Of course we shouldn't sin just because we're under grace. No true believer thinks that as far as I've ever seen. Nor was I coming close to implying such. Jesus set a very high bar...for a reason. He knew none of us could possibly do all he asked without the Holy Spirit empowering and transforming us. If we say we don't sin, we're a liar, according to John.
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Tired of all the political strife and infighting?
Find out how Christians are supposed to act in the following study
https://christianforums.net/threads/charismatic-bible-studies-1-peter-2-11-17.109823/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Do you haft to be baptized?
- Thread starter EricTheBaptist
- Start date
Of course we shouldn't sin just because we're under grace. No true believer thinks that as far as I've ever seen. Nor was I coming close to implying such. Jesus set a very high bar...for a reason. He knew none of us could possibly do all he asked without the Holy Spirit empowering and transforming us. If we say we don't sin, we're a liar, according to John.
In the Old Testament, when a non-Jew wanted to follow the God of Israel and convert, they had to be circumcised, baptized, and bring a burnt offering. At least we don't have to do that.
Yes, I'm sorry I've fallen behind on our debate. I really haven't felt like you even listen to what I say, but I'll give it another go in the next day or two. I warned you I might not be a debater.
Grubal Muruch
Member
Those of us that believe and trust in the, "Dispensation of Grace," seem to get a "bum rap" when it comes to the idea of sin...Others have the impression that we, walk up during an altar call, say the sinners prayer then go on our merry way through life, sinning and doing whatever comes to mind at the moment, and just kick back and say to our self, "we said the prayer, and were forgiven, that's all that counts..." A "true" born again Christian has been placed into the "body of Christ" and been cleansed by the Spirit and is considered a "child of God." The Word states in 1 Corinthians 6:19--"What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?" A true Christian has been bought with a price, that being the "shed blood of Christ."
We are to consider our self, "dead to sin" and to no longer live in it...Because the Holy Spirit dwells in us and we are His temple...Once one is "born again Spiritually" the Spirit creates works/fruits in the believers life...We are no longer to be living for self and the desires of the flesh...But, are to walk in "newness of life, as a "child of God..."
We are still able to "choose" to sin" because we are still in the flesh however, if a person says they are "born again" and lives a "sinful lifestyle" and doesn't bring forth fruit/works then that would be a sign, they were "truly" never "born again" in the first place...
We are to consider our self, "dead to sin" and to no longer live in it...Because the Holy Spirit dwells in us and we are His temple...Once one is "born again Spiritually" the Spirit creates works/fruits in the believers life...We are no longer to be living for self and the desires of the flesh...But, are to walk in "newness of life, as a "child of God..."
We are still able to "choose" to sin" because we are still in the flesh however, if a person says they are "born again" and lives a "sinful lifestyle" and doesn't bring forth fruit/works then that would be a sign, they were "truly" never "born again" in the first place...
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Asyncritus
Guest
Mr 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Ac 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
If your sins aren't remitted, you're finished.
Ga 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
If you haven't been baptized, you haven't put on Christ.
1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
jasoncran
Member
only paul was baptised.hmm whom baptised the disciples?
jesus breathed on them to recieve the holy ghost and yet nothing recorded on them being dunked.
i do see that it is a command should be followed.
Ga 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
If you haven't been baptized, you haven't put on Christ.
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. -1 Corinthians 12:13
If you aren't baptized by the Spirit you haven't put on Christ.
Are you in the body?
If you haven't been baptized, you haven't put on Christ.
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. -1 Corinthians 12:13
If you aren't baptized by the Spirit you haven't put on Christ.
Are you in the body?
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Asyncritus
Guest
John the Baptist. Remember? They were John's disciples till they met Jesus.
If they were John's disciples, they MUST have been dunked.
So do I. It's not an optional extra.
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Asyncritus
Guest
You got this wrong, friend.
Jesus baptised people, by his disciples:
Joh 4:1 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John,
Joh 4:2 (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)
No Holy Spirit yet given.
Notice the order here:
Acts 2.38 And Peter said unto them,
(1) Repent ye,
(2) and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins;
(3) and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
[...]
41 They then that received his word were baptized: and there were added unto them in that day about three thousand souls.
Philip baptized, but not with the Spirit:
Ac 8:12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
Ac 8:13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.
Ac 8:16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Ac 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
Ac 8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
Ac 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
They were baptized with the HSp, and HAD TO BE BAPTIZED WITH WATER.
Ac 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
Paul baptised too:
Lydia:
Ac 16:15 And when she was baptized, and her household, she besought us, saying, If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house, and abide there. And she constrained us.
The Philippian Jailor:
Ac 16:33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.
Crispus and many Corinthians:
Ac 18:8 And Crispus, the chief ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized.
This last one is important, because you quoted 1 Cor 12.28
Now you know how they were baptised.
1Co 1:14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
1Co 1:15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
1Co 1:16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
Notice, Paul did the baptizing, not the Holy Spirit.
Now all these apostles thought, no, were commanded by the Lord baptise all believers.
They did.
Now who can forbid water? And on what grounds?
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stovebolts
Member
1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God ,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
Common sense that supports your view is found in the Bible...
stovebolts
Member
Do you follow Christ? You know what I'm saying, do the things Jesus did... it's where the rubber meets the road kind of thing. As an adult, Jesus was baptized which marked the beginning of his ministry. As a follower of Christ, why wouldn't you follow Jesus into the baptismal pool?
stovebolts
Member
John 3:26 And they came unto John, and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou barest witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and all men come to him.
As far as them being 'dunked', please see above.
I can't believe I'm going to post this... like the topic needs another monkey wrench... and yes, I believe that baptism plays a crucial role in a Chrisians life. But here it goes..
Acts 8:13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.
We see that Simon himself believed and then was even baptized. But it wasnt' just Simon, it was the others as well. Follow along.
14Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
15Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
16(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
17Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
:waving
What I want to point out though, is that when you see a passage that refers to one receiving the Holy Spirit, Baptism is never very far from the equation.
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. -1 Corinthians 12:13
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. -Galatians 3:27
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. -Galatians 3:28
There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; -Ephesians 4:4
One Lord, one faith, one baptism, -Ephesians 4:5
One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. -Ephesians 4:6
To get into the "one" Body of Christ you need one baptism "by" one "Spirit".
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. -Galatians 3:27
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. -Galatians 3:28
There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; -Ephesians 4:4
One Lord, one faith, one baptism, -Ephesians 4:5
One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. -Ephesians 4:6
To get into the "one" Body of Christ you need one baptism "by" one "Spirit".
stovebolts
Member
So are you saying that an adult being fully immersed plays no role in the above mentioned baptism, and thus holds no value?
I believe the Bible means what it says.
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. -1 Corinthians 12:13
Does it say "by one Spirit", we are baptized into one body?
stovebolts
Member
That's right. All are welcome to the Baptismal pool. It aint just a Jewish thingy. Thanks for confirming ;)
I see that your trusting your salvation on "your" water baptism!
I'll trust The finished work of Christ.
And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. -1 Corinthians 6:11
stovebolts
Member
I know that I have put my trust in Jesus and I don't have a problem following Jesus into the baptismal waters because I know he met me there and I came out of the baptismal pool with all my sins being forgiven and I was a new creature in Christ. I died, was buried and was raised to new life (Romans 6)
You see, I have been justified by faith, and my actions affirm my faith, just like Abram.
Why are you so against baptism for a believer?
I'm against trusting in water baptism for your, or anyone's salvation!
I'm for trusting in Christ.
You must be baptized to enter into the Body of Christ, that baptism is by the Spirit.