webb]

Grubal it appears you don't understand the connection between water and the blood.

Jason, read I Cor. 1 again. The reason Paul baptized a few only at Corinth was lest ANY should say he baptized in his own name, vs.15. They at Corinth were having preacheritis, read vs. 11 on. However, you are right on when you say repentance preceeds baptism.

 

[handy]

i never said that we shouldnt do it handy, just that its not that act of salvation.

The question of the OP is

Do you haft to be baptized?

Not...baptism is an act of salvation.

Two separate issues and no, we need not resolve the one in order to answer the other.

Is baptism an act of salvation....good question we can study it.

Let's say for the sake of argument though that baptism doesn't save...Do we have to be baptized?

Yes. Yes we do.

As for when one should be baptized...as soon as possible.

I agree that the Church has made baptism too complicated in too many ways.

If Nathan has asked to be baptized...then baptize him. If he would like to have a church baptism and all that, OK...if not, take him to the ocean....or does a neighbor have a handy pool. Whatever. Baptize him.

If a person makes a decision for the Lord, baptize them. I cannot fathom why there is such a rush to the whole "ask Jesus into the heart thing" (and no, I'm not going to sideline the topic) and then, once that's done...baptism...well, let's just slooowwww down! Why? That certainly isn't the model within the Scriptures...they believed and were baptized. Right away.

Again, the words echo down through the centuries...."Here's water, what's to prevent me from being baptized?"

if it is then we should be doing it immediately not whenever wherever we have the time. im sure you wouldnt want to do a large en masse baptism in puget sound where in the summer it 50f!

Yes, and why not? Yes, we should be doing it immediately and why not do a large en masse baptism in Puget Sound, where in the summer it's 50f! We do baptisms in rivers around here and believe me, it's chilly. Or, one can use a pool, a baptismal at a church, natural hot springs...whatever water is around can be used....but for goodness sakes, let's baptize!!!!

It seems we are using the confusion that too many churches have wrought over baptism as an excuse not to do it.

Water can not do, what it took "blood' to wash away...

Yes, Jesus' blood has washed away the sins...so does that mean we are not to baptize...Sorry, but Peter, Paul, Philip, all the saints of the early church disagree, both by their words and by their actions. They baptized. Even Paul's...whose focus wasn't to do the water baptisms...just to evangelize and move on...still baptized and had those within his ministry baptize. That text about Crispus and the Corinthians I shared, how they believed and were baptized, this was when Paul was preaching to them. Even if Paul didn't dunk them (although he personally baptized Crispus)...he was there ministering when they were baptized.

But, back to the fact that Jesus' blood washed away the sins...OK...Yes. In full agreement...

We still need to be baptized.

Galatians 3:26-27: For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.

Colossians 2:9-12: For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form, and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority; and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ; having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

And that pesky Peter...how dare he actually say it...wow...he actually said that baptism now saves us....

1 Peter 3:21-22: Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you—not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who is at the right hand of God, having gone into heaven, after angels and authorities and powers had been subjected to Him.

I'm not arguing with anyone here...or at least I'm not trying to. I'm just answering the question of the OP, "Do we haft to be baptized?" with a resounding

YES!

 

[glorydaz]

You know, I could personally believe that baptism can be performed by the flying spaghetti monster flinging tomato sauce...but that doesn't make it true. This is what Christian growth is all about, moving from our limited and often misunderstood conceptions into God's truth about things. And, the only way we can truly do that is via subjecting our own thoughts and ideas to the light of Scripture. That is what Scripture is for, for "reproof and correction" of mistaken ideas.

What biblical reasons do you have to hold to the idea that baptism is an inward acceptance? I can't think of any scripture whatsoever that describes baptism in such terms. Jesus certainly didn't give us an example of an "inward acceptance". He was baptized because He said it was fitting to "fulfill all righteousness". Water baptism is clearly part of what Christians did...as the Ethiopian said to Philip, "Here's water, what's to prevent me from being baptized?"

Water baptism is and has always been an outward sign, to show the world who were the followers of Christ. Before the cross, John's baptism was a call to repentance to prepare the way for the coming Messiah. The people were told to confess their sins, and those who came without the desire to repent were turned away by John. Confession of sins does not remove them. It takes more, and Jesus, the Lamb of God, is who takes away sin when He baptizes us with the Holy Spirit.

In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. And the same John had his raiment of camel's hair, and a leathern girdle about his loins; and his meat was locusts and wild honey. Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan, And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins. But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:

Those who believe on Him who was sent, receive Him and He gives us the POWER (Holy Spirit) to become the sons of God. Born, not of the will of the flesh, nor the will of man, but of God. Man cannot, through any means, become the sons of God. The Holy Spirit of Christ bestows the GIFT of the Holy Spirit on those who have faith in Him.

He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Here we see Peter's "Aha moment," where he remembered how the Lord had told him about the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

Acts 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

John 14:26 - But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Here we see salvation. Whosoever believeth in Him shall have remission of sins. Sins are actually taken away, not just confessed. The Spirit fell on them WHICH HEARD THE WORD. (washing of the water of the word), Born again of water and Spirit as Jesus told Nicodemus.

To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

The baptism of the Holy Spirit is the Promised "Gift" to the believer...requiring an operation of God unto salvation.

Water baptism is a command, not unto salvation but as an act of obedience. So believers, today, are water baptized after they're saved. It is an outward sign of what has already transpired in the heart, showing we are followers of Christ. It was an outward sign before the cross and it's an outward sign after the cross.

 

[Webb]

Handy very aptly and clearly answered "---the question of the op 'Do we haft to be baptized?' with a resounding YES!" I have found no posts of succesful repudiation of what she wrote. I now pose the question: If there is something God tells us to do and we refuse to do it, WHAT are the eternal consequenses if we die in such state???

 

[kjb1769]

Baptism is a requirement.
But it is not water.

Today for the Church the Body of Christ.
It is by the Spirit.

For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. -1 Corinthians 12:13

For Peter & the 11 it was part of their gospel along with repentance keeping the commandments & holding out to the end.
Baptism was with water for Israel for the remission of sins.

Not so today in the dispensation of Grace.

There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; -Ephesians 4:4
One Lord, one faith, one baptism, -Ephesians 4:5
One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. -Ephesians 4:6

 

[handy]

Baptism was with water for Israel for the remission of sins.

Not so today in the dispensation of Grace.

Wrong. I realize I'm speaking boldly...but nonetheless it is wrong.

Please, people, just read God's word, it shows it plainly:

Acts 10: Then Peter answered, 47 “Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?â€

Peter was not speaking to Israel during the time of Christ...He was speaking of Gentiles after Pentecost.

 

[glorydaz]

Wrong. I realize I'm speaking boldly...but nonetheless it is wrong.

Please, people, just read God's word, it shows it plainly:

Acts 10: Then Peter answered, 47 “Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?â€

Peter was not speaking to Israel during the time of Christ...He was speaking of Gentiles after Pentecost.

He was saying we couldn't be refused baptism with water. Just as we can't be refused circumcision of the flesh. Just as we can't be refused foot washing. Just as we can't be refused partaking in the Lord's supper. We each walk in the light we're given, and as the Lord convicts our hearts about any particular thing like eating meats, etc., we walk in that light. We are no longer under the law, with it's "do this and don't do that."

We are "washed...sanctified...and justified by the Spirit of God".

The ONE BAPTISM is the baptism of the Spirit.

1 Corinthians 6:11-13 - "And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any. Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body."

 

[jasoncran]

funny these water baptism pushers often miss that the holy spirit is essential.

baptism means to immerse not to sprinkle. so luthers baby sprinkling and or the rcc doesnt count

the puget sound in winter, one cant baptist in that as its even colder in some parts.

SO I THOUGH i WASNT saved as per handys view somehow got delivered from my sin(i wasnt baptised till 1997 a year after the fact of repentance). i prayed the prayer as know man told me nor talked to me god told me to repent and i believed and did just that.yet inbetween that i recieved the baptism of the holy spirit and did operate in that.

so God didndt really enter me via the hs? i wasnt saved ever till my baptism? he didnt heal me of being a bi? hmm funny.

one could aslo argue that recieving the holy ghost and operating in that like manner with evidence is also mandatory for salvation.

case in point.

in acts
2:38

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost

 

[jasoncran]

and God's spirit did it backwards he came into them first without water being even used!
acts 10

44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

45And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? 48And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days

so God didnt get that memo then. must have misunderstood peter or the others. so God dwells in unrepent sinners then?

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Nope - but why wouldn't you??

I know the Bible says Jesus was baptized, but are Christians required to be? I know a lot of Christians believe you don't haft to, and some believe you must be baptized.

The "Normative process" in the new testament was that Believers (new Christians/converts/whatever) WERE Baptised in Water. Peter said to "Repent, and be baptised, the eunuch was baptized. The Didache indicates the "bapticm was done, and Jesus said (in red letters):

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world.

So - BE BAPTIZED whenever you become a Christian. Simple as that.

It WON'T "Save you", that's supposed to happen first. But you WILL be being obedient to the Word.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I know the Bible says Jesus was baptized, but are Christians required to be? I know a lot of Christians believe you don't haft to, and some believe you must be baptized.

My opinion on the matter is God commanded it. Just do it.

If a refusal to get baptized represents a rejection of the forgiveness of God in Christ, then not being baptized will condemn a person...along with all the other things God commands that a person doesn't do because they have rejected God's forgiveness of sins in Christ.

Peter explains to us how baptism is "the pledge of a clear conscience toward God" (1 Peter 3:21 NIV1984). We have a change of heart towards the things of God and we show that repentance and our pledge to now keep a clear conscience and follow Christ by being water baptized. Similar to how John baptized people who repented in preparation for the coming of Messiah--thus the phrase 'baptism of repentance' for the forgiveness of sins.

 

[glorydaz]

Handy very aptly and clearly answered "---the question of the op 'Do we haft to be baptized?' with a resounding YES!" I have found no posts of succesful repudiation of what she wrote. I now pose the question: If there is something God tells us to do and we refuse to do it, WHAT are the eternal consequenses if we die in such state???

No, we don't hafta be water baptised. The thief on the cross wasn't.

We are saved by grace through faith when we BELIEVE on the Lord Jesus Christ.

Actually, God tells us to do many things we don't do.

Did you sell all you owned and give it to the poor when you followed Him? Luke 18

Doe you hate your father, mother, wife, and children?

Luke 14:26 "If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple."

Do you turn the other cheek if someone comes along and hits you? If you're sued, do you give him what he asks for and more besides? If someone forces you to go a mile, do you go two? If the bum down the street wants to borrow 100 bucks, do you give it to him? How about a thousand?

Matthew 5:39-42 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also. And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.

And best of all...

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Jesus told John the Baptist that He would allow John to baptize Him to "fulfill all righteousness".

That he did...for us.

Romans 8:3-4 "For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

 

[theLords]

Oooooh, Bible literalism, my favorite game. Here's my contribution:

Joh 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

[jasoncran]

that is what jer 31 alludes to the law be written on mens heart.

but we are commanded to be baptised but not unto salvation.

 

[theLords]

Actually, God tells us to do many things we don't do.

Romans 6:13
Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
What, therefore? Shall we sin because we are not under The Written Law but under grace? God forbid!

 

[jasoncran]

daz the word hate isnt hate but to love less.

greek doesnt have the world to love more so it has the word closest to hate.

 

[glorydaz]

daz the word hate isnt hate but to love less.

greek doesnt have the world to love more so it has the word closest to hate.

Yeah, I know that Jason. My point was one must understand why Jesus said some of the things He said, and to understand that Jesus fulfilled all righteousness for us since we will always come short of the glory of God. Baptism is a work of righteousness, and we know that nothing we do apart from believing God will save us. Jesus did all of it for us. We could just as easily claim that breaking bread was required for our salvation. Jesus told us to do it.

We are not longer under the law with all it's rights and rituals. Should we be baptized? I was, and I baptised my own kids, but it is only an outward sign of what has transpired in our hearts. Personally, I think it's a chance for the believer to openly declare his belief...confessing Christ, if you will. But, not all believers feel that way, and they needn't do anything the Lord doesn't put on their heart.

 

[Webb]

I urge all to read the debate between Glorydaz and myself on the subject of Holy Spirit baptism and water baptism. Because this debate is current I shall not make reply to his input on this thread but gladly look forward to in if and when it appears in the debate forum.

 

[EricTheBaptist]

You know, I could personally believe that baptism can be performed by the flying spaghetti monster flinging tomato sauce...but that doesn't make it true. This is what Christian growth is all about, moving from our limited and often misunderstood conceptions into God's truth about things. And, the only way we can truly do that is via subjecting our own thoughts and ideas to the light of Scripture. That is what Scripture is for, for "reproof and correction" of mistaken ideas.

What biblical reasons do you have to hold to the idea that baptism is an inward acceptance? I can't think of any scripture whatsoever that describes baptism in such terms. Jesus certainly didn't give us an example of an "inward acceptance". He was baptized because He said it was fitting to "fulfill all righteousness". Water baptism is clearly part of what Christians did...as the Ethiopian said to Philip, "Here's water, what's to prevent me from being baptized?"

My reason comes not from scripture, but from common sense. Getting dipped in water means nothing when you don't mean it. Baptism in my sense means more of an inward acceptance.