Do You Support Capital Punishment? (Death For Certain Crimes)

[JAG ..]

This issue is controversial. There are reasonable arguments both pro and con.

Here are some of my thoughts on the Death Penalty.

I tend to be against it because we have executed innocent people several times.
And there is no un-doing that. Dead is dead and cannot be undone.

Life in prison, or other shorter prison sentences, allows the possibility that innocent
people, later proven to be innocent, can be allowed to at least have some kind of
life restored to them.

The Death Penalty can be, and has been, the state snuffing out the life of innocent
human beings. So yes I am against the possibility of that occurring.

I do understand very well the arguments for the Death Penalty. And I understand the
emotions behind those who support the Death Penalty. I understand what a horrible
crime can do to a family who has to live with memories of some killer who was
convicted of murdering in cold blood their loved ones.

But suppose the "murderer" was innocent?

And new evidence proved beyond any doubt that he was totally innocent of the crime
that he was convicted of committing. And the state convicted this innocent man and
snuffed out his life.

What about forgiveness? . . .

Matthew 6:14-15
This verse has to mean something, doesn't it?
"If you forgive other people when they sin against you, your Heavenly Father
will also forgive you. But if you do NOT forgive others their sins, your Father
will NOT forgive your sins."___The Lord Jesus

Question: If someone murdered your loved one, would it not be more in keeping
with Matthew 6:14-15, for you to desire that they be given time in prison to repent
of their crime and their sin against you, and come to know the Lord Jesus as their
Savior?

_______________


I used to be all for the death penalty back in my younger days, but as I got older and
became more empathetic and sympathetic with the human condition, I lost my
"blood lust" and started to desire 2nd and 3rd chances for all human beings.

Prison sentences do in fact offer 2nd and 3rd chances for evil men who make
serious major mistakes. Some of them become Christians in prison. And some is
enough, isn't it?

There are several very successful Christian Prison Ministries that do in fact successfully
preach the gospel to prison inmates and many of them are converted to Christianity
and faith in the Lord Jesus as their Savior.

But again I do understand the craving that some folks have for the death penalty.
I used to feel the same way.

There was a time when I loved the "Rambo thingy" -- you know where they start off showing you the bad guys doing awful things to the good guys, so that the audience builds up a desire to see the bad guys experience a horrible gruesome death. And the bloodier the better!

The last Rambo movie I saw, Old Rambo literally gutted the bad guy like one would slaughter a hog --- and the audience loved it and cheered. I have personally gotten away from that type of blood lust --- even for the truly bad guys. I say give them prison sentences so they can at least have a chance to change and repent and come to believe in the Lord Jesus as their Savior.

_____

Thought For Today:

"Such is the nature of evil. Out there in the vast ignorance
of the world it festers and spreads. A shadow that grows in
the dark. A sleepless malice as black as the oncoming
wall of night. So it ever was. So will it always be. In time
all foul things come forth." __ Thranduil, The Elven King
of Mirkwood

 

[The Light]

Interesting topic Jag. I tend to agree with much of what you stated. For me, thee death penalty should be reserved for a very minimal number of scenarios where guilt is unquestionably established and the people guilty is a danger to society if he or she would be allowed to live.
I am not a big advocate of all things punitive in general. I believe we oftentimes seek to punish as opposed to fix and that ends up burdening our financial systems without reducing criminality or making us safer. It really bothers me when someone that has caused harm accidentally and is clearly not much of a threat to people going forward gets sentenced to prison for something they can't undo. It's like society has a blood-lust for vengeance as opposed to a heart for forgiveness.

 

[JAG ..]

Interesting topic Jag. I tend to agree with much of what you stated. For me, thee death penalty should be reserved for a very minimal number of scenarios where guilt is unquestionably established and the people guilty is a danger to society if he or she would be allowed to live.
I am not a big advocate of all things punitive in general. I believe we oftentimes seek to punish as opposed to fix and that ends up burdening our financial systems without reducing criminality or making us safer. It really bothers me when someone that has caused harm accidentally and is clearly not much of a threat to people going forward gets sentenced to prison for something they can't undo. It's like society has a blood-lust for vengeance as opposed to a heart for forgiveness.

The Light,
Thanks for your interesting contributory comments and for reading my Opening Post.
I truly appreciated your comments and I agree with you.
_____________

By the way, to the thread:

Does anybody remember Karla Faye Tucker?

Start quote.
Karla Faye Tucker (November 18, 1959 – February 3, 1998) was an American woman sentenced to death for killing two people with a pickaxe during a burglary. She was the first woman to be executed in the United States since Velma Barfield in 1984, and the first in Texas since Chipita Rodriguez in 1863.
End quote.

Karla Faye Tucker became a true born again glowing Christian while in prison and had an amazing testimony for the Lord Jesus and for His mercy and grace.

If you are unfamiliar with the heart-warming story of Karla Faye Tucker, you can go to You Tube and pull up numerous videos of Karla Faye giving her testimony of how she came to know the Lord Jesus as her Savior. These videos will truly warm your heart.

 

[Truthfrees]

This issue is controversial. There are reasonable arguments both pro and con.

Here are some of my thoughts on the Death Penalty.

I tend to be against it because we have executed innocent people several times.
And there is no un-doing that. Dead is dead and cannot be undone.

Life in prison, or other shorter prison sentences, allows the possibility that innocent
people, later proven to be innocent, can be allowed to at least have some kind of
life restored to them.

The Death Penalty can be, and has been, the state snuffing out the life of innocent
human beings. So yes I am against the possibility of that occurring.

if there were 2 or more eye witnesses to a capital crime like the bible says there should be there would be no mistakes

they did a study after they abolished the death penalty and the killers said they never would have killed if the death penalty was still in force -

i think God knew His business better than we do when He instituted the death penalty for certain crimes

 

[The Light]

eye witnesses to a capital crime like the bible says there should be there would be no mistakes

Eyewitness testimony is often unreliable and flawed for various reasons and should not be the be all end all.

Why are eyewitnesses unreliable?

Eyewitness testimony can play a big part in a criminal trial. The problem is that eyewitness accounts aren't always accurate. What makes them so faulty?

people.howstuffworks.com

He instituted the death penalty for certain crimes

Indeed he did, however, human error can compromise who gets convicted so we must not be too hasty.

 

[Truthfrees]

Eyewitness testimony is often unreliable and flawed for various reasons and should not be the be all end all.

Why are eyewitnesses unreliable?

Eyewitness testimony can play a big part in a criminal trial. The problem is that eyewitness accounts aren't always accurate. What makes them so faulty?

people.howstuffworks.com

Indeed he did, however, human error can compromise who gets convicted so we must not be too hasty.

agreed - that is why scripture is the best guideline - otherwise things go awry

 

[JAG ..]

if there were 2 or more eye witnesses to a capital crime like the bible says there should be there would be no mistakes

they did a study after they abolished the death penalty and the killers said they never would have killed if the death penalty was still in force -

i think God knew His business better than we do when He instituted the death penalty for certain crimes

"i think God knew His business better than we do when He instituted the death penalty for certain crimes."__Truthfrees

My view is that God has not instituted the Death Penalty for we who are now living under the guidelines and truths of the New Testament.

Here are some of my reasons for holding this position.

New Testament:
(1) To the best of my knowledge the New Testament does not command the Death Penalty for any crime. There is no verse in the New Testament that specifically says that the Death Penalty is either right or wrong, or should or should not be instituted.

Romans 13 says that the authorities (the government) have been established by God and that the authorities do not "bear the sword for nothing." (Romans 13:4) Paul does NOT explain what he means when he said they do not "bear the sword for nothing."

My view is that it is impossible to demonstrate with certainty that Paul was saying that the authorities have God's approval to impose the Death Penalty merely because Paul said that the authorities did not "bear the sword for nothing."

They do not "bear the sword for nothing" can easily mean ONLY that the authorities have God's approval to punish evil-doers. The text does NOT say what kind of punishment they have God's approval to inflict upon evil-doers. One can speculate about this, but there is NOT a clear and certain word from God on this issue in Romans chapter 13. Its all going to be merely personal speculation and personal opinions.

So if you interpret they do not "bear the sword for nothing" to be a specific reference to applying the Death Penalty you do that without any clear and certain Biblical warrant for that interpretation. Also, to be consistent, you would have to hold that the authorities had to use an actual sword when they applied the Death Penalty. The text says "sword" it does NOT say "lethal injection" or "gas chamber" or "hanging" etc.

So the question is raised. What does Romans 13 say about what killing method the authorities all allowed by God to use when they kill a person convicted of a Capital Crime? My view is that Romans 13 says nothing about the method to be used and therefore says nothing about the Death Penalty.

Old Testament:
(2) I am reasonably certain that no one would appeal to the Old Testament for their authority to hold that God does approve of the Death Penalty for we who are now living under the guidelines and truths of the New Testament. Why not? Because those Old Testament Death Penalty laws obviously do NOT apply to us today.

Here is why they don't apply to us today:

(A) "Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death" Exodus 21:17

(B) If anyone fails to confine a dangerous bull known to gore and the owner has been warned and fails to keep the bull penned up, then the text says that the owner of the bull "must be put to death." (The passage does allow the man to redeem his life with a money payment under certain conditions.) Exodus 21:28-30

(C) "Whoever does any work on the Sabbath Day must be put to death." Exodus 31:12

Summing up.
(1) The New Testament does NOT have a clear and certain verse where God has instituted the Death Penalty for we who live under the guidelines and truths of the New Testament.

(2) If you appeal to the Old Testament, then to be consistent, you would be forced to advocate the Death Penalty for "anyone who curses his father or mother" Exodus 21:17 and whoever "does any work on the Sabbath Day" Exodus 31:12 Advocating this would be totally irrational.

Death by stoning:

Leviticus 24:16 says that anyone who blasphemes the name of God must be put to death and that the entire assembly must stone him to death.

It would be unthinkable for we Christians here in the 22nd century to advocate and support the United States Government taking people who blaspheme God's name to a place where they would then be stoned to death.

____________

Truthfrees, I can and do understand and sympathize with your position on the Death Penalty. I fully understand that your intentions are to uphold and defend your conception of justice.

 

[Truthfrees]

Truthfrees, I can and do understand and sympathize with your position on the Death Penalty. I fully understand that your intentions are to uphold and defend your conception of justice.

i see God's wisdom in all he said - science catches up with God's words even today -

 

[JohnDB]

There are pro's and Cons on both sides of this issue.
I've heard them all over 50+ years.

And I've come to the conclusion that this is more a political decision than anything...

As a result I support our Government's decision... whoever that may be. Because that's their job. Not mine. My opinion is not going to be valid or viable because I simply don't believe that I have the knowledge to make such a decision.

So....
I simply don't care. I'm not doing anything, nor will I, that will cause anyone to charge me with a capital offense.

It's politics...and I just don't care to hear or involve myself in such rhetoric.

 

[jasonc]

There are pro's and Cons on both sides of this issue.
I've heard them all over 50+ years.

And I've come to the conclusion that this is more a political decision than anything...

As a result I support our Government's decision... whoever that may be. Because that's their job. Not mine. My opinion is not going to be valid or viable because I simply don't believe that I have the knowledge to make such a decision.

So....
I simply don't care. I'm not doing anything, nor will I, that will cause anyone to charge me with a capital offense.

It's politics...and I just don't care to hear or involve myself in such rhetoric.

Since I,fall under ucmj ,still can be punished under it ,the stupidity of it ,plenty of it .I,have to follow should they recall me or I,post a ,or act outside the boundaries of the ucmj.

I can't support the enemies of the u.s. as easily as a a civilian .I have less rights,in some cases ,ucmj does allow the death penalty ,

Run during battle ,shot then and their ,spy?yup no,trial ,shot,awol,in theatre they can execute you for that ,its rare now but during ww2,nam.it was done.

 

[jasonc]

Acts 5.annias and saphira lied to,the Holy,Ghost,the Holy,Ghost using Peter then,slew them.if it was grace and no,more death for anyone why Did God kill those two?

In India the punishment for rape varies ,stoning to fines,and simple sit ups.yeah that's justice.

 

[jasonc]

The protector in me,I support the death penalty .its never a perfect system,I,get that .however ,letting them go early ,not cool.seen it .

 

[Tertul]

I tend to be against it because we have executed innocent people several times.
And there is no un-doing that. Dead is dead and cannot be undone.

I've not heard of an innocent person being executed in the last half century. What information do you have that I don't have?

Suppose you're right, so what? You'd prefer 100 innocent people to be murdered and another 100 innocent people to be convicted of murder and serve long prison sentences than to have one innocent person executed.

A serious administration of the death penalty along with real anti-crime policy would dramatically reduce the number of murders and correspondingly reduce the chances of an innocent person being convicted.

Your wisdom goes against God's wisdom. God thought the testimony of two witnesses is sufficient to execute someone. But, you think no amount of witnesses, video, DNA, confessions, etc. produces enough certainly for you of guilt to reduce the risk of executing an innocent man.

I have a solution for your concern. We could only execute people with a history of convictions for violent crimes. So, if a person is innocent of their last crime, they're still guilty of other violent crimes, and therefor are not really innocent.

In truth, opposition to the death penalty stems from hatred of innocent people. It's part of the liberal's general opposition to treating criminals as criminals as opposed to heroes (e.g. Trayvon Martin and Ahmaud Arbery) or victims of society (society forces them to be violent).

 

[EJStevens65]

Acts 5.annias and saphira lied to,the Holy,Ghost,the Holy,Ghost using Peter then,slew them.if it was grace and no,more death for anyone why Did God kill those two?

In India the punishment for rape varies ,stoning to fines,and simple sit ups.yeah that's justice.

I would agree and remember the Apostle Paul did at first sentence a man to death for having his father’s wife, I Corinthians 5:1-5. Of course he showed repentance and was forgiven, II Corinthians 5:3-11.

I view Roman 13:4-5, differently and understand that ...not only for wrath, in verse 5; is referring to him baring the sword in verse 4. Peter also mentions in I Peter 2:13-17, that governors are assigned by God for punishment of the evil doers, v. 14.

 

[humble soul]

I wonder if some prisoners prefer the death penalty to life in prison. Maybe I would. I mean some scenarios of prison sound like Hell. Give them a choice?

 

[humble soul]

The idea of watching a prisoner being executed sounds bizarre. No matter how evil his crimes. Do they still allow that in some States?

 

[humble soul]

Prisons overcrowded? Ok just broaden the criteria for death penalty. Easy solved.

 

[Tertul]

I wonder if some prisoners prefer the death penalty to life in prison. Maybe I would. I mean some scenarios of prison sound like Hell. Give them a choice?

Convicted innocent people cannot get back the days of their lives spent in prison. And, for especially the innocent, prison can be hellish. I'd much rather take my chances in a place that dishes out the death penalty biblically than a place like Chicago where thousands of innocent people are shot every year but the government is so "concerned about the innocent" that not one murderer has any chance of being executed.

People who oppose the death penalty of the blood of the innocent on their hands.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

I see that the NT teaches God created three institutions, the church, the family and the government. So if the government (servant of God) decides the death penalty is suitable for a particular crime as murder, then would I be fighting against God if I am against the death penalty, cf Romans 13:4?

Acts 25:11 "For if I be an offender, or have committed any thing worthy of death, I refuse not to die: but if there be none of these things whereof these accuse me, no man may deliver me unto them. I appeal unto Caesar. "

Paul here is saying some crimes are "worthy of death".

"Pilate therefore saith unto him, Speakest thou not unto me? knowest thou not that I have power to release thee, and have power to crucify thee? Jesus answered him, Thou wouldest have no power against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath greater sin." Christ admits Pilate had the power to put Him to death, but Christ's point was that power, authority to put one to death came from God and not Pilate (not man).

One can be forgiven of their sins but one must still face the consequence of their actions. Jesus could forgive the thief on the cross of his sins but that thief must still face the consequence of the sins he committed, that being a death penalty. I do not find Jesus condemning the Romans for putting this thief to death even though he had been forgiven of his sins by Christ. God's word teaches men on the consequences of wrong doing..."the wages of sin is death". (There is a certain forbidden topic here that tries to get around the Bible's teachings on 'actions have consequences' but I will leave that topic alone.)

 

[JAG ..]

People who oppose the death penalty of the blood of the innocent on their hands.

"People who oppose the death penalty of the blood of the innocent on their hands."___Tertul

Tertul,
That's a fascinating perspective.

I have a question. Please feel free to ignore the question if you do not wish to reply.

I tend to be against the Death Penalty because we have executed innocent people several times. And there is no un-doing that. Dead is dead and cannot be undone.

Life in prison, or other shorter prison sentences, allows the possibility that innocent
people, later proven to be innocent, can be allowed to at least have some kind of
life restored to them.

The Death Penalty can be, and has been, the state snuffing out the life of innocent
human beings. So yes I am against the possibility of that occurring.

I do understand very well the arguments for the Death Penalty. And I understand the
emotions behind those who support the Death Penalty. I understand what a horrible crime can do to a family who has to live with memories of some killer who was
convicted of murdering in cold blood their loved ones.

But suppose the "murderer" was innocent?
And new evidence proved beyond any doubt that he was totally innocent of the crime
that he was convicted of committing. And the state convicted this innocent man and
snuffed out his life.

And what about forgiveness? . . .

This verse has to mean something, doesn't it?

"If you forgive other people when they sin against you, your Heavenly Father​

will also forgive you. But if you do NOT forgive others their sins, your Father

will NOT forgive your sins."___The Lord Jesus Matthew 6:14-15

Question: If someone murdered your loved one, would it not be more in keeping
with Matthew 6:14-15 for you to desire that they be given a life sentence in prison
and thereby an opportunity to repent of their crime and their sin against you, and
come to know the Lord Jesus as their Savior?​

A significant number of prison inmates DO become true born again Christians. There are several Christian Prison Ministries that are quite successful and have many converts to the Lord Jesus -- not possible if they are dead.

Back to forgiveness . . .

As a Christian how could you NOT forgive them in light of the clear and certain statement in Matthew 6:14-15, and in forgiving them, desire that they have an opportunity to change and repent? How could you not feel that way towards them? --- in light of Matthew 6:14-15 ?

Read it one more time:

"If you forgive other people when they sin against you, your Heavenly Father
will also forgive you. But if you do NOT forgive others their sins, your Father
will NOT forgive your sins."___The Lord Jesus Matthew 6:14-15

Tertul, my question to you is how do you interpret and apply Matthew 6:14-15 with regard to the Death Penalty?