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Do you haft to be baptized?

I'm against trusting in water baptism for your, or anyone's salvation!

I'm for trusting in Christ.

You must be baptized to enter into the Body of Christ, that baptism is by the Spirit.

I thought we were justified by faith? Tell me, when was Abram justified? And didn't Abram do what God wanted him to do through that faith? And afterward, it was credited to him as righteousness.

Are you now saying that God can't save somebody in the baptismal pool?
 
Hi KJB1769

Regardless how loud and much one talks about believing and trusting in only Jesus for heaven the fact remains if one does NOT do what Jesus says Do in the way Jesus says to DO it and for the reason He says we must DO it, as James said, that man's religion is in vain.
 
TO ALL,

LOVE TO ALL IN THE HOLY PRECIOUS NAME OF JESUS CHRIST!! First, I have to say that I am not sure who actually runs these websites on the internet. Sometimes I think it's just a group of people on each website, because these answers can't be serious. I say this without judgement. I say this more in a surprising kind of way. My job takes me to different parts of the world every month for many years now, and every church function, service, bible study, or meeting with believers; there is always some discussion with a simple answer.

Let's go back to the beginning of the BIBLE. Everyone do research. How many times did GOD change HIS laws from OT to NT because of our sins and weaknesses?? If you dont know, then, this is a great exercise to read the WORD all over again, and learn more through your personal relationship with HIM, not just through what someone on a pulpit tells you ( priest, minister, pastor, etc..). YES, they are needed, so, please dont think I look down on them. But, we are ordered by JESUS to search the scriptures ourselves:
JOHN 5:36-40
36 “I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the works that the Father has given me to finish—the very works that I am doing—testify that the Father has sent me. 37 And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form, 38 nor does his word dwell in you, for you do not believe the one he sent. 39 You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, 40 yet you refuse to come to me to have life.

Some people dont realize that if your teacher, pastor, minister, etc... WHO IS HUMAN and is imperfect. If they teach you wrong, and you dont search the scriptures, then, whose fault is it?? Theirs?? No, yours.

The greatest commandments that GOD brought through JESUS were these:
MARK 12:28-31
28 One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, “Of all the commandments, which is the most important?â€
29 “The most important one,†answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.31 The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself. There is no commandment greater than these.â€

So, if we love GOD and our neighbor, then, we do anything to win over our neighbor to CHRIST!! Just like GOD changed HIS laws for us, gave us many chances, and constantly forgave us of our sins. We should do the same with each other. The wise man or woman should be more humble in their approach to someone that is not a wise ( in the spirit I am talking about, not just scholaticism).

First that person trying to give the " gospel", must be a living representation of it. If they are not, then, their words are futile. Since we are here on the internet, no one knows or sees each other. So each man and woman is stuck to their impression of their comprehension of the words that each person uses. This doesnt mean their comprehension is right about the person; because only GOD knows the hearts and movement of people we can't see. GOD can change anyone in a second. Thats why we must walk and treat all people in love until CHRIST comes again. Loving believers, non-believers, and enemies; love all of them. Treating your Christian brother and sisters special:
ROMANS 16:16-19
16 Greet one another with a holy kiss.

All the churches of Christ send greetings. 17 I urge you, brothers and sisters, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them. 18 For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the minds of naive people. 19 Everyone has heard about your obedience, so I rejoice because of you; but I want you to be wise about what is good, and innocent about what is evil.

So, in this discussion in treating each other special, we have to remember what JESUS says about edifying one another:
ROMANS 14:5-9
5 One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. 6 Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7 For none of us lives for ourselves alone, and none of us dies for ourselves alone. 8 If we live, we live for the Lord; and if we die, we die for the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. 9 For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

So in this baptisim case, both sides are right. If there are people that believe in the water baptism, then, they follow and understand that doctrines of the OT and the law that JESUS established on the church buildings to baptize. Baptism of water was supposed to mean that you are washing away your sins ( your old self), and moving forth in your new creation in HIM ( JESUS). This is an open admittance whether we see like this or not. In a church you are in the open, in the Bible you were in a lake in front of people waiting behind you; an open admittance that you were a sinner and needed to be clean. This is also a great way to boost the confidence of a person. They realize they are not alone in their new life in CHRIST and in shedding their old wicked self. Really beautiful and amazing.

Then, there is the baptism of the HOLY SPIRIT that JOHN mentions that JESUS is greater and has came to do:
John 1:29-34
29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! 30 This is the one I meant when I said, ‘A man who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’ 31 I myself did not know him, but the reason I came baptizing with water was that he might be revealed to Israel.â€
32 Then John gave this testimony: “I saw the Spirit come down from heaven as a dove and remain on him. 33 And I myself did not know him, but the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is the one who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’ 34 I have seen and I testify that this is God’s Chosen One.â€[f]

ACTS 8:14-17
14 When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to Samaria. 15 When they arrived, they prayed for the new believers there that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16 because the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.

Here we learn that the HOLY SPIRIT can come to anyone at its will. But it's the heart that GOD puts the HOLY SPIRIT to chase after. CHRIST sending the disciples and not HIMSELF is good. The workers need to work because of their sin nature; which goes all the way back to a law GOD made after Adam and Eve sinned. We will have to labor to get anything; mentally, spiritually, or physically. JESUS who is the living WORD did not have to baptize; HE is not a sinner. HIS job was sacrifice, spread, and heal.

Remember that if the lame, dumb, blind, cripple, or other physical setbacks that stops someone to walk can't make it to church. OR in some places their is no church. Or if you were on the desert and wanted to be baptised. Even think the criminal on the cross that was with JESUS that JESUS said was forgiven and will go to heaven, he wasnt baptised by water. This is the baptism of the HOLY SPIRIT.

BOTH ARE RIGHT!! Stop proving and start loving each other in the HOLY PRECIOUS NAME OF JESUS CHRIST!! UNLESS, and I say again that this is just people who create this websites just to stir each other up. Either way LOVE TO ALL IN THE HOLY PRECIOUS NAME OF JESUS CHRIST!!

jesus4life
 
Hi KJB1769

Regardless how loud and much one talks about believing and trusting in only Jesus for heaven the fact remains if one does NOT do what Jesus says Do in the way Jesus says to DO it and for the reason He says we must DO it, as James said, that man's religion is in vain.

Excellent point.

For those with problems on baptism, please explain Romans 6:1-5. Isn't it by being united to Christ's death that we are saved?

Regards
 
Hi Stovebolts, & Webb

For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. -1 Corinthians 12:13

I believe the passage says by one Spirit, into one body.



Are y'all saying that no water baptism means no salvation?
 
KJB1769

You got it right! No water baptism for the remission of sins = no salvation, no remission of sins which results in missing heaven.
 
KJB1769

You got it right! No water baptism for the remission of sins = no salvation, no remission of sins which results in missing heaven.

I will graciously disagree.

In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, -Ephesians 1:13

I'll trust in Christ.

In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; -Ephesians 1:7

I'd rather be in the "Body of Christ".

But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him. -1 Corinthians 12:18
 
Hi Stovebolts, & Webb

For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. -1 Corinthians 12:13

I believe the passage says by one Spirit, into one body.



Are y'all saying that no water baptism means no salvation?

It's almost ironic that you bring up 1 Corinthians 12:13. Do you think that Paul is now talking about a different baptism than he spoke of when he opened this letter?


13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

14I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;

15Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.

16And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.

I would assert that when Paul speaks on baptism, he is speaking of a package deal, not just a piece of the deal. And Water is part of that deal as clearly noted in 1 Corinthians 1.
 
It's almost ironic that you bring up 1 Corinthians 12:13. Do you think that Paul is now talking about a different baptism than he spoke of when he opened this letter?


13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

14I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;

15Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.

16And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.

I would assert that when Paul speaks on baptism, he is speaking of a package deal, not just a piece of the deal. And Water is part of that deal as clearly noted in 1 Corinthians 1.

Water is absolutely in the first Chapter.

For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. -1 Corinthians 1:17

Eleven chapters later he is speaking about a baptism "by the Spirit" does that mean water?

But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will. -1 Corinthians 12:11
For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. -1 Corinthians 12:12
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. -1 Corinthians 12:13

Does the verse teach baptism by the Spirit or not?
 
Water is absolutely in the first Chapter.


Does the verse teach baptism by the Spirit or not?

Sure it does and I don't understand why you have to separate that from water. If somebody is thirsty, you wouldn't simply give him spiritual drink wish him well. No, you'd give him a physical drink and that would nourish his spirit.

Not only that, but Paul also writes in Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith and one baptism. I believe this affirms what he was speaking to, and trying to get across to the church in Corinth as stated in 1 Cor. 1 as a reference to baptism.

What I think your getting at though is this idea that it has to be one or the other. And before we go any further, no I don't ascribe to infant baptism. So when Paul and Peter writes on baptism, the picture I get is one where a believer comes to the baptismal pool with a clear conscience and a pricked heart toward God. It's a commitment to God and the first act of obedience toward Christ. The Picture Paul paints in Romans 6 is one where the believer dies, and is buried with Christ, and is raised as a new, resurrected creature in Christ when he comes out of the baptismal pool.

Baptism is way more than a ritual, so if your viewing it as a ritual then I'd agree with you. But I don't see Baptism as a mere ritual. No, I see it as an encounter with the blood of Christ where ones sins are washed away and when one comes out of the baptismal pool, he has the assurance of his salvation because scriptures tell us we have that assurance.
 
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TO ALL,

LOVE TO ALL IN THE HOLY PRECIOUS NAME OF JESUS CHRIST!! First, I have to say that I am not sure who actually runs these websites on the internet. Sometimes I think it's just a group of people on each website, because these answers can't be serious. I say this without judgement. I say this more in a surprising kind of way. My job takes me to different parts of the world every month for many years now, and every church function, service, bible study, or meeting with believers; there is always some discussion with a simple answer.

Let's go back to the beginning of the BIBLE. Everyone do research. How many times did GOD change HIS laws from OT to NT because of our sins and weaknesses?? If you dont know, then, this is a great exercise to read the WORD all over again, and learn more through your personal relationship with HIM, not just through what someone on a pulpit tells you ( priest, minister, pastor, etc..). YES, they are needed, so, please dont think I look down on them. But, we are ordered by JESUS to search the scriptures ourselves:
JOHN 5:36-40
36 “I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the works that the Father has given me to finish—the very works that I am doing—testify that the Father has sent me. 37 And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form, 38 nor does his word dwell in you, for you do not believe the one he sent. 39 You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, 40 yet you refuse to come to me to have life.

Some people dont realize that if your teacher, pastor, minister, etc... WHO IS HUMAN and is imperfect. If they teach you wrong, and you dont search the scriptures, then, whose fault is it?? Theirs?? No, yours.

The greatest commandments that GOD brought through JESUS were these:
MARK 12:28-31
28 One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, “Of all the commandments, which is the most important?â€
29 “The most important one,†answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.31 The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself. There is no commandment greater than these.â€

So, if we love GOD and our neighbor, then, we do anything to win over our neighbor to CHRIST!! Just like GOD changed HIS laws for us, gave us many chances, and constantly forgave us of our sins. We should do the same with each other. The wise man or woman should be more humble in their approach to someone that is not a wise ( in the spirit I am talking about, not just scholaticism).

First that person trying to give the " gospel", must be a living representation of it. If they are not, then, their words are futile. Since we are here on the internet, no one knows or sees each other. So each man and woman is stuck to their impression of their comprehension of the words that each person uses. This doesnt mean their comprehension is right about the person; because only GOD knows the hearts and movement of people we can't see. GOD can change anyone in a second. Thats why we must walk and treat all people in love until CHRIST comes again. Loving believers, non-believers, and enemies; love all of them. Treating your Christian brother and sisters special:
ROMANS 16:16-19
16 Greet one another with a holy kiss.

All the churches of Christ send greetings. 17 I urge you, brothers and sisters, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them. 18 For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the minds of naive people. 19 Everyone has heard about your obedience, so I rejoice because of you; but I want you to be wise about what is good, and innocent about what is evil.

So, in this discussion in treating each other special, we have to remember what JESUS says about edifying one another:
ROMANS 14:5-9
5 One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. 6 Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7 For none of us lives for ourselves alone, and none of us dies for ourselves alone. 8 If we live, we live for the Lord; and if we die, we die for the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. 9 For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

So in this baptisim case, both sides are right. If there are people that believe in the water baptism, then, they follow and understand that doctrines of the OT and the law that JESUS established on the church buildings to baptize. Baptism of water was supposed to mean that you are washing away your sins ( your old self), and moving forth in your new creation in HIM ( JESUS). This is an open admittance whether we see like this or not. In a church you are in the open, in the Bible you were in a lake in front of people waiting behind you; an open admittance that you were a sinner and needed to be clean. This is also a great way to boost the confidence of a person. They realize they are not alone in their new life in CHRIST and in shedding their old wicked self. Really beautiful and amazing.

Then, there is the baptism of the HOLY SPIRIT that JOHN mentions that JESUS is greater and has came to do:
John 1:29-34
29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! 30 This is the one I meant when I said, ‘A man who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’ 31 I myself did not know him, but the reason I came baptizing with water was that he might be revealed to Israel.â€
32 Then John gave this testimony: “I saw the Spirit come down from heaven as a dove and remain on him. 33 And I myself did not know him, but the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is the one who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’ 34 I have seen and I testify that this is God’s Chosen One.â€[f]

ACTS 8:14-17
14 When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to Samaria. 15 When they arrived, they prayed for the new believers there that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16 because the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.

Here we learn that the HOLY SPIRIT can come to anyone at its will. But it's the heart that GOD puts the HOLY SPIRIT to chase after. CHRIST sending the disciples and not HIMSELF is good. The workers need to work because of their sin nature; which goes all the way back to a law GOD made after Adam and Eve sinned. We will have to labor to get anything; mentally, spiritually, or physically. JESUS who is the living WORD did not have to baptize; HE is not a sinner. HIS job was sacrifice, spread, and heal.

Remember that if the lame, dumb, blind, cripple, or other physical setbacks that stops someone to walk can't make it to church. OR in some places their is no church. Or if you were on the desert and wanted to be baptised. Even think the criminal on the cross that was with JESUS that JESUS said was forgiven and will go to heaven, he wasnt baptised by water. This is the baptism of the HOLY SPIRIT.

BOTH ARE RIGHT!! Stop proving and start loving each other in the HOLY PRECIOUS NAME OF JESUS CHRIST!! UNLESS, and I say again that this is just people who create this websites just to stir each other up. Either way LOVE TO ALL IN THE HOLY PRECIOUS NAME OF JESUS CHRIST!!

jesus4life

AMEN :thumbsup
 
Those of us that believe and trust in the, "Dispensation of Grace," seem to get a "bum rap" when it comes to the idea of sin...Others have the impression that we, walk up during an altar call, say the sinners prayer then go on our merry way through life, sinning and doing whatever comes to mind at the moment, and just kick back and say to our self, "we said the prayer, and were forgiven, that's all that counts..." A "true" born again Christian has been placed into the "body of Christ" and been cleansed by the Spirit and is considered a "child of God." The Word states in 1 Corinthians 6:19--"What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?" A true Christian has been bought with a price, that being the "shed blood of Christ."

We are to consider our self, "dead to sin" and to no longer live in it...Because the Holy Spirit dwells in us and we are His temple...Once one is "born again Spiritually" the Spirit creates works/fruits in the believers life...We are no longer to be living for self and the desires of the flesh...But, are to walk in "newness of life, as a "child of God..."

We are still able to "choose" to sin" because we are still in the flesh however, if a person says they are "born again" and lives a "sinful lifestyle" and doesn't bring forth fruit/works then that would be a sign, they were "truly" never "born again" in the first place...

I agree completely. We will know them by their fruit...not by their works, but when we see evidence of the Holy Spirit's fruit. "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law."
 
One Lord, one faith, one baptism, -Ephesians 4:5

StoveBolts you eluded to this verse.

"One" Lord: Jesus Christ.

"One" faith: faith of Jesus Christ.

"One" baptism: by one Spirit into one body.

Webb explains that without water no remission that = hell

Paul explains in the body = forgiveness of sins & complete in Christ

Does the one baptism in Eph 4:5 mean that only one baptism counts?

If so that is the baptism we need.
 
I will graciously disagree.

In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, -Ephesians 1:13

We are sealed during baptism. Paul makes that clear.

I'll trust in Christ.

In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; -Ephesians 1:7

I'd rather be in the "Body of Christ".

There is no "either/or". Being baptized is entrance into the Church, the Body of Christ. You are avoiding Romans 6. It is THROUGH Baptism that we are united with the work of Christ on the cross!!!

Regards
 
Folks it still stands: shouting oh how I love Jesus and how I trust Him and all this talk about the fruit of the Spirit is for naught if not having done what Jesus commands in the way He commands and for the reason He commands, Matt. 7:l6-27.
 
We are sealed during baptism. Paul makes that clear.



There is no "either/or". Being baptized is entrance into the Church, the Body of Christ. You are avoiding Romans 6. It is THROUGH Baptism that we are united with the work of Christ on the cross!!!

Regards

I agree being Baptised is the entrance into the Church the Body of Christ!

For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. -1 Corinthians 12:13
 
Folks it still stands: shouting oh how I love Jesus and how I trust Him and all this talk about the fruit of the Spirit is for naught if not having done what Jesus commands in the way He commands and for the reason He commands, Matt. 7:l6-27.

You and I are in complete agreement.

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. -Matthew 7:21
 
One Lord, one faith, one baptism, -Ephesians 4:5

StoveBolts you eluded to this verse.

"One" Lord: Jesus Christ.

"One" faith: faith of Jesus Christ.

"One" baptism: by one Spirit into one body.

Does the one baptism in Eph 4:5 mean that only one baptism counts?

If so that is the baptism we need.

Here is the problem. You are separating the physical from the spiritual and by doing so, your missing the spiritual significance within a physical baptism. Sadly, many people do this, and when we do this, baptism gets watered down and the richness of baptism is lost.

You quoted this verse:
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Do you see that? "doeth the will". That's a call to action. Jesus even repeats this in the model prayer, "thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven" again, another call to action. And here is another call to action, "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost"

We are justified by faith, but we are called to action. As followers of Christ, we have a task and our faith is put to work. Simply put, when the faith of Abram was credited to him as righteousness (Genesis 15:6) it prepared him for action (Genesis 22:2) and his election was made sure.

By faith, we are called into action. We are called to die to our selves and be raised into the newness of Christ. Baptism serves that purpose, thus "Baptism now saves you" and if Jesus command us to baptize, then there has to be a call to action to become baptized, and it's normative that this is the first act of obedience to Christ, just like the baptism of Jesus was the beginning of his ministry.

And when we look at that baptism, it is to be done with a clear conscience of the believer because his heart has been pricked. It's a time for rejoicing because it's a baptism for the remission of all sins, and the baptized person is given assurance through his baptism that all of his sins have been forgiven, and he is also given the assurance that he will receive the Holy Spirit. But it all starts with faith, and that faith is called into action.

Again, you can't separate the physical from the spiritual because God's salvation is holistic, not just spiritual.
 
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